<!--QuoteBegin-ChkChkChk+Feb 24 2004, 04:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ChkChkChk @ Feb 24 2004, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> turret factory =10 res electirfy=30 res infantry portal=20 res
I think if you drop anything else ontop of this, you're spending too much res...40 res is just too much like others have said. this is already 60 res leaving you with 40, enough for 2-3 nodes... However if you use 2x pack of mines you have 60 res left over, enough for 4 rt's! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> or 2 rts and armor 1 ! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I can understand a desire to keep your newb marines alive at the spawn, but if they can't take out the skulks in their own base, your already screwed. If you find a regular server like I have, this technique is just wasting yours and everybody elses time.
There are plenty of other ways of using your res, just read this thread over once. Next time any of you guys that use this tech comm, just once try saving your res and see what happens. If your a good comm you should be able to quickly act if indeed you still want to use this technique.
Here is a quick example of how one comm dominated in ns_eclipse. I play on the [NAR] server as Goldensilver and Iceling was commin. Instead of the TF, he used my rule of placing 2 ips and one amoury. Then it was time to hunt out all res nodes. I mean he locked down just about every node in the map then he got an arms lab and other upgrades. By using his res for res at the beginning, instead of upgrades, he was guarenteed a nice flow of res through the entire match. We had the game in the bag in 12:45 seconds. And the aliens we're bad players at all, just they couldn't compete with all the res we had.
Anyways, this thread has still be an interesting read.
Uh, locked down? Like a tf and turrets at every rt? That won't work at all since it'll cost a fortune, and it'll take forever to get all that res back. 2 fades will easily take them down, and you've just lost a lot of res.
Unless by locked down you mean dropping the rt and defending it with your marines... in which case, nevermind.
<!--QuoteBegin-Last.+Feb 25 2004, 03:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Last. @ Feb 25 2004, 03:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You'd need to drop the armslab... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nope. Arms lab doesn't go in my initial build pattern. You don't need it right away. Lvl1 ups are fast enough that you can afford to wait until after you've got one hive, and the nodes on the way to it. By that time, you have enough res to drop the lab and obs, and research phase tech all in one go, and you should have at least one node zapped, with another one reasearching it. If you've done the sensible thing and split your marines up in the beginning, you'll usually have a hive in under three minutes, perhaps more like two, and having all these things at the two minute mark is making good time.
<!--QuoteBegin-ProdigyXL+Feb 26 2004, 04:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ProdigyXL @ Feb 26 2004, 04:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can understand a desire to keep your newb marines alive at the spawn, but if they can't take out the skulks in their own base, your already screwed. If you find a regular server like I have, this technique is just wasting yours and everybody elses time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->What are they doing in base? Baseguards are for comms that don't have the good sense to electrify their TF. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here is a quick example of how one comm dominated in ns_eclipse. I play on the [NAR] server as Goldensilver and Iceling was commin. Instead of the TF, he used my rule of placing 2 ips and one amoury. Then it was time to hunt out all res nodes. I mean he locked down just about every node in the map then he got an arms lab and other upgrades. By using his res for res at the beginning, instead of upgrades, he was guarenteed a nice flow of res through the entire match. We had the game in the bag in 12:45 seconds. And the aliens we're bad players at all, just they couldn't compete with all the res we had. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This works. I'm not denying that. But it's very risky, too much for my style and pace. I used to use a similar plan, and all too many times I lost the game entirely because my baseguards got jumped, and I had no other defense.
007, if all they have are skulks electrifying the tf is completely unnecessary. You don't even need a baseguard, but I guess having one will help. If the skulks get past the baseguard, the mines will take care of them. And if they don't, jump out of your chair and finish the weakened skulks off. They'll probably run into a mine as they try to dodge your bullets.
I don't believe that comms who play defensively(locking down areas with turrets etc) could win against a good alien team. <b>Especially</b> if they do it early in the game.You're wasting so much res on turrets and electrification, when they could be spent on upgrades and guns. And tell me, what use is locking down a hive in the beginning of the game? Its really only viable if you're doing a 2 hives lockdown, otherwise its a waste of res. And even then, doing a 2 hives lockdown means all your res is going into electrification and turrets, and not upgrades. If the fades ever come, they will slaughter your marines, you <b>will</b> lose a hive eventually, its almost inevitable. And once the aliens claim a second hive, they will easily take back the third one. Most of the time if you invest a lot of res on static defense, its almost guaranteed that you will lose it, so its usually not worth it. I guess if all you're doing is dropping a pg next to an electrified rt it would actually be less risky and won't slow down your tech as much.
So to anybody who relies a lot on electrification and static defense, try to make your strategy more offensive. The key to beating the aliens is to keep up the pressure, constantly attack their RTs and their hive. Constantly check to see if a 2nd hive is going up, and if it is sneak up a phase gate and lmg(or shotgun) it down. Instead of electrification and turrets, try spending your res on upgrades, medpacks, and shotguns when the fades arrive.
I'm not saying the other way doesn't work. All I'm saying is that this way also works, and for me, it works very well. If my team listens to me, it simply does not fail on the maps I enjoy comming.
Even with good players on both sides, it's a good idea to lock down ONE area on the map. Considering lockdowns are only effective against skulks, gorges, and lerks, there's no point in building more than 4 turrets and a phase - that's plenty for these lifeforms and with new hitboxes/health levels, no amount of turrets will stop even a fade these days. 65 res (95 if you build it around a elec RT, which I usually do just to prevent blind spots from appearing on the TF) isn't much in the long run, and it means you have two points to attack from. The locking down should be done early as it's only really effective early on - use the advantage as much as you can to control the nodes both near your base and near your outpost. By being able to control 4-5 nodes naturally, you can pump your upgrades quick so you can have 2/1 or 1/2 ups and a few shotties on the field when the fades arrive.
The only reason to put turrets in more than one place is if it's a ridiculously good place to put them (Cargo on Tanith).
Pressuring offensively can work but not all the time - you have the combat disadvantage until you get armor 1, and you need a little extra help to control res nodes until you start the upgrades.
Since I've never touched a game, I can only talk about publics. Put the Elec RT+1 IP is just about the safest starting strategy. Unless I know theres someone around that can place mines well enough, and incidentially noone to hump the armory required to drop mines, I see no real other options (except the outright relocate to a hive).
So while I avoid exact build orders (and usually forget a few things, big deal <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ), 1TF/Elec/1 IP and a quick rush for as much res as possible works quite well. Important RTs (Hive) get elec, and the first guy to die gets the honors of building Obs/Armory/Armslab. Its a decent motivator not to die <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Defending the base before (at least) the 5 minute mark is an UTTER waste of res.
You want base defense for pubs.... OK, simple: Get two IP's spread them out nicely so that both are visible from the other to make spawn camping harder for just one skulk. Then dont let you marines all walk off in the same direction from the spawn, send them out in all possible directions, if the team sent down one "exit" is wiped out, determine the strenght of the attackers, and if deemed neccesary call back some rines to repel them. This allows you to expand quickly, without risk of skulks getting behind you lines.
Affraid of that nasty vent leading to you base? Buy a pack of mines, this covers it without spending a third of you budget.
<!--QuoteBegin-Koenig+Feb 29 2004, 01:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Koenig @ Feb 29 2004, 01:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Affraid of that nasty vent leading to you base? Buy a pack of mines, this covers it without spending a third of you budget.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Congratulations, now you've spent 60 res.
Defending the base before (at least) the 5 minute mark is an UTTER waste of res.
You want base defense for pubs.... OK, simple: Get two IP's spread them out nicely so that both are visible from the other to make spawn camping harder for just one skulk. Then dont let you marines all walk off in the same direction from the spawn, send them out in all possible directions, if the team sent down one "exit" is wiped out, determine the strenght of the attackers, and if deemed neccesary call back some rines to repel them. This allows you to expand quickly, without risk of skulks getting behind you lines.
Affraid of that nasty vent leading to you base? Buy a pack of mines, this covers it without spending a third of you budget. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it really depends on what you mean by defence...
Build ur tf at base if it allows you to be more confortable to expand. esp if ur getting pressure at spawn. But 3 turrets are better than elec. Because 3 turrets + spawning marines are better than elec tf + spawning marines.
But i agree that this shouldnt be done first. Maybe after you have 5 res you can go tf happy. Just remember offence is the best defence. 3-3 marines will kick the shizen out of some fades. But 4 elec res points and a turret farm will get raped.
anyway I disagree that marines are smart enough on pubs to go back to marine start when u ask them too. They are way to stupid or lazy. Sometimes im shouting down the mic placing a way point and then get out and start shooting and their like "Where's the comm? I need a med pack!" This leeds to mass flaming and is not pretty.
There is no reason to ever trust pub marines will goto the waypoints, even if your losing your ips. Mines are the cheapest/easiest solution for early defending base, although having a tf to elec. certain nodes is nice.
<!--QuoteBegin-Benaiah+Mar 2 2004, 04:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Benaiah @ Mar 2 2004, 04:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Build ur tf at base if it allows you to be more confortable to expand. esp if ur getting pressure at spawn. But 3 turrets are better than elec. Because 3 turrets + spawning marines are better than elec tf + spawning marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This relies on spawning marines. Before I started consistently setting base defense, I lost games because there was a group of skulks sitting in base during a stretch where I had very few people dead, and when a few finally did come trickling in, they got spawn camped.
I just commed a game on ns_agora I think its the name of it. I hate that map more than anything. theres not enough open rooms.....anyways I used a elect TF in my newly relocated base. why? cause they kept rushing with skulks to it since it was near thier hive. I had two ips around a TF. and I wasn't planning on making any defence. but after a rush severly crippling me. we spend the next 1 min defending against a bombardment of like 3-6 skulks. I start to elect the TF since I couldn't get any turrets up. it ultimatly won us teh game. cause i was able to keep my reens alive long enough, and secure to actualy all spawn in. then I set up two turrets way on the outside just to realy deture the same thing again.
Now look, ill say it again. DONT WASTE REZ ON BASE DEFENCE. its pointless. but in the situtation I was in. I just had to be done.
Comms who follow a script will likely lose alot more games than nessicary
the only thing I do alot of. is just making one IP
on a side not, i dont make an amory till I get like 3-5 rez nodes. cause, reens dont need that much ammo in the beggining. and now that ammo is only 1 rez. its better to have em out an about that humping the armory.
besides when you finaly drop it. they apresiate it more
Unless you have alot of decent marines and/or alot of bad aliens, you will never control the map without upgrades.
Where I play aliens often have the second hive and fades going up around 3 minutes. If you spend your money on electricity instead of upgrades you are now screwed.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Mar 1 2004, 11:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Mar 1 2004, 11:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Koenig+Feb 29 2004, 01:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Koenig @ Feb 29 2004, 01:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Affraid of that nasty vent leading to you base? Buy a pack of mines, this covers it without spending a third of you budget.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Congratulations, now you've spent 60 res. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> and so what if it is? would you rather spend 80 res to get an elec tf?
When I used to comm pubs (I rarely do anymore because im used to all my marines listening) I never had any base defence, i dropped IP, armory, arms, upgraded to armor one, and capped all the nodes on the map. The aliens never could take down all my nodes, and we rarely saw fades.
Comments
electirfy=30 res
infantry portal=20 res
I think if you drop anything else ontop of this, you're spending too much res...40 res is just too much like others have said. this is already 60 res leaving you with 40, enough for 2-3 nodes...
However if you use 2x pack of mines you have 60 res left over, enough for 4 rt's! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
or 2 rts and armor 1 ! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Why yes, yes you do.
There are plenty of other ways of using your res, just read this thread over once. Next time any of you guys that use this tech comm, just once try saving your res and see what happens. If your a good comm you should be able to quickly act if indeed you still want to use this technique.
Here is a quick example of how one comm dominated in ns_eclipse. I play on the [NAR] server as Goldensilver and Iceling was commin. Instead of the TF, he used my rule of placing 2 ips and one amoury. Then it was time to hunt out all res nodes. I mean he locked down just about every node in the map then he got an arms lab and other upgrades. By using his res for res at the beginning, instead of upgrades, he was guarenteed a nice flow of res through the entire match. We had the game in the bag in 12:45 seconds. And the aliens we're bad players at all, just they couldn't compete with all the res we had.
Anyways, this thread has still be an interesting read.
Unless by locked down you mean dropping the rt and defending it with your marines... in which case, nevermind.
Nope. Arms lab doesn't go in my initial build pattern. You don't need it right away. Lvl1 ups are fast enough that you can afford to wait until after you've got one hive, and the nodes on the way to it. By that time, you have enough res to drop the lab and obs, and research phase tech all in one go, and you should have at least one node zapped, with another one reasearching it. If you've done the sensible thing and split your marines up in the beginning, you'll usually have a hive in under three minutes, perhaps more like two, and having all these things at the two minute mark is making good time.
This works. I'm not denying that. But it's very risky, too much for my style and pace. I used to use a similar plan, and all too many times I lost the game entirely because my baseguards got jumped, and I had no other defense.
I don't believe that comms who play defensively(locking down areas with turrets etc) could win against a good alien team. <b>Especially</b> if they do it early in the game.You're wasting so much res on turrets and electrification, when they could be spent on upgrades and guns. And tell me, what use is locking down a hive in the beginning of the game? Its really only viable if you're doing a 2 hives lockdown, otherwise its a waste of res. And even then, doing a 2 hives lockdown means all your res is going into electrification and turrets, and not upgrades. If the fades ever come, they will slaughter your marines, you <b>will</b> lose a hive eventually, its almost inevitable. And once the aliens claim a second hive, they will easily take back the third one. Most of the time if you invest a lot of res on static defense, its almost guaranteed that you will lose it, so its usually not worth it. I guess if all you're doing is dropping a pg next to an electrified rt it would actually be less risky and won't slow down your tech as much.
So to anybody who relies a lot on electrification and static defense, try to make your strategy more offensive. The key to beating the aliens is to keep up the pressure, constantly attack their RTs and their hive. Constantly check to see if a 2nd hive is going up, and if it is sneak up a phase gate and lmg(or shotgun) it down. Instead of electrification and turrets, try spending your res on upgrades, medpacks, and shotguns when the fades arrive.
The only reason to put turrets in more than one place is if it's a ridiculously good place to put them (Cargo on Tanith).
Pressuring offensively can work but not all the time - you have the combat disadvantage until you get armor 1, and you need a little extra help to control res nodes until you start the upgrades.
So while I avoid exact build orders (and usually forget a few things, big deal <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ), 1TF/Elec/1 IP and a quick rush for as much res as possible works quite well. Important RTs (Hive) get elec, and the first guy to die gets the honors of building Obs/Armory/Armslab. Its a decent motivator not to die <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Defending the base before (at least) the 5 minute mark is an UTTER waste of res.
You want base defense for pubs.... OK, simple: Get two IP's spread them out nicely so that both are visible from the other to make spawn camping harder for just one skulk. Then dont let you marines all walk off in the same direction from the spawn, send them out in all possible directions, if the team sent down one "exit" is wiped out, determine the strenght of the attackers, and if deemed neccesary call back some rines to repel them. This allows you to expand quickly, without risk of skulks getting behind you lines.
Affraid of that nasty vent leading to you base? Buy a pack of mines, this covers it without spending a third of you budget.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congratulations, now you've spent 60 res.
Defending the base before (at least) the 5 minute mark is an UTTER waste of res.
You want base defense for pubs.... OK, simple: Get two IP's spread them out nicely so that both are visible from the other to make spawn camping harder for just one skulk. Then dont let you marines all walk off in the same direction from the spawn, send them out in all possible directions, if the team sent down one "exit" is wiped out, determine the strenght of the attackers, and if deemed neccesary call back some rines to repel them. This allows you to expand quickly, without risk of skulks getting behind you lines.
Affraid of that nasty vent leading to you base? Buy a pack of mines, this covers it without spending a third of you budget. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it really depends on what you mean by defence...
Build ur tf at base if it allows you to be more confortable to expand. esp if ur getting pressure at spawn. But 3 turrets are better than elec. Because 3 turrets + spawning marines are better than elec tf + spawning marines.
But i agree that this shouldnt be done first. Maybe after you have 5 res you can go tf happy. Just remember offence is the best defence. 3-3 marines will kick the shizen out of some fades. But 4 elec res points and a turret farm will get raped.
anyway I disagree that marines are smart enough on pubs to go back to marine start when u ask them too. They are way to stupid or lazy. Sometimes im shouting down the mic placing a way point and then get out and start shooting and their like "Where's the comm? I need a med pack!"
This leeds to mass flaming and is not pretty.
I usually iether drop a pack of mines every now and then, or electrify an eventual TF, depending on my general tactic for the game....
Leaving your base with no defence is asking for it...
This relies on spawning marines. Before I started consistently setting base defense, I lost games because there was a group of skulks sitting in base during a stretch where I had very few people dead, and when a few finally did come trickling in, they got spawn camped.
Sometimes your guys can be too good, I guess...
I used a elect TF in my newly relocated base. why?
cause they kept rushing with skulks to it since it was near thier hive. I had two ips around a TF. and I wasn't planning on making any defence. but after a rush severly crippling me. we spend the next 1 min defending against a bombardment of like 3-6 skulks. I start to elect the TF since I couldn't get any turrets up. it ultimatly won us teh game. cause i was able to keep my reens alive long enough, and secure to actualy all spawn in.
then I set up two turrets way on the outside just to realy deture the same thing again.
Now look, ill say it again. DONT WASTE REZ ON BASE DEFENCE. its pointless. but in the situtation I was in. I just had to be done.
Comms who follow a script will likely lose alot more games than nessicary
the only thing I do alot of. is just making one IP
on a side not, i dont make an amory till I get like 3-5 rez nodes. cause, reens dont need that much ammo in the beggining. and now that ammo is only 1 rez. its better to have em out an about that humping the armory.
besides when you finaly drop it. they apresiate it more
Where I play aliens often have the second hive and fades going up around 3 minutes. If you spend your money on electricity instead of upgrades you are now screwed.
I read his first statement, and stopped there. No need to continue. Oh the irony.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congratulations, now you've spent 60 res. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
and so what if it is? would you rather spend 80 res to get an elec tf?