<!--quoteo(post=1618619:date=Apr 3 2007, 08:28 AM:name=MrMakaveli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrMakaveli @ Apr 3 2007, 08:28 AM) [snapback]1618619[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> There's a German server with a plugin that basically rates every player on the team, and then adds it together to form your team's strength. The marines and aliens' team strength had to be somewhat even or else the server would F4 everyone. Well apparently I was equal to 14 players on that server, so they banned me because the server kept F4ing us. LoL Electrified RTs should really just be removed from the game. It's not that hard to send an LMG to save RTs. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i had "level" 60 and got instabanned too <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
You know I offered to fix that plugin for them... Instead they said something I didn't understand in German (other than the word ish-head) and kicked me.
<!--quoteo(post=1618619:date=Apr 3 2007, 09:28 AM:name=MrMakaveli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrMakaveli @ Apr 3 2007, 09:28 AM) [snapback]1618619[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Electrified RTs should really just be removed from the game. It's not that hard to send an LMG to save RTs. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But they are great for protecting a PG at a hive/important location. Faster than making your team stay there and build a TF, then turrets.
<!--quoteo(post=1618676:date=Apr 3 2007, 01:13 PM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Apr 3 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]1618676[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You know I offered to fix that plugin for them... Instead they said something I didn't understand in German (other than the word ish-head) and kicked me. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1618619:date=Apr 3 2007, 08:28 AM:name=MrMakaveli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrMakaveli @ Apr 3 2007, 08:28 AM) [snapback]1618619[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> There's a German server with a plugin that basically rates every player on the team, and then adds it together to form your team's strength. The marines and aliens' team strength had to be somewhat even or else the server would F4 everyone. Well apparently I was equal to 14 players on that server, so they banned me because the server kept F4ing us. LoL Electrified RTs should really just be removed from the game. It's not that hard to send an LMG to save RTs. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds like a kickass plugin. Well no it shouldn't insta-balance, but being able to see a team rank is good.
I agree with the elec RTs thing too. Makes more conflict between players over resources instead of build and forget. Also makes SC more viable.
<!--quoteo(post=1618897:date=Apr 4 2007, 05:28 PM:name=Dogg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dogg @ Apr 4 2007, 05:28 PM) [snapback]1618897[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> That sounds like a kickass plugin. Well no it shouldn't insta-balance, but being able to see a team rank is good. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it was a good prototype plugin. It needed a huge amount of tweaking still, but you are right about team rank visibility been a good thing on a dedicated server.
Ok, when did you send me an email? And i have NEVER banned someone because he wanted to help - the only reason this could happen would be because of something like that: "This plugin is bullish, give it me, i'll fix it". This is neither helping not constructive in ANY way. And there would be no ban, there would be a kick as maximum. Whatsoever, the system is already on the next phase, so you might know the older version, but not the newer ones.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I think it was a good prototype plugin. It needed a huge amount of tweaking still, but you are right about team rank visibility been a good thing on a dedicated server. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is far more than a prototype system. But you are right: You can't fit all. So i won't try.
*sigh* I think you are taking my posts the wrong way, SEK2000Blackhawk. I'm not the kind of person who get offended easily or acts offensive to others. I also said kick not ban. I'm not banned on any server to my knowledge. The only server I was ever banned on was the [ONe] TFC server which of course was banning everyone strongly better than them. Interesting that the went extinct a week or two later due to no traffic. But I'm way off topic... I'm not offended at all, suprised & confused a bit, just don't tell me what happened.
I also wasn't saying prototype as a bad thing. Did I not say that I thought it was a good plugin? To be more accurate, I think it has potential, but it's not refined, yet. It's good to hear you are still actively working on it. Keep up the good work.
In this case, I am sorry. But as you maybe read here and on other boards, there are a lot of people who dislike the system because of whatever reason they like. I'm a little bit tired of defending myself for something i think i have every right to do.
Also, the 1.04 converter pack was also a try to force more teamwork and communication. But i'm again tired of defending ideas and concepts against the 'skill'ed players' who don't like to get RFK removed etc.
Add a multiplier fraction to the spawn rate of aliens related to how many total players there are on the team and it just about balances the game out entirely from my experience at g4b2s. IE, at 12 players an alien spawns every 1/2 second. At 6 every 2 seconds. at 9 every 1...
Most of the other problematic things have accidental counters already. In large game alien starting res is massive compared to marine starting res, which counters slow individual res flow. Alien map control is greater because ninjas are much less effective, which counters weak early game skulks. The ability to drop OC's that are actually useful because of excessive starting res counters the need for early game fades. The utter chaos of having 5 skulks rush your group from all different directions at the same time and being followed up by endless streams of other skulks counters the ability for marines to form larger groups and do more direct multiplied fire on higher lifeforms. It takes some getting used to, new strats are nessicary, but there is large game balance with the exception of one issue. The fact that marines can dominate early game aliens in the spawning rate with the act of dropping more IPs. Aliens desperately need the ability to spawn faster in order to counter that one advantage. More players mean more deaths per minute, that's unavoidable.
I'd say the most important thing in these large games is territory control. It can easily shift in smaller games, but I would say larger games take longer to change.
In the early game, aliens had better go to the key areas of the map, say cargo in tanith, com core in eclipse or processing in hera, to get that down. If you leave marines alone for a while, then pretty soon, it's pg, tf and gg 2nd hive. Usually, skulks can get this down, but then there's that case of that good player that brings down a pack of skulks and takes that territory.
Marines are not only equipped enough to take down the common skulk, but they are in fact better at holding it. Long hallways? It's the perfect time for ranged weapons.
OCs can be great for holding areas at least until the second hive goes up. However, it can be a massive investment; you either go all into OCs or you don't bother at all. If you can hold an area though, this allows spawning aliens to run over to trouble areas, instead of allowing marines to overtake it.
If you have a good player, not only will he be generating a lot of res for his team, but he will have the element of territory control.
But this is the same for a good player on the alien team. A good skulk can grind down a huge group of marines on his own, generate enough rfk to go lerk or fade really quickly and then completely deny access to like half a map.
No, direct territory control really isn't that big of a deal in NS even on large servers. What does matter is indirect control of the map through pressure, and this is the goal of the early round marine gameplay.
Comments
There's a German server with a plugin that basically rates every player on the team, and then adds it together to form your team's strength. The marines and aliens' team strength had to be somewhat even or else the server would F4 everyone. Well apparently I was equal to 14 players on that server, so they banned me because the server kept F4ing us. LoL
Electrified RTs should really just be removed from the game. It's not that hard to send an LMG to save RTs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i had "level" 60 and got instabanned too <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Electrified RTs should really just be removed from the game. It's not that hard to send an LMG to save RTs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But they are great for protecting a PG at a hive/important location. Faster than making your team stay there and build a TF, then turrets.
You know I offered to fix that plugin for them... Instead they said something I didn't understand in German (other than the word ish-head) and kicked me.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can't belive that.
There's a German server with a plugin that basically rates every player on the team, and then adds it together to form your team's strength. The marines and aliens' team strength had to be somewhat even or else the server would F4 everyone. Well apparently I was equal to 14 players on that server, so they banned me because the server kept F4ing us. LoL
Electrified RTs should really just be removed from the game. It's not that hard to send an LMG to save RTs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds like a kickass plugin. Well no it shouldn't insta-balance, but being able to see a team rank is good.
I agree with the elec RTs thing too. Makes more conflict between players over resources instead of build and forget. Also makes SC more viable.
Can't belive that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh believe it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1618897:date=Apr 4 2007, 05:28 PM:name=Dogg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dogg @ Apr 4 2007, 05:28 PM) [snapback]1618897[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
That sounds like a kickass plugin. Well no it shouldn't insta-balance, but being able to see a team rank is good.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it was a good prototype plugin. It needed a huge amount of tweaking still, but you are right about team rank visibility been a good thing on a dedicated server.
Oh believe it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, when did you send me an email? And i have NEVER banned someone because he wanted to help - the only reason this could happen would be because of something like that: "This plugin is bullish, give it me, i'll fix it". This is neither helping not constructive in ANY way. And there would be no ban, there would be a kick as maximum.
Whatsoever, the system is already on the next phase, so you might know the older version, but not the newer ones.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I think it was a good prototype plugin. It needed a huge amount of tweaking still, but you are right about team rank visibility been a good thing on a dedicated server.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is far more than a prototype system. But you are right: You can't fit all. So i won't try.
I also wasn't saying prototype as a bad thing. Did I not say that I thought it was a good plugin? To be more accurate, I think it has potential, but it's not refined, yet. It's good to hear you are still actively working on it. Keep up the good work.
Also, the 1.04 converter pack was also a try to force more teamwork and communication. But i'm again tired of defending ideas and concepts against the 'skill'ed players' who don't like to get RFK removed etc.
Most of the other problematic things have accidental counters already. In large game alien starting res is massive compared to marine starting res, which counters slow individual res flow. Alien map control is greater because ninjas are much less effective, which counters weak early game skulks. The ability to drop OC's that are actually useful because of excessive starting res counters the need for early game fades. The utter chaos of having 5 skulks rush your group from all different directions at the same time and being followed up by endless streams of other skulks counters the ability for marines to form larger groups and do more direct multiplied fire on higher lifeforms. It takes some getting used to, new strats are nessicary, but there is large game balance with the exception of one issue. The fact that marines can dominate early game aliens in the spawning rate with the act of dropping more IPs. Aliens desperately need the ability to spawn faster in order to counter that one advantage. More players mean more deaths per minute, that's unavoidable.
[edit]mak: that german server thing is hilarious.
In the early game, aliens had better go to the key areas of the map, say cargo in tanith, com core in eclipse or processing in hera, to get that down. If you leave marines alone for a while, then pretty soon, it's pg, tf and gg 2nd hive. Usually, skulks can get this down, but then there's that case of that good player that brings down a pack of skulks and takes that territory.
Marines are not only equipped enough to take down the common skulk, but they are in fact better at holding it. Long hallways? It's the perfect time for ranged weapons.
OCs can be great for holding areas at least until the second hive goes up. However, it can be a massive investment; you either go all into OCs or you don't bother at all. If you can hold an area though, this allows spawning aliens to run over to trouble areas, instead of allowing marines to overtake it.
If you have a good player, not only will he be generating a lot of res for his team, but he will have the element of territory control.
No, direct territory control really isn't that big of a deal in NS even on large servers. What does matter is indirect control of the map through pressure, and this is the goal of the early round marine gameplay.