I've just got back from playing an awesome game with SC first. Combine a SC'ed up map with a pack of focused skulks who know what they're doing, and I think you'll find SC is 'teh win'
Played v2 just a moment ago. SC was actually more useful in it, thanks to the near-instant cloaking effect, and more viable than now. So, SC is actually worse than ever since 1.04... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Tails+Mar 5 2004, 03:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tails @ Mar 5 2004, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Played v2 just a moment ago. SC was actually more useful in it, thanks to the near-instant cloaking effect, and more viable than now. So, SC is actually worse than ever since 1.04... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sensories didn't have Focus as an upgrade. Focus = win.
i always thought if you use sensory you could gain more kills faster>more res>more hives>more winning>more hive defense>annoying as hell to the marine team.
So, here's a question. Is there anybody here in a clan that actually uses sensory first on a regular basis, or that even knows of a clan that does? I believe that sensory first <i>can</i> work, but only because marines aren't expecting it, and the comm is too slow in countering it. If the comm expects sensory first, it will never work. That is why it isn't a standard strat like DMS; instead, it is something thrown in for fun.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kaze+Mar 5 2004, 06:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kaze @ Mar 5 2004, 06:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We've tried a sensory 'rush' a few times, only to pretty much fail.
I believe if you're going to use SC's in a clan war, you would have to aim to win by a skulk rush within 5 mins. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or take map control with smart placement of the first 3 sensories and win the game with 3 hives.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kaze+Mar 5 2004, 04:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kaze @ Mar 5 2004, 04:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We've tried a sensory 'rush' a few times, only to pretty much fail.
I believe if you're going to use SC's in a clan war, you would have to aim to win by a skulk rush within 5 mins. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or keep the marines so contained that they don't get res nodes up or phases by your hives. Its pretty tough to kill marine start with only sens.
The 'problem' with Sensory first is it requires (gasp) teamwork. A team of random pubs will lose with Sensory. A team of pubs who work together with Sensory will have a good chance of winning. (As good as a DC first strat)
Sensory only sucks when the team sucks. DC first only allows those few indivudual players that <b>are</b> good to carry the rest of the team with them with a Regen Onos.
Hmm been awhile since I posted here... liked my NS-Combat a bit 2 much (sure its got some problems but meh) Sensory first is probaly not the greatest idea true but like marines if you do something like that first then you better have a damn good strategy to back it up (such as sensory oustide Marine Spawn and have some skulks pick the poor **** off) sensory could be a win but defense and movement are simplier more straightforward strategys plus they are sound the clarity gives skulks an edge (silenced skulk is also cool) but the main reason I make this post is just to say no to the idea of sensory stopping seige thats just silly sure we hate it when they seige our hive but come on you'd be **** if all they had to do was drop one sensory and then you couldnt seige (assuming you could get the seige base up)
Actually, there should always be counter-counter <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Yes, scan is limited, but how does that affect to placing obs to important location to keep it secure versus SC? If you have res, why shouldn't there be some way to use it for benefit? (More sc to counter obs, more obs to counter even more SC <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
I think that the underlying problem here is that the Aliens are purely offensive, whereas the Marines can win playing offensively or defensively. Because of their lack of adequate defenses, alot of their "defensive style" abilities tend to be criticized (Sensory & Offense chambers are weak mid-late game, the Hives are static, aliens have to have more res nodes to win and must therefore scatter defenses). I think that "fixing sensory" is only 1 step toward making things alittle more balanced and nolinear gameplay wise per se.
Personnaly I think that Sensory chambers should be cheapper, maybe 5 res. Their only are good If you cover most of the map with them quickly and early in the game. Cheapper chambers is one way of making that more practical.
BTW, I may be off alittle as I havent been able to play any 3.0. My college blocked the HL and Steam Ports #'s as they are "redoing" the network and need to minimize throughput. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sensory is most definatly viable. The pandas won alien round against us using it affectively. All you have to do is use 2 focus fades to control the map while the second hive goes up, and at that point focus/cara fades just don't die and can control the entire map for you. Third hive and onos for win.
However, I think my point still stands. A team can use DMS every round and have a good chance of winning (assuming the teams are even). However, if a team uses SDM every round, so the marines expect it, then an observatory will be dropped with the initial base setup, and any sensory chamber placed near marine start will be killed quickly, as soon as marines know there is one in the area they will scan and find it.
Then again, I could be wrong. I'm sure there are successful clans that use DMS <i>every</i> time (or maybe I am wrong here). What I am wondering is if there are clans that use SMD or SDM <i>every</i> time (so marines expect it ahead of time), and still have success.
Scent of Fear can PREVENT gorges getting INTO a Jam
And Focus can help experienced gorges become Battle Gorges (tho... with spit reduced to a mere 25 dmg normally, 50 dmg per spit )every 2 second's) isn't all that great... put the normal spit back to 50 plz!
*thinks* If they put SPIKES back on the lerk... they did 20 dmg per spike at around 4 spikes a second.. imagine a FOCUS lerk!\
Sensory first is just not a great pub strat, no doubt. The reason is that on pubs, the marines generally always get to fortify at least one hive and usually start seiging another, and sensory just isn't very good for the offensive manuevers you need to respond.
I agree that Defense isn't anywhere near as useful at the start of the game (before shotguns, before you have higher lifeforms you want to keep healed and alive). But it is utterly essential in the mid/late games, and especially on pubs. So even if it isn't important as a first chamber, it almost has to go first to ensure that it will be there later on.
Movement is very very important as a second chamber too, because almost always the game at this point involves defending a hive: and that means getting there FAST. You don't have movement up when the rines start seiging your second hive, you're dead.
Sensory is fun as heck. But it only has one ability that's useful for combat and attacking embedded positions, and given the importance of the other two chamber... Until something in this line up changes, you just aren't going to see it on pubs until the third hive: which, unforuntately, is when it's LEAST fun.
Now, get a good team together that coordinates, and you can find a way to exploit almost any chamber order. But if you care about breaking up DMS in pub servers, then you'd need to do something drastic. Plain and simple. Either that or make the chamber order random, instead of gorge's choice.
<!--QuoteBegin-Buggy+Mar 7 2004, 12:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Buggy @ Mar 7 2004, 12:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I love the cartoon .... aside from that, I laugh and pop the champagne bottle when i hear the aliens dropped sensories. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Come play on The Linuxmonster. We'll show you some creative uses for that bottle <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
That is the single best idiea I have heard in these forums in ages.
Marines would have to GL spam the chambers before sieging. I think this would add a lot of strategy to the game.
Sensories didn't have Focus as an upgrade. Focus = win.
I believe if you're going to use SC's in a clan war, you would have to aim to win by a skulk rush within 5 mins.
I believe if you're going to use SC's in a clan war, you would have to aim to win by a skulk rush within 5 mins. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or take map control with smart placement of the first 3 sensories and win the game with 3 hives.
I believe if you're going to use SC's in a clan war, you would have to aim to win by a skulk rush within 5 mins. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or keep the marines so contained that they don't get res nodes up or phases by your hives. Its pretty tough to kill marine start with only sens.
Sensory only sucks when the team sucks. DC first only allows those few indivudual players that <b>are</b> good to carry the rest of the team with them with a Regen Onos.
aliens put up the sensory, marines counter it with scan
scan is limited and there is no need for a counter to a counter
Personnaly I think that Sensory chambers should be cheapper, maybe 5 res. Their only are good If you cover most of the map with them quickly and early in the game. Cheapper chambers is one way of making that more practical.
BTW, I may be off alittle as I havent been able to play any 3.0. My college blocked the HL and Steam Ports #'s as they are "redoing" the network and need to minimize throughput. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It used to suck in 2.01, but now in 3.00 sensory first is definately a plausible winning streategy, all in thanks to focus.
Then again, I could be wrong. I'm sure there are successful clans that use DMS <i>every</i> time (or maybe I am wrong here). What I am wondering is if there are clans that use SMD or SDM <i>every</i> time (so marines expect it ahead of time), and still have success.
DSM also works great.
MSD or SMD are both great challenges but are viable.
DMS is classic tried and true strat that works.
MDS is not as new as the other combo's but is newer than DMS, and MDS is very powerful and works well.
Cloaking can REALLY help gorges get out of a Jam
Scent of Fear can PREVENT gorges getting INTO a Jam
And Focus can help experienced gorges become Battle Gorges (tho... with spit reduced to a mere 25 dmg normally, 50 dmg per spit )every 2 second's) isn't all that great... put the normal spit back to 50 plz!
*thinks* If they put SPIKES back on the lerk... they did 20 dmg per spike at around 4 spikes a second.. imagine a FOCUS lerk!\
<!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
RAWR *spike spike spike*
/^-^\ (happy lerk with 2 dead HA marines to eat)
Hehe, 40 dmg per spike, at 2 spikes a second, so 80 dmg per second WOOT FOR FOCUS SPIKE LERK!
Half team go gorge, get adrenaline and healspray other gorges or whatever you like.
Skulks go silence.
OMG he dropped sc first, noob.
Half team go gorge spread sc over the map, go skulk and get focus.
Some gorges stay to save for a resnode.
<b> i ONCE want so seriously hear someone shouting "omg he dropped dc first, kick"</b>
I agree that Defense isn't anywhere near as useful at the start of the game (before shotguns, before you have higher lifeforms you want to keep healed and alive). But it is utterly essential in the mid/late games, and especially on pubs. So even if it isn't important as a first chamber, it almost has to go first to ensure that it will be there later on.
Movement is very very important as a second chamber too, because almost always the game at this point involves defending a hive: and that means getting there FAST. You don't have movement up when the rines start seiging your second hive, you're dead.
Sensory is fun as heck. But it only has one ability that's useful for combat and attacking embedded positions, and given the importance of the other two chamber... Until something in this line up changes, you just aren't going to see it on pubs until the third hive: which, unforuntately, is when it's LEAST fun.
Now, get a good team together that coordinates, and you can find a way to exploit almost any chamber order. But if you care about breaking up DMS in pub servers, then you'd need to do something drastic. Plain and simple. Either that or make the chamber order random, instead of gorge's choice.
Come play on The Linuxmonster. We'll show you some creative uses for that bottle <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->