That could work, although it would probably work better if sci-fi style textures were used, but the lighting was stronger, and brush work was slightly more simple.
Wouldn't increasing the light defeat the purpose of claustrophobia and well... dark...
And we could have some scientists in a room that you can seem, but can't get too. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/Skin/SKIN-2/PostIcons/icon2.gif" border="0">
<!--QuoteBegin--Epoch+Oct. 19 2002,12:51--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Epoch @ Oct. 19 2002,12:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I suppose that you can make such maps if you want, but my server sure as hell won't be running them, and I doubt that many others will either.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And not to mention they won't never be part of NS' official maps. A-T-M-O-S-P-H-E-R-E. HL maps with NS, horrible thought.
Troy instead of making new maps so they are bright, just do this. Go to the video properties of your video card and adjust the gamma way up. Then enter a game and the map will be very bright <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
NS on a half-life level, <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> like c2a3 or something.
nah NS would be good on a map like dust because it would be funny being chased by a onos down the tunnel lmao <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Open your eyes <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
If you want to make a brightly lit map with half-life textures just go make a map for HLDM or something
I have my gamma and monitor brightness at max and I still can never see a damn thing!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean the official NS levels? I too have a hard time seeing much of anything in a lot of levels posted here, but if the official levels appear too dark to you, your gamma (or brightness, or something) might need to be corrected inside your video display settings (I discovered that I had to do this once I started to create NS levels). Because they certainly are not too dark. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
The official levels are designed to <i>feel</i> dark without containing any large areas that actually are too dark. There can be lots of shadows and such for aliens to hide in, but you certainly should be able to see your way around in the levels without any problems at all.
It seems to be a common misconception among mappers that NS levels should be dark. They shouldn't. A level in which you can only see a few light sources here and there -and is otherwise pitchblack- is not creepy, and it's certainly not atmospheric. One must strive to create a level that utilizes both dark <i>and</i> light. <i>That</i> is where the atmoshpere comes from.
In other words, and overall well-lit level with lots of small areas of shadow seems to be the way to go.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ginger+Oct. 19 2002,18:48--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Ginger @ Oct. 19 2002,18:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->nah NS would be good on a map like dust because it would be funny being chased by a onos down the tunnel lmao <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The Marine will sky walk and the aliens will have a hard time setting the c4 up.
its just that every space opera game i've player (FPS that is) its alwyas hard to see but there will be "Fun retarded" maps one day for NS, like iceworld is for CS
I hate iceworld. Its not fun at all. I mean.. ga!... Turn a corner and <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::asrifle::'><!--endemo--> ! One guy campin' that area layin' into everyone... grm... But hey, if you think its fun, thats cool too! <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Troy Rage+Oct. 20 2002,09:10--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Troy Rage @ Oct. 20 2002,09:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->its just that every space opera game i've player (FPS that is) its alwyas hard to see but there will be "Fun retarded" maps one day for NS, like iceworld is for CS<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Iceworld = Fun Retarded - Fun.
Maps that take the point of the game and just rip it apart and throw it away are not fun. At least not for most people. Whatever floats your boat, man.
/me thinks of the "Lego" map for DOD or "Instagib" AWP levels for CS...
every mod/game seems to have a couple of really stupid maps and it's not the general servers that play them. It's more likely the little 4-8 player ones that don't really qualify as proper servers...
Hey, I'll admit I had "fun" in the above mentioned maps but not in the way the game was meant to be played.
<b>And</b> on a different tact, Troy, if you want to last long around here - I would advise you think about what you say about other peoples maps and PARTICULARLY official maps and even MORE PARTICULARLY official maps made by the dev team...
I for one think relics map is dead sexy. If I were a BSP compiler - it'd be an honor to have it run through my routines <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
Thing is, custom maps vary wildly in quality... not all custom maps are weak novelties though...
de_pacman, for instance, grows tiresome very quickly imo..
cs_winternights however, is a wonderfully balanced, pretty and well "thought out " map....
( Volare, India, Rio, De_747, all class imo...)
CS maps, I know , but thats what I play most....point being that in my opinion, a lot of custom CS maps are far superior to, say, chateau..or a lot of the other "official" maps...
Yes, a lot of people dislike them, but I reckon a lot of that is down to peeps being too damn lazy to learn a new map outside the predictable dust/aztec cycle...
I too turn my gamma all the way up and my monitor brightness all the way up, but still get dark levels. My Gainward EXPERTool doesn't work, but I am fervently searching for a way to increase my gammma.
Cmon folks, light in and of itself is not the antichrist.
You can still maintain the creepy and jump-out of the shadows look and feel of the various maps I've seen shots of, (which are all beautifully lit and look great) without necessarily having to have dim lighting conditions. A brightly lit map, such as an office building, or a cruise vessel, may seem wrong but think about this:
Just because there is very little deep shadow in a map does not mean it's impossible to hide and ambush.
Consider the cruise vessel example. A large decadent ship that's well lit in most regions because the cosmetic facade has prevented extensive damage to the actual lighting systems and power conduits during the combat during the infestation.
It is because of that cosmetic facade, with a large amount of unnecessary, er for lack of a better word, junk, which is used to decorate the ship, that the aliens could find sufficient cover. Consider a long promenade, with an elevated walkway on each side and a series of small vestibules which would have contained small tables and chairs, or potted plants. The paths on either side of this promenade would be fairly clear, except when blocked by fallen debris such as large ornamental light fixtures, fallen trees from the gardenlike median of the promenade, etc.
Beneath this garden median, potentially walled off with plexiglass (broken?), would be the conduit down which the necessary water systems to keep the plants alive, access tunnels for maintenance staff, and the ventilation ductiing for the artificial breeze system.
There would be hatches (breakable of course) cleverly concealed behind bushes or ornamental rocks for the maintenance, landscaping, and cleaning staff to surface from their access tunnel to enter the garden and keep it neatly pruned without having grubby service people mingling with the ridiculously wealthy passengers.
Additionally, above the lighting setup in the ceiling, there would be alien-only passages where the power conduits for the lighting, and maybe an alien-only resource node could be found.
Here I have described an area which, in majority, could be brightly lit, but still provide cover, and still be a complete nightmare for the marines attempting to secure this area, because of the enormous number of places the aliens could be hiding in or coming from.
Just because it's bright, doesn't mean it ruins the atmosphere.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
I'd definitely love to eventually see an NS map on a vessel reminiscent of the Flosten Paradise cruise ship in The Fifth Element (mmm, Milla... er, where was I?). However, I agree (for the time being) with Flay's decision to keep the maps of a similar theme, to create a sense of unity in the NS levels.
But yes, all excellent points here. I think the primary issue in this thread is that HL textures are not l33t enough to be graced with NS models. (:
I would love it if, prior to V2 (or the next official map patch), the NS team were to release one or two new sets of textures: ns_civ.wad and ns_corp.wad. ns_civ (civilian) would include textures suitable for civilian craft/stations/facilities, while ns_corp (corporate) would include textures for use in corporate installations like research labs. Of course both would be up to NS's extremely high standards of quality, and both would retain the not-too-distant future feeling of the original ns.wad (which is best suited for industrial settings).
But hey, let's not get ahead of ourselves. First I'm just gonna enjoy playing the 7 official maps. (:
realityisdeadEmployed by Raven Software after making ns_nothingJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Exactly, Herr. I'm not so fond of a civilian plant infested ship type area, but you've got the right idea about the darkness issue.
If you study the official NS levels you'll notice that a lot of them are fairly well lit. (And colorful.) No one likes a dark map once you get down into actually playing the game.
Though I must stress that shadows <i>are</i> important to achieving that NS Atmoshpere. When placed in a fairly well lit area, you get contrast. NS is all about contrast. Look at ns_bast. It is one of the most professionally built maps I've seen lately, and what does it have?
Heh, thank you, Ken. I agree that the broad contrast between light and dark areas is a good thing. The illusion of safety coupled with the threat of the unknown; the combination has a strong psychological effect that is very desireable.
I just don't want to see people discounting out of hand very beautiful and playable maps simply because they're too bright.
Bright outdoor maps and non-broken civilian environments (heh) don't really fit the motif or the art theme of the official release, but I would be a happy camper to see some well-done custom maps of that sort running on servers.
Wow, this just gave me an idea... /me pulls out NSTR2, de_dust, and a .bsp to .map converter program. /me converts dust to .map and adds hives and a command console.
Lol that would be funny, but people might get angry at you, namely the maker of dust.
*note I posted this after reading page 1, so it may be off topic now, but I wanted to post it before I forgot it.*
<!--QuoteBegin--Troy Rage+Oct. 19 2002,12:08--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Troy Rage @ Oct. 19 2002,12:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->we should make some maps using Hl textures or some well lit textures, these maps would just serve as some sorta break time from poorly lit maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> buddy, how do you take a break from something that YOU HAVENT EVEN PLAYED YET!? im sorry, but i take it this wasn't a well thought-out idea...
*note*i added this after i read the whole thread and after i already posted my previous thread*note* anyways... playing normal cs maps all the time gets quite boring. fast. thats why you have fun maps, like starwars or crazytank. some fun maps have a mission, like crazytank, and some dont, like starwars. who CARES if its not how the game was meant to be played? fun maps are awesome. and if you dont like to have FUN then there is something wrong with you...
Comments
None of the NS maps are poorly lit. It's all about atmosphere. Using HL textures wouldn't help this at all.
Wouldn't increasing the light defeat the purpose of claustrophobia and well... dark...
And we could have some scientists in a room that you can seem, but can't get too. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/Skin/SKIN-2/PostIcons/icon2.gif" border="0">
That would be like stopping eating cookies and having a few badly-boiled sprouts.
And not to mention they won't never be part of NS' official maps. A-T-M-O-S-P-H-E-R-E. HL maps with NS, horrible thought.
I have my gamma and monitor brightness at max and I still can never see a damn thing!!!
If you want to make a brightly lit map with half-life textures just go make a map for HLDM or something
I have my gamma and monitor brightness at max and I still can never see a damn thing!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean the official NS levels? I too have a hard time seeing much of anything in a lot of levels posted here, but if the official levels appear too dark to you, your gamma (or brightness, or something) might need to be corrected inside your video display settings (I discovered that I had to do this once I started to create NS levels). Because they certainly are not too dark. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
The official levels are designed to <i>feel</i> dark without containing any large areas that actually are too dark. There can be lots of shadows and such for aliens to hide in, but you certainly should be able to see your way around in the levels without any problems at all.
It seems to be a common misconception among mappers that NS levels should be dark. They shouldn't. A level in which you can only see a few light sources here and there -and is otherwise pitchblack- is not creepy, and it's certainly not atmospheric. One must strive to create a level that utilizes both dark <i>and</i> light. <i>That</i> is where the atmoshpere comes from.
In other words, and overall well-lit level with lots of small areas of shadow seems to be the way to go.
<!--EDIT|ken20banks|Oct. 19 2002,21:13-->
The Marine will sky walk and the aliens will have a hard time setting the c4 up.
Iceworld = Fun Retarded - Fun.
Maps that take the point of the game and just rip it apart and throw it away are not fun. At least not for most people. Whatever floats your boat, man.
every mod/game seems to have a couple of really stupid maps and it's not the general servers that play them. It's more likely the little 4-8 player ones that don't really qualify as proper servers...
Hey, I'll admit I had "fun" in the above mentioned maps but not in the way the game was meant to be played.
<b>And</b> on a different tact, Troy, if you want to last long around here - I would advise you think about what you say about other peoples maps and PARTICULARLY official maps and even MORE PARTICULARLY official maps made by the dev team...
I for one think relics map is dead sexy. If I were a BSP compiler - it'd be an honor to have it run through my routines <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
de_pacman, for instance, grows tiresome very quickly imo..
cs_winternights however, is a wonderfully balanced, pretty and well "thought out " map....
( Volare, India, Rio, De_747, all class imo...)
CS maps, I know , but thats what I play most....point being that in my opinion, a lot of custom CS maps are far superior to, say, chateau..or a lot of the other "official" maps...
Yes, a lot of people dislike them, but I reckon a lot of that is down to peeps being too damn lazy to learn a new map outside the predictable dust/aztec cycle...
Edit: but stay out of that "gamma" or "brightness " menu once it's done, probably set yer cfg. to "read only"...
And further more - chateau is a brilliant map.
You can still maintain the creepy and jump-out of the shadows look and feel of the various maps I've seen shots of, (which are all beautifully lit and look great) without necessarily having to have dim lighting conditions.
A brightly lit map, such as an office building, or a cruise vessel, may seem wrong but think about this:
Just because there is very little deep shadow in a map does not mean it's impossible to hide and ambush.
Consider the cruise vessel example. A large decadent ship that's well lit in most regions because the cosmetic facade has prevented extensive damage to the actual lighting systems and power conduits during the combat during the infestation.
It is because of that cosmetic facade, with a large amount of unnecessary, er for lack of a better word, junk, which is used to decorate the ship, that the aliens could find sufficient cover. Consider a long promenade, with an elevated walkway on each side and a series of small vestibules which would have contained small tables and chairs, or potted plants. The paths on either side of this promenade would be fairly clear, except when blocked by fallen debris such as large ornamental light fixtures, fallen trees from the gardenlike median of the promenade, etc.
Beneath this garden median, potentially walled off with plexiglass (broken?), would be the conduit down which the necessary water systems to keep the plants alive, access tunnels for maintenance staff, and the ventilation ductiing for the artificial breeze system.
There would be hatches (breakable of course) cleverly concealed behind bushes or ornamental rocks for the maintenance, landscaping, and cleaning staff to surface from their access tunnel to enter the garden and keep it neatly pruned without having grubby service people mingling with the ridiculously wealthy passengers.
Additionally, above the lighting setup in the ceiling, there would be alien-only passages where the power conduits for the lighting, and maybe an alien-only resource node could be found.
Here I have described an area which, in majority, could be brightly lit, but still provide cover, and still be a complete nightmare for the marines attempting to secure this area, because of the enormous number of places the aliens could be hiding in or coming from.
Just because it's bright, doesn't mean it ruins the atmosphere.
-Tom
I stopped where it said office building :o
But yes, all excellent points here. I think the primary issue in this thread is that HL textures are not l33t enough to be graced with NS models. (:
I would love it if, prior to V2 (or the next official map patch), the NS team were to release one or two new sets of textures: ns_civ.wad and ns_corp.wad. ns_civ (civilian) would include textures suitable for civilian craft/stations/facilities, while ns_corp (corporate) would include textures for use in corporate installations like research labs. Of course both would be up to NS's extremely high standards of quality, and both would retain the not-too-distant future feeling of the original ns.wad (which is best suited for industrial settings).
But hey, let's not get ahead of ourselves. First I'm just gonna enjoy playing the 7 official maps. (:
If you study the official NS levels you'll notice that a lot of them are fairly well lit. (And colorful.) No one likes a dark map once you get down into actually playing the game.
Though I must stress that shadows <i>are</i> important to achieving that NS Atmoshpere. When placed in a fairly well lit area, you get contrast. NS is all about contrast. Look at ns_bast. It is one of the most professionally built maps I've seen lately, and what does it have?
A lot of light, a lot of shadows, a lot of color.
<!--EDIT|ken20banks|Oct. 22 2002,18:07-->
I agree that the broad contrast between light and dark areas is a good thing. The illusion of safety coupled with the threat of the unknown; the combination has a strong psychological effect that is very desireable.
I just don't want to see people discounting out of hand very beautiful and playable maps simply because they're too bright.
Bright outdoor maps and non-broken civilian environments (heh) don't really fit the motif or the art theme of the official release, but I would be a happy camper to see some well-done custom maps of that sort running on servers.
-Tom
/me pulls out NSTR2, de_dust, and a .bsp to .map converter program.
/me converts dust to .map and adds hives and a command console.
Lol that would be funny, but people might get angry at you, namely the maker of dust.
*note I posted this after reading page 1, so it may be off topic now, but I wanted to post it before I forgot it.*
buddy, how do you take a break from something that YOU HAVENT EVEN PLAYED YET!? im sorry, but i take it this wasn't a well thought-out idea...
playing normal cs maps all the time gets quite boring. fast. thats why you have fun maps, like starwars or crazytank. some fun maps have a mission, like crazytank, and some dont, like starwars. who CARES if its not how the game was meant to be played? fun maps are awesome. and if you dont like to have FUN then there is something wrong with you...