With Love,
Harrower
Join Date: 2005-03-16 Member: 45478Members
Join Date: 2005-03-16 Member: 45478Members
<div class="IPBDescription">From }{ydra</div>Kama, Roland and myself were chatting it up on vent until about 6am last night (this morning) and I decided to post some of the ideas that came up about NS2.
<!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Aliens<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->1. Upgrades Qualitatively Diversify Gameplay<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
So let's say for instance, you're a gorge. If you've read any of my other posts (particularly the all-in-one rant I added a monthish ago) you'll know I think gorges deserve some more interesting gameplay, but that's not the point here.
The point is that right now, if you take focus, you get a damage up. If you take carapace, you get a max-hp buff. If you take adrenaline, you get a mana buff. These are good for ns1, but here's the idea for NS2:
If a gorge for instance takes carapace, it alters him differently than it would, say, a lerk. A gorge with carapace enhances his class's existing foci, so he would grow something like a turtle shell (decresing his move speed by a lot*), while a fade might get a harder (not thicker) skin, and a tougher bone structure, resulting in physical changes like horns or bones growing out of the skin on his spinal column.
Celerity might give greater muscle definition, and might result in a lerk flying faster, but walking the same speed, or even slower because of the added wing muscle weight.
I think that gets the idea across. The point is to have class-specific buffs for each upgrade available ingame. I believe this would make ns more interesting, more visually striking, and more fun.
*I would reduce damage by ~90% for a gorge shell, but allow the comm to upgrade gravity guns to knock him over and attack him from underneath. Maybe you could even turn him over with enough marines' brute force. That's just me though.
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->2. Dynamic Infestation As Power Source<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I've said before that I can find any number of games with "goop", and that one primary factor that will distinguish NS2 from all the existing games is the level of dynamic gameplay offered by the "dynamic" infestation.
I would love to see this as a method for making gorges' lives more interesting (hoping we still have gorges in NS2). For example, web could be removed from the realm of weapons and be added as an ability that would more or less be the restructuring of existing DI. Another thought is to have the gorge able to reshape DI into walls for defense, or maybe a little igloo for him to hide in until a lerk can come kill the attacking marines.
I had a couple thoughts for this on marines as well, but more on that later.
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->3. Parasite<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
You can't say you haven't at least once thought about the first "birth" scene in the alien movie when you created Parasite. Here's the unfinished idea we came up with:
Parasite functions the way it always has, but is removable by, either an upgradable "catpack" type device, or (more likely) a CC or armory upgrade. In exchange (and the real point), the parasite has a 30 second (more or less) incubation time. If it incubates, then at any point after that 30-second window, while the marine is still breathing, an alien in the spawn queue can "burrow" out of the incubated marine, replacing his spawn with a spawn point at that marine, and, likely, killing the rine (as a heavy, if applicable).
Here are the problems we ran into:
Pub play: Increases rambo'ing.
If you know you're parasited, you're going to be even more tempted to blindly suicide your character because you know you're going to die anyway. I would love to hear peoples' idea about way to solve this, because I didn't come up with anything, but I love the basic idea of incubating a parasite into a spawn point.
Competitive play: Destroys realism completely.
I know that title doesn't sound that bad, but think about it. If you're playing competitive, you're not going to go back to the base to remove a parasite. You're going to go try to die, which a real marine would never do when they could just go get a heal. I realize that "a real marine would never do it" isn't a good reason by itself, but if you consider this, I think you'll come to the same conclusion. It's more damage to atmosphere than is worthy. I guess an in-field remover, or a specific character class to work on these things might be viable (more on that later) but I'd (again) love to hear other solutions.
<!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Marines<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->4. Marine Class Options<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I like the Kharaa's class system a lot, but it <i>requires power upgrades</i> in order to change <i>class type/gameplay</i>.
In order to further diversify the teams, and add gameplay mechanics, I suggest allowing marines (and <b>not</b> aliens) to diversify themselves by classes. Not a lot of similar classes like TFC or WoW, but a few very distinct and equal starting "professions" for marines. Be it soldier, or engineer, or whatever. The only class I'm proposing right now (which, just like anything in this thread, may very well have been proposed before, and if it has, good job, and sorry for stealing your thunder) is the Biotech Specialist.
The biospec is a class that uses the dynamic infestation in a very similar, though inverse, way that the gorge would, if the above proposition was in place. An upgrade like "Innoculate" or "Vaccinate" (significantly less cool-sounding, blame Roland) could be gained, whereby, say, innoculate would prevent parasiting or somesuch, and vaccinate might poison a given AoE of the DI without the aliens' knowledge. If the ninja vaccinate attempt was successful (not noticed by the aliens) then any gorge that harvested DI from that point would become poisoned, and die in ~a minute afterward. I would create no counter at that point, as the aliens' awareness should counter it, but that's up to you, just like everything else.
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->5. Liquid Nitrogen Grenades<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
The last idea you can blame on Kama. We were talking about ways of pushing the DI back, like electrification and grenades, and he had the thought of an "ice nade". I think, for realism's sake (har har) you'd have to make them nanite-altered since liquid nitro wouldn't do what we're going for here, but the idea is that you can burn <i>or</i> freeze the DI to death, and have it shrivel away or whatnot. In addition, you could throw an ice nade at a skulk and freeze it in place if it were standing still. Higher lifeforms would just slow down, though a direct hit would ground a lerk completely for a few seconds (think Web).
I would implement this in such a way that the visible effect and gameplay dynamics were based upon the alien's health. So if you had a skulk with 70/10 that was just standing on the ground unaware, and he gets hit with an ice nade, he's frozen in pristine condition, and one bullet would shatter him into little skulk pieces. In addition, a direct hit on a low-hp skulk (red, perhaps) would shatter him outright, and if he were frozen, and fell, say, from the drop to double on tanith (that leads into CAT), he'd break from the fall damage.
Obviously these are only effects from direct nade impact. AoE would have significantly less powerful mechanics, such as a slow effect, or maybe preventing skulks from walking on walls for a few seconds.
These are some of the ideas we came up with. Feedback is welcome, and as always, good luck on NS2.
<!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Aliens<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->1. Upgrades Qualitatively Diversify Gameplay<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
So let's say for instance, you're a gorge. If you've read any of my other posts (particularly the all-in-one rant I added a monthish ago) you'll know I think gorges deserve some more interesting gameplay, but that's not the point here.
The point is that right now, if you take focus, you get a damage up. If you take carapace, you get a max-hp buff. If you take adrenaline, you get a mana buff. These are good for ns1, but here's the idea for NS2:
If a gorge for instance takes carapace, it alters him differently than it would, say, a lerk. A gorge with carapace enhances his class's existing foci, so he would grow something like a turtle shell (decresing his move speed by a lot*), while a fade might get a harder (not thicker) skin, and a tougher bone structure, resulting in physical changes like horns or bones growing out of the skin on his spinal column.
Celerity might give greater muscle definition, and might result in a lerk flying faster, but walking the same speed, or even slower because of the added wing muscle weight.
I think that gets the idea across. The point is to have class-specific buffs for each upgrade available ingame. I believe this would make ns more interesting, more visually striking, and more fun.
*I would reduce damage by ~90% for a gorge shell, but allow the comm to upgrade gravity guns to knock him over and attack him from underneath. Maybe you could even turn him over with enough marines' brute force. That's just me though.
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->2. Dynamic Infestation As Power Source<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I've said before that I can find any number of games with "goop", and that one primary factor that will distinguish NS2 from all the existing games is the level of dynamic gameplay offered by the "dynamic" infestation.
I would love to see this as a method for making gorges' lives more interesting (hoping we still have gorges in NS2). For example, web could be removed from the realm of weapons and be added as an ability that would more or less be the restructuring of existing DI. Another thought is to have the gorge able to reshape DI into walls for defense, or maybe a little igloo for him to hide in until a lerk can come kill the attacking marines.
I had a couple thoughts for this on marines as well, but more on that later.
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->3. Parasite<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
You can't say you haven't at least once thought about the first "birth" scene in the alien movie when you created Parasite. Here's the unfinished idea we came up with:
Parasite functions the way it always has, but is removable by, either an upgradable "catpack" type device, or (more likely) a CC or armory upgrade. In exchange (and the real point), the parasite has a 30 second (more or less) incubation time. If it incubates, then at any point after that 30-second window, while the marine is still breathing, an alien in the spawn queue can "burrow" out of the incubated marine, replacing his spawn with a spawn point at that marine, and, likely, killing the rine (as a heavy, if applicable).
Here are the problems we ran into:
Pub play: Increases rambo'ing.
If you know you're parasited, you're going to be even more tempted to blindly suicide your character because you know you're going to die anyway. I would love to hear peoples' idea about way to solve this, because I didn't come up with anything, but I love the basic idea of incubating a parasite into a spawn point.
Competitive play: Destroys realism completely.
I know that title doesn't sound that bad, but think about it. If you're playing competitive, you're not going to go back to the base to remove a parasite. You're going to go try to die, which a real marine would never do when they could just go get a heal. I realize that "a real marine would never do it" isn't a good reason by itself, but if you consider this, I think you'll come to the same conclusion. It's more damage to atmosphere than is worthy. I guess an in-field remover, or a specific character class to work on these things might be viable (more on that later) but I'd (again) love to hear other solutions.
<!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Marines<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->4. Marine Class Options<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I like the Kharaa's class system a lot, but it <i>requires power upgrades</i> in order to change <i>class type/gameplay</i>.
In order to further diversify the teams, and add gameplay mechanics, I suggest allowing marines (and <b>not</b> aliens) to diversify themselves by classes. Not a lot of similar classes like TFC or WoW, but a few very distinct and equal starting "professions" for marines. Be it soldier, or engineer, or whatever. The only class I'm proposing right now (which, just like anything in this thread, may very well have been proposed before, and if it has, good job, and sorry for stealing your thunder) is the Biotech Specialist.
The biospec is a class that uses the dynamic infestation in a very similar, though inverse, way that the gorge would, if the above proposition was in place. An upgrade like "Innoculate" or "Vaccinate" (significantly less cool-sounding, blame Roland) could be gained, whereby, say, innoculate would prevent parasiting or somesuch, and vaccinate might poison a given AoE of the DI without the aliens' knowledge. If the ninja vaccinate attempt was successful (not noticed by the aliens) then any gorge that harvested DI from that point would become poisoned, and die in ~a minute afterward. I would create no counter at that point, as the aliens' awareness should counter it, but that's up to you, just like everything else.
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->5. Liquid Nitrogen Grenades<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
The last idea you can blame on Kama. We were talking about ways of pushing the DI back, like electrification and grenades, and he had the thought of an "ice nade". I think, for realism's sake (har har) you'd have to make them nanite-altered since liquid nitro wouldn't do what we're going for here, but the idea is that you can burn <i>or</i> freeze the DI to death, and have it shrivel away or whatnot. In addition, you could throw an ice nade at a skulk and freeze it in place if it were standing still. Higher lifeforms would just slow down, though a direct hit would ground a lerk completely for a few seconds (think Web).
I would implement this in such a way that the visible effect and gameplay dynamics were based upon the alien's health. So if you had a skulk with 70/10 that was just standing on the ground unaware, and he gets hit with an ice nade, he's frozen in pristine condition, and one bullet would shatter him into little skulk pieces. In addition, a direct hit on a low-hp skulk (red, perhaps) would shatter him outright, and if he were frozen, and fell, say, from the drop to double on tanith (that leads into CAT), he'd break from the fall damage.
Obviously these are only effects from direct nade impact. AoE would have significantly less powerful mechanics, such as a slow effect, or maybe preventing skulks from walking on walls for a few seconds.
These are some of the ideas we came up with. Feedback is welcome, and as always, good luck on NS2.
Comments
he would grow something like a turtle shell (decresing his move speed by a lot<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
this has been mentioned in prev topics (eyes glow with SOF for example) but i like your visual idea better. i'm not sure how hard it would be for the dev's to create heaps of different skins for the same alien, or if it would be worth the effort... but i'd like to see it. and i love the idea of a gorgy having a shell <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Parasite functions the way it always has, but is removable by, either an upgradable "catpack" type device, or (more likely) a CC or armory upgrade. In exchange (and the real point), the parasite has a 30 second (more or less) incubation time. If it incubates, then at any point after that 30-second window, while the marine is still breathing, an alien in the spawn queue can "burrow" out of the incubated marine, replacing his spawn with a spawn point at that marine, and, likely, killing the rine (as a heavy, if applicable).<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
this is awesome, especially how someone in the spawn queue pops out after a while.
it shouldnt replace parasite though, parasite is already extremely effective (despite being barely used), and i would like it to work the same way in NS2. maybe the chest popper ability could be an extra upgrade, that way the marine wouldnt know if he has a normal parasite or a gestating alien, until his chest explodes.
the alien that pops out shouldnt have much hp (maybe 40-50), but should move quickly. also the alien in the spawn queue should be able to see inside the marines chest (sorta like the onos belly), so he has advance warning that he wont be a skulk when he spawns. and maybe give the player the option to change back to the hive spawn queue, in case he wants to be a normal skulk.
it could even be a new ability for a totally new alien?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->he gets hit with an ice nade, he's frozen in pristine condition, and one bullet would shatter him into little skulk pieces.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this would be amazing to see in-game. maybe if a bigger lifeform is on low hp (about 50) and hit with a frosty nade, it would have the same effect? i'd love to shatter a fade <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/fade.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::fade::" border="0" alt="fade.gif" />
it doesnt have to be a nade either, it could be a fire extinguisher looking thing that spews out liquid nitrogen, that would be more effective than a nade at killing DI. but then again, everyone would prefer the long awaited flame thrower....
all in all, some very good ideas, nice post.
edit: lol i suck at multiple quotes...
this would be amazing to see in-game. maybe if a bigger lifeform is on low hp (about 50) and hit with a frosty nade, it would have the same effect? i'd love to shatter a fade fade.gif <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha fade got [ice]cubed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would reduce damage by ~90% for a gorge shell, but allow the comm to upgrade gravity guns to knock him over and attack him from underneath.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I predict a new game mode of "flip the gorge".