Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
edited February 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1609494:date=Feb 26 2007, 12:43 PM:name=Haze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haze @ Feb 26 2007, 12:43 PM) [snapback]1609494[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If it worsens in the future, maybe instead of taking away every piece of equipment that a person could possibly fathom (we might have to fly naked!) they might just have to start putting armed soldier's on the plane. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd sign up for that job. I like flying.
edit: but I also like firing my weapon. A lot. I might need some reeducation.
There's really no point in screening for anything except explosives. Anyone who tried to take a plane today, whether they have a pair of nail clippers or a pistol, would get the crap beaten out of them by the passengers. The only reason the same thing didn't happen on 9/11 was because they didn't know the terrorists were going to fly into a building; they thought they were just hostages. When they DID figure out on that one flight (United 93 or whatever) they beat the crap out of the terrorists. Obviously nowadays anyone who tries to hijack a plane is just going to get the beatdown, so all you have to really worry about are bombs.
AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
And concealed fire. In jars. This one time, I totally forgot I had brought some fire for the trip, then I got checked and they totally found the fire. Put it out and everything. Good thing Iam so good at starting fires.
i flew to austria and back completely ignorant about the new guidelines on what youre allowed to take onboard (no liquids, no lighters for example) and passed through everything.
BlooVillage Fool of UWFJoin Date: 2006-11-09Member: 58497Members
This one time, I was going trough the security control. behind the counter, sat this old little man which looked real serious and all. (At the time i was wearing a brown leather jacket and looked quite MacGuyver-ish) Then, for no particular reason I asked him in a sarcastic manner: "Sooo... Found any anthrax today?"
He suddenly turned red (Angry) and said: "You shouldn't joke about those things!" I was taken into this room, where they searched my clothes and hand luggage.
<!--quoteo(post=1609494:date=Feb 26 2007, 09:43 PM:name=Haze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haze @ Feb 26 2007, 09:43 PM) [snapback]1609494[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If it worsens in the future, maybe instead of taking away every piece of equipment that a person could possibly fathom (we might have to fly naked!) they might just have to start putting armed soldier's on the plane. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, but we'd have to remain chained to the chairs or we could steal the soldiers' rifles.
<!--quoteo(post=1609642:date=Feb 27 2007, 07:43 AM:name=Bloo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bloo @ Feb 27 2007, 07:43 AM) [snapback]1609642[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> This one time, I was going trough the security control. behind the counter, sat this old little man which looked real serious and all. (At the time i was wearing a brown leather jacket and looked quite MacGuyver-ish) Then, for no particular reason I asked him in a sarcastic manner: "Sooo... Found any anthrax today?" <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're such a dangerous bad***.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1609645:date=Feb 27 2007, 04:55 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 27 2007, 04:55 AM) [snapback]1609645[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Yeah, but we'd have to remain chained to the chairs or we could steal the soldiers' rifles. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Something tells me the weapon wouldn't be a rifle, but probably a combination of a pistol and then some less-lethal weapons like a tazer. There's absolutely no room for a rifle on an airplane.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
I can safely say the TSA or whoever was in charge of the armed man onboard would have absolutely NO desire to outfit them with a submachinegun. Out of all the angles at which the gunman could fire his weapon, a huge portion of them are occupied by the upper bodies of the plane's passengers. A weapon that can even be switched to fully-automatic would never, ever be approved for an onboard guard.
The likely SOP for the guard would be this:
1) draw sidearm, attain INSTANT fire superiority 2) talk down terrorist 3) detain terrorist 4) tell flight crew to ground the plane as soon as possible to remove the terrorist
After all, what could the terrorist do? Take a boxcutter to someone's neck and hold them hostage? That's a very simple situation for a negotiator. No matter what the results, the terrorist will always be at a disadvantage.
you don't have to fit it with lethal rounds. rubber seems to stop people pretty quick; pepperballs work well, too. plus, a weapon with a burst or auto function gives you some measure of tactical flexibility when engaging multiple targets or attempting to deliver suppression or indirect fire.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1609715:date=Feb 27 2007, 11:11 AM:name=Black_Mage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black_Mage @ Feb 27 2007, 11:11 AM) [snapback]1609715[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a weapon with a burst or auto function gives you some measure of tactical flexibility when engaging multiple targets or attempting to deliver suppression or indirect fire. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You seem to have missed my point: firing the weapon onboard the plane is the very LAST resort. There will be no "suppressive or indirect fire (indirect fire meaning grenades/mortar/artillery)" rofl... the passenger compartment of a plane is not a fking combat zone XD Take it from me, buddy. They teach us this kind of stuff in the military. Escalation of force, rules of engagement, authorized deadly force, etc. They won't put a submachinegun on a plane until terrorists show up on the plane with submachineguns. After that day they might consider it. Until then, a small-caliber pistol is the weapon for an onboard guard, for these reasons:
1) A commonly seen weapon that is not intimidating to normal passengers 2) Somewhat low-key should the guard be in plainclothes 3) Lower ammunition capacity and semi-automatic fire necessitates clean and well-placed shots 4) Above 3 properties were most likely the only way the carrying of a firearm by Air Marshals even passed legislature!
It's not about tactical superiority, Black_Mage. It's about bureaucracy, CYA, and red tape. The present-day result?
<!--QuoteBegin-Federal Air Marshal Service+ wiki--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Federal Air Marshal Service @ wiki)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Federal Air Marshals carry the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_P229" target="_blank">SIG-Sauer P229</a> service pistol in a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_SIG" target="_blank">.357 SIG</a> chambering.<a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-07-air-marshals_x.htm" target="_blank">[3]</a> Each magazine of the pistol carries 12 <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_%28firearms%29" target="_blank">rounds</a>. As noted above, Air Marshals must be re-certified on their firearm quarterly. According to an anonymous Air Marshal, they are trained to "shoot to stop", typically firing at the largest part of the body (the chest) and then the head to "incapacitate the nervous system".<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal#_note-usaspot" target="_blank">[6]</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->On the ground, nobody cares what you carry. I carry an M16 about 5 days a week, within a few hundred yards of a base housing complex where families live. Onboard a plane is a whole different matter. The day an Air Marshal needs to fire at multiple targets and, firing his weapon on burst during a sudden jolt of turbulence, pegs an old lady in the head with a rubber bullet, killing her, is something that is <i>terrifying</i> to the people in charge. They'll never let it happen.
Although the likelyhood of an air marshal ever needing to go Air Force One on a terrorist is almost nil, because like I already said, hijacking a plane is a no-win situation in America these days. You're best off blowing the thing to bits, which an air marshal can't do anything about as long as you don't ask him to hold the plastic explosives while you prime the fuse or something.
Comments
I'd sign up for that job. I like flying.
edit: but I also like firing my weapon. A lot. I might need some reeducation.
This one time, I totally forgot I had brought some fire for the trip, then I got checked and they totally found the fire. Put it out and everything.
Good thing Iam so good at starting fires.
He suddenly turned red (Angry) and said: "You shouldn't joke about those things!" I was taken into this room, where they searched my clothes and hand luggage.
If it worsens in the future, maybe instead of taking away every piece of equipment that a person could possibly fathom (we might have to fly naked!) they might just have to start putting armed soldier's on the plane.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but we'd have to remain chained to the chairs or we could steal the soldiers' rifles.
This one time, I was going trough the security control. behind the counter, sat this old little man which looked real serious and all. (At the time i was wearing a brown leather jacket and looked quite MacGuyver-ish) Then, for no particular reason I asked him in a sarcastic manner: "Sooo... Found any anthrax today?"
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're such a dangerous bad***.
Yeah, but we'd have to remain chained to the chairs or we could steal the soldiers' rifles. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Something tells me the weapon wouldn't be a rifle, but probably a combination of a pistol and then some less-lethal weapons like a tazer. There's absolutely no room for a rifle on an airplane.
The likely SOP for the guard would be this:
1) draw sidearm, attain INSTANT fire superiority
2) talk down terrorist
3) detain terrorist
4) tell flight crew to ground the plane as soon as possible to remove the terrorist
After all, what could the terrorist do? Take a boxcutter to someone's neck and hold them hostage? That's a very simple situation for a negotiator. No matter what the results, the terrorist will always be at a disadvantage.
1) A commonly seen weapon that is not intimidating to normal passengers
2) Somewhat low-key should the guard be in plainclothes
3) Lower ammunition capacity and semi-automatic fire necessitates clean and well-placed shots
4) Above 3 properties were most likely the only way the carrying of a firearm by Air Marshals even passed legislature!
It's not about tactical superiority, Black_Mage. It's about bureaucracy, CYA, and red tape. The present-day result?
<!--QuoteBegin-Federal Air Marshal Service+ wiki--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Federal Air Marshal Service @ wiki)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Federal Air Marshals carry the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_P229" target="_blank">SIG-Sauer P229</a> service pistol in a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_SIG" target="_blank">.357 SIG</a> chambering.<a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-07-air-marshals_x.htm" target="_blank">[3]</a> Each magazine of the pistol carries 12 <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_%28firearms%29" target="_blank">rounds</a>. As noted above, Air Marshals must be re-certified on their firearm quarterly. According to an anonymous Air Marshal, they are trained to "shoot to stop", typically firing at the largest part of the body (the chest) and then the head to "incapacitate the nervous system".<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal#_note-usaspot" target="_blank">[6]</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->On the ground, nobody cares what you carry. I carry an M16 about 5 days a week, within a few hundred yards of a base housing complex where families live. Onboard a plane is a whole different matter. The day an Air Marshal needs to fire at multiple targets and, firing his weapon on burst during a sudden jolt of turbulence, pegs an old lady in the head with a rubber bullet, killing her, is something that is <i>terrifying</i> to the people in charge. They'll never let it happen.