Slight Touch Of Co In Classic Ns...

SkyrageSkyrage Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20249Members
in NS General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">...for the khaara...</div> I suppose this has been discussed before, in various forms but currently I think it'd do rather nicely to even things out a bit in classic NS...

I propose that the khaara should have the ability to evolve extra upgrade slots for a certain amount of resources...

The important thing here is that the cost for one extra upgrade slot would vary for each life-form AND more importantly, ALL extra slots and upgrades would disappear if a player evolves to another life-form...

No chambers should be needed for this ability...

The cost could look something like this and note that this is only a suggested range of costs:

Skulks...

5-10 res per bonus slot...

Lerks

10-20 res per bonus slot...

Gorges

5-15 res per bonus slot...

Fades

25-35 res per bonus slot...

Onos

40-60 res per bonus slot...

No lifeform would have any limits on the number of extra upgrades that it can have, however, if that lifeform dies then you will have to start from scratch again...so in theory an oni could have all 9 upgrades, however this would most likely never ever happen unless the game is dragging on for an insanely amount of time...

Reason for this suggestion is that in classic NS, you can first of all never get to use interesting combinations which makes the game loads of fun to play...in combat you have that option to fully customize which I feel should be allowed in classic NS as well, but in a controlled fashion...

Second, this would (perhaps) put a dent on the DMS syndrome which exists in most servers and re-introduce the endless amount of different strategies that both teams can/will have to use...

Thirdly, this would (yet again, hopefully) help the khaara to overcome turteled marines in end games...basically, as time goes by, the khaara grow stronger and stronger...

Any thoughts on this? Possible imbalances that I may have overlooked? (I don't really think that there should be any but I may be wrong <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
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Comments

  • Norml_E_HighNorml_E_High Join Date: 2003-03-30 Member: 15055Members
    edited March 2004
    Hmm, I don't know. I mean, marines are no different in combat, other than they can't have all the things a marine can have at once. In NS, a marine can have every upgrade possible to get in combat, save catpacks, scanner sweep, and ressupply, which the commander has to physically drop. Onos aren't really that powerful, because you can only have 3 upgrades and stomp, or 4 upgrades and only gore and devour. Fades on the otherhand would probably be the biggest problem. An onos isn't really that much more badass in combat wiht the extra upgrades, but a fade... thats a different story. Still, I think it might be a cool idea, but I just don't know.
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  • SkyrageSkyrage Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20249Members
    What are the odds that you'll see a fade with all 9 upgrades if one extra upgrade slot costs let's say 30 res? That's 30*6 = 180 res, and then an extra 12 for the actual upgrades...and that at hive 3...

    I should add (which I forgot), you still need the upgrade chambers in order to get the actual upgrades...
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  • ServilcatServilcat Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4897Members
    Hmmm, I'm not so sure either.

    It's an interesting idea, but at the kind of cost you'd have to to introduce, it would kind of a wate of res.

    One thing I like about NS Classic is that you don't get the uber-lifeforms you find in CO, so you have to be more strategical about which upgrades you pick, but you also get far more chances to change them (if your fighting reasonable rines) and adapt to the situation.

    The fact is, it's only the kind of thing you going to see end game, when with the hive armor boosts, the aliens are strong enough already.

    If you made it cheap enough then you'd see far too many Ceril/Adren Fades (read:fastest thing in the game), and other such cheap combos like Focus/Cloak and Cara/Regen Onos.
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  • SkyrageSkyrage Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20249Members
    Well, thats why it's not supposed to be too cheap...it's meant to be a risky investment...the more you spend on the upgrades the better you become obviously, but if you die, then you lose all that...

    Also, I might add, when playing combat, a single super alien isn't all mighty powerful as some people might think...even 3 rines with level 3 LMG's can pose a rather big risk to an onos if he sticks around too much...2-3 level 3 HMG rines can down an oni in a matter of moments, even if the oni would have every single upgrade on him...

    Thing is that as I said before, I don't seriously believe that there will be any super fades or oni around...and if the khaara has 3 hives, all resnodes, and have the rines pinned down, only then will investing in extra upgrades become really beneficial...before that...well, as I said, it'll be a risk, but perhaps a worthwhile one...
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  • ThorStrykerThorStryker Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12025Members
    It's actually a well thought plan as long as the res cost is high. If the idea is too powerful, then why not make it for weapons slots instead? Its almost impossible to get that third hive as it is. If the alien has the res, let him get that third/fourth slot weapon. This way the karaa will be able to use their third/fourth powers in a core game. They would still be gimped without the other chambers, but be more versitile to fightback for that third hive.
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  • RabidWeaselRabidWeasel Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5337Members
    Good concept, been suggested, would require lots of rebalancing and so is unlikely to go into the game any time soon.
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  • ObliteraterObliterater Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9652Members
    It sounds like a good idea, a couple extra upgrades for the higher classes would help crack the marine turtle shell in thoes games where aliens own the whole map but marines own a hive and 3 billion turrets.
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  • Crono5Crono5 Join Date: 2003-07-22 Member: 18357Members
    I like this idea. The Aliens should get a boost back towards physcial supremacy, since the Marines have so many damned alternates to physical force...
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  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    What happens when an Onos takes Redemption as his first upgrade and takes advantage of the fact that he'll never die to fill up on the rest of them during the game?
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  • SkyrageSkyrage Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20249Members
    Aah yes..I'm glad you mentioned redemption, because that part bugged me for a while as well...

    One option would be (although I don't know if it would be possible to implement) to reduce the chance for redemption by perhaps 5% or so for each extra upgrade slot that you get...the current redemption isn't 100% reliable ingame either so...

    Another option would perhaps be to disable redemption altogether if you get over a certain amount of upgrades...I suppose this would only become a reality for the lower life-forms who would be more likely to have several upgrades...for the fade and onos, redemption wouldn't really be worth that much simply because of the res cost and they'll most likely benefit from another upgrade...then again, it would depend on the player's style of playing...

    Remember, that classic NS res income isn't exactly hyperfast, so there will never be 10 oni running around with 9 upgrades in a game unless it would last for a couple of hours and the rines are turteled in 75% of this time...in which I suppose having the unlikely event of 10 oni with 9 upgrades would be quite justified...
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  • RabidWeaselRabidWeasel Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5337Members
    I would rather have redemption removed completely as it doesn't fit at all in an RTS format to have an unkillable unit.
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  • OlmyOlmy Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16142Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Developer, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
    At the moment at top level tech for marines and aliens, aliens are totally outgunned. Introducing this is a great idea imo, because its unlikely to have an effect early game, and will help to deal with those seemingly impossible situations, such as 1 of 2 hives getting sieged with 10 HA guarding, it would also help to accelerate alien endgames, as marines usually still have full upgrades right to the very end of the match.
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  • CEldinCEldin Join Date: 2002-09-16 Member: 1323Members
    For me, I have not played NS that much at all recently so I don't know how everything is working out balance wise. I can however, project that introducing this idea is feasible but hard work. I do not doubt that it will be implimented at some time down the road, of course I can't be positive, but it will in all likely hood not make it into 3.0.

    A good suggestion but hard to balance. If its not on the to-do list now then it won't make it into this final release.
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  • Crono5Crono5 Join Date: 2003-07-22 Member: 18357Members
    From what I've experienced, Redemption always fails on the third try.
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  • Norml_E_HighNorml_E_High Join Date: 2003-03-30 Member: 15055Members
    Yeah, I used to get redemption alot as pretty much all expensive lifeforms, and ones I didn't really want to lose, such as grog and lork. But now, EVEN as a grog, i don't get redemption anymore. I usually go cara grog now, because I'll have DC wherever I'm doing grog operations. I'd kind of like to see something else in it's slot, but as of yet I've never seen anyone make a valid suggestion for anything else that could go under the DC.
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