we all know that basic skulks are the only unit that can fight marines in really early games (<4:00) while marines will not have any tech or a few. in later games we will have leap, fades and onos which will do the job while marines will have hmgs and jps to counter. its very natural to limit the discussion of "underpowered" skulks in early games as in late games, skulks tend to be a support unit to help out gorges, fades and onos in later game and it is clearly know that if u have no 2 hives or fades in later game (>6:00), the team is probably 99% losing, ignoring miracles. here i am talking about a general setting of server, that is from 8vs8 to 10vs10, with an average player skill level, not competitive players aiming like bots or nub sxxts that can never aim but the middle class that has an ok level of aiming.
so what do skulks do in the early game, definitely rushing towards marines like a 100m runner is not a solution since marine knows how to aim. and it is clearly known that marine has a distance benefit over skulks as skulks can only bite or parasite which has a ridiculously low damage and it isnt supposed to be killing. hence the skulk only choice is to bite. the main point how to limit this benefit of marine. there are a lot of solution, cloaking, silence, carapace or ambush. on a 1vs1 case, the balance is slightly sided to aliens. how about with groups of marines? ambush together. or better, get celerity. many people argue that skulks wont hold long but that doesnt matter. soon, hive would be built and fades with pop up, even better will be a lerk. at that time, aliens would have to work together even more closer. this is what ns supposed to be, teamwork. i wonder why so many people are considering the case like every marine kharaa encounter is a 1vs1 case. if aliens are working separately, as someone who is participating in this debate, u r at least experienced, so get someone who can work with u together or at least teach them why working together is good before u realize they are nubs and hence f4. if they encounter vets, tell them to look for articles to learn bhop or use celerity. as long as skulks follow this, i guess there will be no problem for aliens to hold off marines until a 2nd hive or fade pop up.
and of course skulks are weak to heavy armors or anything advanced u name it. and so do lmgs, u have to consider. thats why we need onos and fades. u may argue that a group of lv3 lmgs may shoot down a average fade, but so do a group of skulks with 2 upgrades and leap against one average jp or ha, the possibility exists.
however, i do agree that 3.2 is not tested by most of the players of ns. see how much 3.2 bete servers there were. and i agree that the game should be balanced on average pub instead of the competitive community, if the devs really want more people to play and have fun out of this game. but so sad that only people who are involved in the community knows about 3.2 beta and more importantly, only a minority played it.
last but not least, i really hate people who are trying to be so funny and cannot stand people on the opposite side of the debate. perhaps he/they should suggest ways to change instead of purely complaining like theres no tomorrow.
<!--quoteo(post=1611750:date=Mar 6 2007, 02:08 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Mar 6 2007, 02:08 AM) [snapback]1611750[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Ambushing is a joke in this game. You try and cloak and your sound gives you away. Or they scan, nade or randomly shoot you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> it's pretty clear you can't grasp even the basics of ns. i'm finding it very difficult to take the rest of your post seriously after reading this. seriously, learn to play ns. get some demos from <a href="http://ensl.zanith.nl/index.php?view=demos" target="_blank">http://ensl.zanith.nl/index.php?view=demos</a> and watch pantsu and tane skulk or something...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But I do believe that 1 skulk can not stand a chance against 1 marine. This goes against the marines need teamwork motto, which is about as much teamwork as two people on the same team in CS...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> so you've never soloed a marine as a skulk? well done. let me give you a hint: ambush him.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't balance this game on a dying competitive community. Find a way to make the game playable with people of all skill ranges. So it's not as simply as saying a skulk is balanced or not, it's the player skills that need to be taken into consideration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> where did you get the idea that the competetive community is dying? you're not even a part of it. how the ###### would you know how dead it is or isn't... and your argument is just ridiculous. the game is playable for people of all skill ranges. it's when two people with an enormous skill gap between them face each other that seems to be the problem. yet it isn't.
i hop on cs pubs occasionally and manage to rack up kills and hold my own against players that are worse than me or my level. but when some clanner, he doesn't need to be cpl level either, comes in i'm done for. do i whine about this? no i do not.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll bring up an example. RFK. Sure it helps larger games, but the factor they missed out on is player skill. I just played a game where marines should have dominated, but 1 extremely good fade with a 50-8 score halted advancement from their base. In this case, RFK becomes abused. It does not evenly distribute res, but puts it into the one skilled player. But it can also swing the other way for the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> what the hell does that have to do with rfk? he wouldve killed those marines either way. and by the way, if you have 100 res (which i guess the fade did) then all other res you get (from rfk) is distributed to your team mates.
i'd also like to add that one of the redeeming factors of playing aliens on a pub is that you get to keep what res you get from kills. i'd probably quit ns if i had to watch my rfk go to some ###### gorge patrol that has no clue over the game and just proceeds to drop oc's in keyhole or something equally stupid. every single round.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We have people arguing about certain things, but the fact is that player skill is the variable that changes everything. Should an average skilled player beat and another? What about a skilled player? Should a skilled rock beat an average paper?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> scissors paper rock takes skill you know. maybe not over the internet but thats not how you play it. over the internet you play games that exercise and improve your skills.
------bottom line------ making the skulk more intuitive is all good, but i'm strongly against buffing it in any other way (speed/hp/you name it). because it doesn't need a buff like that.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For all you purists, yes, I realize NS is meant to be played 6v6. But you guys need to get real. The majority of the NS community plays on servers that are 16 players or more. The most popular servers have 24 slots or more. Anything less and the servers don't get filled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS is indeed balanced at 6 v 6. The majority of the NS community also does generally play on 16+ player servers, and you're right in saying that the most popular exceed even this maximum. But is this type of scenario with a low balanced playermax and high average playermax common?
Nearly all major first person, competitive shooters played online today use this low/high setup:
Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, Tom Clancy games (any), Unreal Tournament (any)
This is also discounting non-first-person genres such as strategy (which seldom remains balanced beyond 2v2).
By suggesting that Natural Selection's balancing has been done wrong, you're also suggesting that at least four other very popular games need to revamp their balancing systems completely for public online play, solely because the game doesn't remain perfectly balanced in large games.
<!--quoteo(post=1611762:date=Mar 6 2007, 02:42 AM:name=enigma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enigma @ Mar 6 2007, 02:42 AM) [snapback]1611762[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> kiddo, you can't balance ns for both large and small servers. realistically, it's much easier to fill smaller servers than large ones, which is probably why the devs chose to balance the game for lower player counts. g4b2s players have no right to cry about balance when they play on an inherently unbalanced 30 slot server <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's easier to join a smaller server because nobody plays on smaller servers. The smallest server out there that people play has 16 slots. Everything else has 20 or more.
I'm tired of all this ambush nonsense. Do you think I DON'T try to ambush? Do you think I'm just blindly making a beeline for a marine out in open ground? But ambushing means two things:
1. The marine is advancing into enemy territory. 2. I am in a position to ambush the marine.
Skulks are just a bit under 50% faster than a marine. That's ridiculous considering the description of the skulk as a scout/reconaissance unit. It's even more ridiculous considering that 1/5 of your LMG clip can kill a skulk in less than a second.
Nobody is going to stack aliens without the intention of going fade or lerk or something like that. Yet a vet can stack the marine team, never even get a shotgun, and still manage to have a good time because killing skulks is easy throughout the entire game.
I'm not saying that balance should be centered around 32 player servers. I'm not saying that I should be able to kill very good marines as a skulk. But what I am saying is that aliens will always be weak in public play if their base unit is extraordinarily weak compared to the base unit of the marine and that steps need to be made to correct that disparity.
For the sake of public play, buff the skulk to the point where marines have to stick in groups to stand a good chance. I really don't care how it's done as long as it's done.
Skulks were viable and able to take down marines in 3.1 at 1 hive since their hitboxes were ###### up. It was like having a small shield over them. Now that the hitboxes are fixed they're even easier to kill. There isn't a reason why a marine with a lvl 0 lmg shouldn't be able to kill multiple skulks at a time,ambush or not, in 3.2.
imo its the marines movement that makes life so much harder for a skulk, not because the skulk is weak in stats.
How many times you have you tried to ambush a marine, just to have him/her instantly jump backwards or to the side, gaining more than enough distance to be able to nail you before you can land another bite?
A marine just has to sidestrafe/jump likes hes on freakin crack while shooting to down a skulk, easily done. The skulk has to close the distance, track the bhoping rine AND try to dodge some bullets at the same time, which is pretty counterintuitive.
Although im one of these guys like to jump around as marine, i still think its just bloody stupid, and gives an unneeded advantage.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good arguement, nicely structured and laid out. Your judicious use of evidence was most impressive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I veto this discussion because it's stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, and that WAS? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Refer to the ultranewb post quoted earlier everybody, that absolutely hits the nail on the head. And rapier, I'm going to stalk you on steam friends and skulk the crap out of you til you think otherwise <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1611605:date=Mar 5 2007, 07:00 PM:name=Rapier7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rapier7 @ Mar 5 2007, 07:00 PM) [snapback]1611605[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For all you purists, yes, I realize NS is meant to be played 6v6. But you guys need to get real. The majority of the NS community plays on servers that are 16 players or more. The most popular servers have 24 slots or more. Anything less and the servers don't get filled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We <b>are</b> real. The small servers <b>do</b> get populated <i>when they have good administration</i>. You're the one living in Wonderland playing on cancerously oversized servers.
<!--quoteo(post=1611876:date=Mar 6 2007, 11:25 PM:name=Rapier7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rapier7 @ Mar 6 2007, 11:25 PM) [snapback]1611876[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> When the cancer is larger than the healthy tissue, by your definition, then we need to rewrite Gray's Anatomy now, don't we? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The Show's name is Grey's anatomy. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
How about you being such a dumb###### and listen to what I'm saying?
"Gray's Anatomy" is the shorthand for Henry Gray's Anatomy of the Human Body, the definitive medical textbook on the human body, on which that pathetic TV show is based.
It also sounds like all of these skulk nay-sayers have never heard of the 'parasite' ability. Perhaps its just beyond their tactical ability to whip out, para, whip back into cover, and then easily ambush. Or even ask for and get Scent. Or ANY upgrade, for that matter.
Hey Kiddo, atta boy, im glad to see that you're illiterate and can't read what i said. I SAID that i'm completely disagreeing with the entire g4b2s forum community, because everyone on there is simply going batsh** insane over 3.2 and feeding off of each other. Every post made about how aliens never win and are completely useless is absolutely contradicted every time i play on that server, where i go aliens for four games straight and we just happen to win 3 of them. Im not saying it was all me at all... just that the games ive seen, the balance has been just fine.
<!--quoteo(post=1611813:date=Mar 6 2007, 09:51 AM:name=Reeke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Reeke @ Mar 6 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]1611813[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> imo its the marines movement that makes life so much harder for a skulk, not because the skulk is weak in stats.
How many times you have you tried to ambush a marine, just to have him/her instantly jump backwards or to the side, gaining more than enough distance to be able to nail you before you can land another bite?
A marine just has to sidestrafe/jump likes hes on freakin crack while shooting to down a skulk, easily done. The skulk has to close the distance, track the bhoping rine AND try to dodge some bullets at the same time, which is pretty counterintuitive.
Although im one of these guys like to jump around as marine, i still think its just bloody stupid, and gives an unneeded advantage. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting point Reeke, I didn't think of that. But now that you say it... It makes a lot of sense. It really ruins the immersion of the game too with marines bhopping like CS freaks. Perhaps implementing a DOD stamina system would solve that?
<!--quoteo(post=1611945:date=Mar 7 2007, 02:40 AM:name=Rapier7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rapier7 @ Mar 7 2007, 02:40 AM) [snapback]1611945[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> How about you being such a dumb###### and listen to what I'm saying?
"Gray's Anatomy" is the shorthand for Henry Gray's Anatomy of the Human Body, the definitive medical textbook on the human body, on which that pathetic TV show is based. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke" target="_blank">joke</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm" target="_blank">sarcasm</a> are two words you just might want to look up.
<!--quoteo(post=1612085:date=Mar 7 2007, 08:49 AM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Mar 7 2007, 08:49 AM) [snapback]1612085[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Interesting point Reeke, I didn't think of that. But now that you say it... It makes a lot of sense. It really ruins the immersion of the game too with marines bhopping like CS freaks. Perhaps implementing a DOD stamina system would solve that? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting suggestion, but this would probably piss off a lot of people. (Not pointing at anybody specific)
i did nothing BUT bhop and wiggle strafe in my cs days <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1612182:date=Mar 7 2007, 04:11 PM:name=Reeke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Reeke @ Mar 7 2007, 04:11 PM) [snapback]1612182[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i did nothing BUT bhop and wiggle strafe in my cs days <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, that was back in the days. Try doing it in CS now.
<!--quoteo(post=1612167:date=Mar 7 2007, 01:33 PM:name=Rapier7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rapier7 @ Mar 7 2007, 01:33 PM) [snapback]1612167[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I just assume everybody's an idiot. It usually works out that way. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Except for when youre playing aliens... OHSNAP!
<!--quoteo(post=1612167:date=Mar 7 2007, 02:33 PM:name=Rapier7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rapier7 @ Mar 7 2007, 02:33 PM) [snapback]1612167[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I just assume everybody's an idiot. It usually works out that way. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes,basing intelligence on ingame score for instance. that and raging at your teammates constantly. the reason noone takes you seriously or dont listen to what you say. they all have you on mute!
anyway. with that kind of mentality, im surprised you even play online games, AT ALL!
<!--quoteo(post=1612187:date=Mar 7 2007, 11:02 AM:name=coris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(coris @ Mar 7 2007, 11:02 AM) [snapback]1612187[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Yeah, that was back in the days. Try doing it in CS now. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that's the point. Goose probably ###### off a ######load of fringe gamers in that respect when he took b-hopping and strafe jumping out, but it was done ultimately to progress the game.
Crack jumping marines is just BS.
And, Femme, it doesn't matter to me if I rage at my teammates or complain when they do something stupid <b>as long as I'm right</b>. Plus NS is (usually) a fun game to play. Now GTFO of this thread if you've got nothing else to say.
well you're not right in this thread especially with this version
skulks more than anything , racks up the most kills. get 3 hives, and xeno will kill off the current versions marine team. Fades and lerks depend more than ever on skulks, for being the diversion and edge to successfully repel marines. if you can coordinate this, you got yourself a very powerful flock of skulks. ofcourse skulks are weak against HMG. basic lifeform duh. it's like having marines running around without an armslab and bumping into fades.
<!--quoteo(post=1612085:date=Mar 7 2007, 07:49 AM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Mar 7 2007, 07:49 AM) [snapback]1612085[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Interesting point Reeke, I didn't think of that. But now that you say it... It makes a lot of sense. It really ruins the immersion of the game too with marines bhopping like CS freaks. Perhaps implementing a DOD stamina system would solve that? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AH, This is the most sane post I've seen. Everyone else here is out for the troll, agreeing with the topic starter(Who is right on the important points, but is still a nubbins.) or have their heads so far up the Dev's waste depository that they're tasting trachea.
Yea, the DoD stamina system would be interesting. I often believed that a good way to solve problems with armory humping and the like would be to have ammunition past 2 reloads would slow you down, unless you were in a heavy. HMGs would need to be a special case, but o well.
for example, 50 in the clip, 100 extra for the LMG being the max before you start slowing down..
Shotguns, 8 in the gun, 16 on standby, so on so forth.
Also, I want my Anti Onos Harpoon. Stick to the wall, than shoot into an onos. Hold them still!
(PS: People HAVE played this game for more than 4 days. Its called, "The last 2 months".)
No, skulks are useless without lerks or fades. I can go 5:1 on that server with an LMG simply because skulks are too easy to kill. Why do peopel stack marines? So they can kill stuff, the goal of any FPS.
Saying that skulks are okay because they get the majority of kills is retarded. At any given time, at least half the alien team is a skulk. So I would hope that half the alien team didn't have to RELY ON ONE OR TWO UBER-LEET FADES AND LERKS to pull the game for them.
But that's usually what happens. And it's great for those who are good at the game, but it's crappy for everybody else.
By the way, everything else in your post is completely wrong or fallacious.
Fades and lerks are the distraction, not the other way around.
Three hive xenoskulks are obviously going to kill a bunch of crap BECAUSE YOU HAVE THREE HIVES. That's a game ender for aliens.
I never meant for skulks to be on par with HMGs, but they shouldn't die by the boatload to them. And it shouldn't be that I can take out 2 skulks with an LMG clip, get change on the third, then pistol whip the third to finish him off.
I'm a populist here. Power to the people. I want to see more emphasis on skulks being a more viable fighting unit instead of NEEDING 1 or 2 or even three UBERLEET fades and lerks to fight marines. Skulks are worthless on their own. And it's because of a large disparity between the marine and the skulk that should be corrected.
Or maybe I'll do what everybody else does and stack marines and get loads of kills off easy skulks.
lerks pulling games? fades pulling games? where the hell have you been hiding your face? up your ######?
this game relys more on teamwork than anything. especially now that aliens got modded.
skulks win games. reduced hitpoints on resnodes. baserushes,sc as first chamber. need i go on ?
they are free,they cost NO res. i dont see what you are moaning about. they deal good damage,and perfect ambushers. just because you cant play one,because you res###### till you could go fade or lerk. doesnt mean they are crap. get a grip
Comments
we all know that basic skulks are the only unit that can fight marines in really early games (<4:00) while marines will not have any tech or a few. in later games we will have leap, fades and onos which will do the job while marines will have hmgs and jps to counter. its very natural to limit the discussion of "underpowered" skulks in early games as in late games, skulks tend to be a support unit to help out gorges, fades and onos in later game and it is clearly know that if u have no 2 hives or fades in later game (>6:00), the team is probably 99% losing, ignoring miracles. here i am talking about a general setting of server, that is from 8vs8 to 10vs10, with an average player skill level, not competitive players aiming like bots or nub sxxts that can never aim but the middle class that has an ok level of aiming.
so what do skulks do in the early game, definitely rushing towards marines like a 100m runner is not a solution since marine knows how to aim. and it is clearly known that marine has a distance benefit over skulks as skulks can only bite or parasite which has a ridiculously low damage and it isnt supposed to be killing. hence the skulk only choice is to bite. the main point how to limit this benefit of marine. there are a lot of solution, cloaking, silence, carapace or ambush. on a 1vs1 case, the balance is slightly sided to aliens. how about with groups of marines? ambush together. or better, get celerity. many people argue that skulks wont hold long but that doesnt matter. soon, hive would be built and fades with pop up, even better will be a lerk. at that time, aliens would have to work together even more closer. this is what ns supposed to be, teamwork. i wonder why so many people are considering the case like every marine kharaa encounter is a 1vs1 case. if aliens are working separately, as someone who is participating in this debate, u r at least experienced, so get someone who can work with u together or at least teach them why working together is good before u realize they are nubs and hence f4. if they encounter vets, tell them to look for articles to learn bhop or use celerity. as long as skulks follow this, i guess there will be no problem for aliens to hold off marines until a 2nd hive or fade pop up.
and of course skulks are weak to heavy armors or anything advanced u name it. and so do lmgs, u have to consider. thats why we need onos and fades. u may argue that a group of lv3 lmgs may shoot down a average fade, but so do a group of skulks with 2 upgrades and leap against one average jp or ha, the possibility exists.
however, i do agree that 3.2 is not tested by most of the players of ns. see how much 3.2 bete servers there were. and i agree that the game should be balanced on average pub instead of the competitive community, if the devs really want more people to play and have fun out of this game. but so sad that only people who are involved in the community knows about 3.2 beta and more importantly, only a minority played it.
last but not least, i really hate people who are trying to be so funny and cannot stand people on the opposite side of the debate. perhaps he/they should suggest ways to change instead of purely complaining like theres no tomorrow.
Ambushing is a joke in this game. You try and cloak and your sound gives you away. Or they scan, nade or randomly shoot you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's pretty clear you can't grasp even the basics of ns. i'm finding it very difficult to take the rest of your post seriously after reading this. seriously, learn to play ns. get some demos from <a href="http://ensl.zanith.nl/index.php?view=demos" target="_blank">http://ensl.zanith.nl/index.php?view=demos</a> and watch pantsu and tane skulk or something...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But I do believe that 1 skulk can not stand a chance against 1 marine. This goes against the marines need teamwork motto, which is about as much teamwork as two people on the same team in CS...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so you've never soloed a marine as a skulk? well done. let me give you a hint: ambush him.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't balance this game on a dying competitive community. Find a way to make the game playable with people of all skill ranges. So it's not as simply as saying a skulk is balanced or not, it's the player skills that need to be taken into consideration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
where did you get the idea that the competetive community is dying? you're not even a part of it. how the ###### would you know how dead it is or isn't... and your argument is just ridiculous. the game is playable for people of all skill ranges. it's when two people with an enormous skill gap between them face each other that seems to be the problem. yet it isn't.
i hop on cs pubs occasionally and manage to rack up kills and hold my own against players that are worse than me or my level. but when some clanner, he doesn't need to be cpl level either, comes in i'm done for. do i whine about this? no i do not.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll bring up an example. RFK. Sure it helps larger games, but the factor they missed out on is player skill. I just played a game where marines should have dominated, but 1 extremely good fade with a 50-8 score halted advancement from their base. In this case, RFK becomes abused. It does not evenly distribute res, but puts it into the one skilled player. But it can also swing the other way for the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what the hell does that have to do with rfk? he wouldve killed those marines either way. and by the way, if you have 100 res (which i guess the fade did) then all other res you get (from rfk) is distributed to your team mates.
i'd also like to add that one of the redeeming factors of playing aliens on a pub is that you get to keep what res you get from kills. i'd probably quit ns if i had to watch my rfk go to some ###### gorge patrol that has no clue over the game and just proceeds to drop oc's in keyhole or something equally stupid. every single round.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We have people arguing about certain things, but the fact is that player skill is the variable that changes everything. Should an average skilled player beat and another? What about a skilled player? Should a skilled rock beat an average paper?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
scissors paper rock takes skill you know. maybe not over the internet but thats not how you play it. over the internet you play games that exercise and improve your skills.
------bottom line------
making the skulk more intuitive is all good, but i'm strongly against buffing it in any other way (speed/hp/you name it). because it doesn't need a buff like that.
NS is indeed balanced at 6 v 6. The majority of the NS community also does generally play on 16+ player servers, and you're right in saying that the most popular exceed even this maximum. But is this type of scenario with a low balanced playermax and high average playermax common?
Nearly all major first person, competitive shooters played online today use this low/high setup:
Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, Tom Clancy games (any), Unreal Tournament (any)
This is also discounting non-first-person genres such as strategy (which seldom remains balanced beyond 2v2).
By suggesting that Natural Selection's balancing has been done wrong, you're also suggesting that at least four other very popular games need to revamp their balancing systems completely for public online play, solely because the game doesn't remain perfectly balanced in large games.
In my opinion, thats just silly.
Gun
kiddo, you can't balance ns for both large and small servers. realistically, it's much easier to fill smaller servers than large ones, which is probably why the devs chose to balance the game for lower player counts. g4b2s players have no right to cry about balance when they play on an inherently unbalanced 30 slot server
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It's easier to join a smaller server because nobody plays on smaller servers. The smallest server out there that people play has 16 slots. Everything else has 20 or more.
I'm tired of all this ambush nonsense. Do you think I DON'T try to ambush? Do you think I'm just blindly making a beeline for a marine out in open ground? But ambushing means two things:
1. The marine is advancing into enemy territory.
2. I am in a position to ambush the marine.
Skulks are just a bit under 50% faster than a marine. That's ridiculous considering the description of the skulk as a scout/reconaissance unit. It's even more ridiculous considering that 1/5 of your LMG clip can kill a skulk in less than a second.
Nobody is going to stack aliens without the intention of going fade or lerk or something like that. Yet a vet can stack the marine team, never even get a shotgun, and still manage to have a good time because killing skulks is easy throughout the entire game.
I'm not saying that balance should be centered around 32 player servers. I'm not saying that I should be able to kill very good marines as a skulk. But what I am saying is that aliens will always be weak in public play if their base unit is extraordinarily weak compared to the base unit of the marine and that steps need to be made to correct that disparity.
For the sake of public play, buff the skulk to the point where marines have to stick in groups to stand a good chance. I really don't care how it's done as long as it's done.
How many times you have you tried to ambush a marine, just to have him/her instantly jump backwards or to the side, gaining more than enough distance to be able to nail you before you can land another bite?
A marine just has to sidestrafe/jump likes hes on freakin crack while shooting to down a skulk, easily done. The skulk has to close the distance, track the bhoping rine AND try to dodge some bullets at the same time, which is pretty counterintuitive.
Although im one of these guys like to jump around as marine, i still think its just bloody stupid, and gives an unneeded advantage.
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Oh, and that WAS? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Refer to the ultranewb post quoted earlier everybody, that absolutely hits the nail on the head. And rapier, I'm going to stalk you on steam friends and skulk the crap out of you til you think otherwise <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
We <b>are</b> real. The small servers <b>do</b> get populated <i>when they have good administration</i>. You're the one living in Wonderland playing on cancerously oversized servers.
When the cancer is larger than the healthy tissue, by your definition, then we need to rewrite Gray's Anatomy now, don't we?
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The Show's name is Grey's anatomy. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
"Gray's Anatomy" is the shorthand for Henry Gray's Anatomy of the Human Body, the definitive medical textbook on the human body, on which that pathetic TV show is based.
It also sounds like all of these skulk nay-sayers have never heard of the 'parasite' ability. Perhaps its just beyond their tactical ability to whip out, para, whip back into cover, and then easily ambush. Or even ask for and get Scent. Or ANY upgrade, for that matter.
Hey Kiddo, atta boy, im glad to see that you're illiterate and can't read what i said. I SAID that i'm completely disagreeing with the entire g4b2s forum community, because everyone on there is simply going batsh** insane over 3.2 and feeding off of each other. Every post made about how aliens never win and are completely useless is absolutely contradicted every time i play on that server, where i go aliens for four games straight and we just happen to win 3 of them. Im not saying it was all me at all... just that the games ive seen, the balance has been just fine.
imo its the marines movement that makes life so much harder for a skulk, not because the skulk is weak in stats.
How many times you have you tried to ambush a marine, just to have him/her instantly jump backwards or to the side, gaining more than enough distance to be able to nail you before you can land another bite?
A marine just has to sidestrafe/jump likes hes on freakin crack while shooting to down a skulk, easily done. The skulk has to close the distance, track the bhoping rine AND try to dodge some bullets at the same time, which is pretty counterintuitive.
Although im one of these guys like to jump around as marine, i still think its just bloody stupid, and gives an unneeded advantage.
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Interesting point Reeke, I didn't think of that. But now that you say it... It makes a lot of sense. It really ruins the immersion of the game too with marines bhopping like CS freaks. Perhaps implementing a DOD stamina system would solve that?
How about you being such a dumb###### and listen to what I'm saying?
"Gray's Anatomy" is the shorthand for Henry Gray's Anatomy of the Human Body, the definitive medical textbook on the human body, on which that pathetic TV show is based.
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A <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke" target="_blank">joke</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm" target="_blank">sarcasm</a> are two words you just might want to look up.
Interesting point Reeke, I didn't think of that. But now that you say it... It makes a lot of sense. It really ruins the immersion of the game too with marines bhopping like CS freaks. Perhaps implementing a DOD stamina system would solve that?
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Interesting suggestion, but this would probably piss off a lot of people. (Not pointing at anybody specific)
i did nothing BUT bhop and wiggle strafe in my cs days <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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Yeah, that was back in the days. Try doing it in CS now.
I just assume everybody's an idiot. It usually works out that way.
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Except for when youre playing aliens... OHSNAP!
I just assume everybody's an idiot. It usually works out that way.
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yes,basing intelligence on ingame score for instance.
that and raging at your teammates constantly.
the reason noone takes you seriously or dont listen to what you say.
they all have you on mute!
anyway.
with that kind of mentality, im surprised you even play online games, AT ALL!
Yeah, that was back in the days. Try doing it in CS now.
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But that's the point. Goose probably ###### off a ######load of fringe gamers in that respect when he took b-hopping and strafe jumping out, but it was done ultimately to progress the game.
Crack jumping marines is just BS.
And, Femme, it doesn't matter to me if I rage at my teammates or complain when they do something stupid <b>as long as I'm right</b>. Plus NS is (usually) a fun game to play. Now GTFO of this thread if you've got nothing else to say.
BUFF SKULKS. RAAH!!!!
especially with this version
skulks more than anything , racks up the most kills.
get 3 hives, and xeno will kill off the current versions marine team.
Fades and lerks depend more than ever on skulks, for being the diversion and edge to successfully repel marines.
if you can coordinate this, you got yourself a very powerful flock of skulks.
ofcourse skulks are weak against HMG. basic lifeform duh.
it's like having marines running around without an armslab and bumping into fades.
Interesting point Reeke, I didn't think of that. But now that you say it... It makes a lot of sense. It really ruins the immersion of the game too with marines bhopping like CS freaks. Perhaps implementing a DOD stamina system would solve that?
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AH, This is the most sane post I've seen.
Everyone else here is out for the troll, agreeing with the topic starter(Who is right on the important points, but is still a nubbins.) or have their heads so far up the Dev's waste depository that they're tasting trachea.
Yea, the DoD stamina system would be interesting. I often believed that a good way to solve problems with armory humping and the like would be to have ammunition past 2 reloads would slow you down, unless you were in a heavy. HMGs would need to be a special case, but o well.
for example, 50 in the clip, 100 extra for the LMG being the max before you start slowing down..
Shotguns, 8 in the gun, 16 on standby, so on so forth.
Also, I want my Anti Onos Harpoon. Stick to the wall, than shoot into an onos. Hold them still!
(PS: People HAVE played this game for more than 4 days. Its called, "The last 2 months".)
Saying that skulks are okay because they get the majority of kills is retarded. At any given time, at least half the alien team is a skulk. So I would hope that half the alien team didn't have to RELY ON ONE OR TWO UBER-LEET FADES AND LERKS to pull the game for them.
But that's usually what happens. And it's great for those who are good at the game, but it's crappy for everybody else.
By the way, everything else in your post is completely wrong or fallacious.
Fades and lerks are the distraction, not the other way around.
Three hive xenoskulks are obviously going to kill a bunch of crap BECAUSE YOU HAVE THREE HIVES. That's a game ender for aliens.
I never meant for skulks to be on par with HMGs, but they shouldn't die by the boatload to them. And it shouldn't be that I can take out 2 skulks with an LMG clip, get change on the third, then pistol whip the third to finish him off.
I'm a populist here. Power to the people. I want to see more emphasis on skulks being a more viable fighting unit instead of NEEDING 1 or 2 or even three UBERLEET fades and lerks to fight marines. Skulks are worthless on their own. And it's because of a large disparity between the marine and the skulk that should be corrected.
Or maybe I'll do what everybody else does and stack marines and get loads of kills off easy skulks.
fades pulling games?
where the hell have you been hiding your face?
up your ######?
this game relys more on teamwork than anything.
especially now that aliens got modded.
skulks win games.
reduced hitpoints on resnodes.
baserushes,sc as first chamber.
need i go on ?
they are free,they cost NO res.
i dont see what you are moaning about.
they deal good damage,and perfect ambushers.
just because you cant play one,because you res###### till you could go fade or lerk. doesnt mean they are crap.
get a grip