People complain about how gimped Primal Scream's energy usage and duration is, and now they say it would be overpowered on a hive 1 gorge? Not only are gorges much easier to kill than lerks are(and remember these gorges would have to be right up next to the skulks the whole time), but with the energy costs the primal scream/heal spam scenario being outlined is impossible without Adrenaline. Lerks barely use Primal Scream as it is even when they finally get it; I don't see how it would be overpowered on a Gorge.
I personally do not like the idea of a gimped healing spray. Gorges need some way to defend themselves. I felt that the 1.04 healing spray was fine. It took almost the full complement of energy to kill a marine, which was enough time for the marine to kill the gorge as long as they weren't trying to be "leet" and knife the gorge to death. By running backwards away from the marine and dodging, a gorge could kill one marine by it's self. It wouldn't work on multiple marines. I find it funny that I find myself on the "fps" side of the typical "fps vs rts elements" arguements that are routinely found on these forums. Making a class with no combat abilities in an FPS game is asking for trouble.
Giving the gorge primal scream is a good idea, but taking away it's combat abilities and making it move into combat situations at the same time is a mistake. Gorges need "self defense". HS cannot kill multiple marines on it's own. I do not see it as a problem. Even with Primal, the energy usage for it and the time it takes to switch weapons should be enough for the marine to spill about a clip into the poor fatteh.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Mar 17 2004, 09:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Mar 17 2004, 09:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People complain about how gimped Primal Scream's energy usage and duration is, and now they say it would be overpowered on a hive 1 gorge? Not only are gorges much easier to kill than lerks are(and remember these gorges would have to be right up next to the skulks the whole time), but with the energy costs the primal scream/heal spam scenario being outlined is impossible without Adrenaline. Lerks barely use Primal Scream as it is even when they finally get it; I don't see how it would be overpowered on a Gorge.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It was changed. Primal scream now lasts actually lasts 5 seconds. I remember the thing would never work, but I see it working all the time now, so I'm guessing either I've never noticed how it worked before or that it started to work.
Regardless, primal scream makes your aliens god-like and gorge rushing would dominate.
<!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Mar 17 2004, 09:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Mar 17 2004, 09:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I personally do not like the idea of a gimped healing spray. Gorges need some way to defend themselves. I felt that the 1.04 healing spray was fine. It took almost the full complement of energy to kill a marine, which was enough time for the marine to kill the gorge as long as they weren't trying to be "leet" and knife the gorge to death. By running backwards away from the marine and dodging, a gorge could kill one marine by it's self. It wouldn't work on multiple marines. I find it funny that I find myself on the "fps" side of the typical "fps vs rts elements" arguements that are routinely found on these forums. Making a class with no combat abilities in an FPS game is asking for trouble.
Giving the gorge primal scream is a good idea, but taking away it's combat abilities and making it move into combat situations at the same time is a mistake. Gorges need "self defense". HS cannot kill multiple marines on it's own. I do not see it as a problem. Even with Primal, the energy usage for it and the time it takes to switch weapons should be enough for the marine to spill about a clip into the poor fatteh.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm with Torak. Gorges aren't really meant to be battle units, or really battle support. They're the behind the scenes kinda guys. And spit is <b>not</b> useless. I know a few guys who can own you with that gorge spit! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 16 2004, 09:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 16 2004, 09:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Mar 16 2004, 07:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Mar 16 2004, 07:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 16 2004, 06:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 16 2004, 06:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you'd actually bother to see what primal scream does, you'd know that primal scream gives you INCREASED ENERGY FLOW for 5 seconds.
Therefore, it gives the basic gorge unlimited energy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What if you changed it so that the user didn't recieve any benefits from the screaming (just those around him)? That way, he could do one or the other for longer, but could only sustain both for short periods of time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What about gorge gangs?
Say you have 4 gorges, one primal screams and now you have gorges that heal each other so fast you can't deal enough damage with your LMG to even pick off one. In fact, it'd probably take shotguns to kill these suckers.
Basic skulks who are moving faster may also be too much for marines to handle.
Still, having primal scream for a hive 1 ability in the gorge class is a valid idea.
Right now primal scream is one of the most underused abilities in the game.
It would be cool to try out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've never noticed primal scream give an increase to either movement speed or energy regen in this latest beta. I was just ingame checking it out as a lerk, and I could not detect any change in my speed of walking, flight, or the rate at which I recovered my energy. Unless I'm missing something in that test, all primal scream does is up damage by ~30% and attack speed by ~30%, despite what the manual says.
I disagree with your gorge gang claim. It takes a lot of energy to primal scream and a lot of energy to healspray. If you're ever been primal screamed when you're healspraying or bilebombing, you'll notice that you'll deplete your energy bar almost instantly due to the increased speed of attacks, even with adrenaline. Unless your gorge gang was extremely careful with its healing, they would become tired and unable to heal fast. Besides, a great counter to any gorge gang is just walking away and finding another LMG marine or two so you can concentrate your fire. Goodbye, 40 res gorge gang.
Like I said above, I'm pretty certain that primal scream does not increase movement speed.
I agree that it would be cool to try out giving primal scream to the gorge. Some tweaks might be needed. Even a 20% damage, 20% attack speed bonus would make the gorge's primal scream a nice addition to a group.
Primal scream DOES increase attack speed, movement speed, enery regeneration, and MAYBE damage ( dunno about that one cos I dont pay much attention I just hit until they are dead <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Comments
Giving the gorge primal scream is a good idea, but taking away it's combat abilities and making it move into combat situations at the same time is a mistake. Gorges need "self defense". HS cannot kill multiple marines on it's own. I do not see it as a problem. Even with Primal, the energy usage for it and the time it takes to switch weapons should be enough for the marine to spill about a clip into the poor fatteh.
It was changed. Primal scream now lasts actually lasts 5 seconds. I remember the thing would never work, but I see it working all the time now, so I'm guessing either I've never noticed how it worked before or that it started to work.
Regardless, primal scream makes your aliens god-like and gorge rushing would dominate.
Giving the gorge primal scream is a good idea, but taking away it's combat abilities and making it move into combat situations at the same time is a mistake. Gorges need "self defense". HS cannot kill multiple marines on it's own. I do not see it as a problem. Even with Primal, the energy usage for it and the time it takes to switch weapons should be enough for the marine to spill about a clip into the poor fatteh.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm with Torak. Gorges aren't really meant to be battle units, or really battle support. They're the behind the scenes kinda guys. And spit is <b>not</b> useless. I know a few guys who can own you with that gorge spit! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Therefore, it gives the basic gorge unlimited energy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What if you changed it so that the user didn't recieve any benefits from the screaming (just those around him)? That way, he could do one or the other for longer, but could only sustain both for short periods of time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What about gorge gangs?
Say you have 4 gorges, one primal screams and now you have gorges that heal each other so fast you can't deal enough damage with your LMG to even pick off one. In fact, it'd probably take shotguns to kill these suckers.
Basic skulks who are moving faster may also be too much for marines to handle.
Still, having primal scream for a hive 1 ability in the gorge class is a valid idea.
Right now primal scream is one of the most underused abilities in the game.
It would be cool to try out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've never noticed primal scream give an increase to either movement speed or energy regen in this latest beta. I was just ingame checking it out as a lerk, and I could not detect any change in my speed of walking, flight, or the rate at which I recovered my energy. Unless I'm missing something in that test, all primal scream does is up damage by ~30% and attack speed by ~30%, despite what the manual says.
I disagree with your gorge gang claim. It takes a lot of energy to primal scream and a lot of energy to healspray. If you're ever been primal screamed when you're healspraying or bilebombing, you'll notice that you'll deplete your energy bar almost instantly due to the increased speed of attacks, even with adrenaline. Unless your gorge gang was extremely careful with its healing, they would become tired and unable to heal fast. Besides, a great counter to any gorge gang is just walking away and finding another LMG marine or two so you can concentrate your fire. Goodbye, 40 res gorge gang.
Like I said above, I'm pretty certain that primal scream does not increase movement speed.
I agree that it would be cool to try out giving primal scream to the gorge. Some tweaks might be needed. Even a 20% damage, 20% attack speed bonus would make the gorge's primal scream a nice addition to a group.