Within any of the three categories I mentioned will be a WIDE range of skill, so that's not really an issue. Say when you're in the top 5% of your category, you have the option to advance. Once you advance you play in that category (a minimum of 30 days say) before you could request demotion (IF you're in the bottom 5%).
Point is there will be a wide range of skill levels within each category.
First off, while I don't support indiscriminate banning, I fully support the right of a server operator banning anyone they want for any reason. While a warning is nice, it is NOT required. If people don't agree with that, then they can play on other servers. If you spam the chat, why should you get a warning? If you act in a way that intentionally interferes with the enjoyment of others, then you deserve a ban.
As for bans related to hacks, that's a bit more of a murky issue. The real problem with bans over suspected hacks is not the 'suspected hacks', but the fact that NS is so poorly balanced that it lends itself to a great disparity in gameplay. This almost always happens when people are playing marine, simply because marines are overpowered in public play by nature. I've never heard of anyone getting banned for 'hacks' as an alien, while I don't doubt it has happened, it's never happened while I've played, and I've been around since the beginning. (Yeah there are some people who are 'super fades', but any time I ever hear that accusation there is always an alien nerf around the corner, yet the same never happens in response to marines who seem to have 'JFK bullets' in their LMGs)
Here's the problem...
Let's say you are a skilled player, and you go marines and are 40-1 on the scoreboard, with the next best person 15-5. Many people will claim 'hacks', but let's stop for a moment and ask if that is <b>REALLY </b> the issue here. If that same person had a score of 10-10, would people be claiming 'hacks'? Whether or not a person is actually hacking seems to be second to the real issue, and that's that a single person can often totally screw over game balance. Does it <i>really</i> matter if they are using hacks or not? Not really.
Ask yourself this... If a person admitted that they used hacks, but had a score of 2-20 and were at the bottom of the score sheet, would people believe it or care? No. The concern of users with respect to supposed 'hacks' is that they impact gameplay for others, and diminish their enjoyment. A person who uses 'hacks' to gain an unfair advantage will outperform others. However, is there any <b>REAL </b> difference between a person that uses 'hacks' to get a 40-1 score and a person who is just insanely good?
No. The fact that one person uses hacks and one doesn't makes <b>NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER</b>. The impact on the game is <b>EXACTLY </b> the same, a person who performs at that level will screw game balance, no matter how they attain that score. The real problem with NS is that it actually allows people to get such insanely good scores without hacks, and so whether a person is hacking or not doesn't matter, the damage to game balance is already done.
If people are getting banned because their high level of skills gets them accused of 'hacks' then they should be blaming developers for the poor state of balance, and not blaming server operators who want to maintain some semblance of balanced play on their server. I won't derail this thread by talking about what I have talked about <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=4313247685851148288&showtopic=100703" target="_blank">here</a>, but the bottom line is that experienced players can master marines far too easily, and that can totally screw over any semblance of game balance. Frankly, I really don't care if a person hacks or not, if they have more kills than the rest of their team combined, then something is wrong with the game that it would allow balance to become so skewed.
Don't blame the server operators for trying to maintain some form of game balance in the face of a poorly balanced game - they are just trying to keep the game fun for the other players.
My two cents is that server admins are should serve their clients and be consistent in their policies.
I love to run a listen server with friendly fire on from time to time. The only sad thing is usually I never have enough people. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1613504:date=Mar 11 2007, 09:05 AM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Savant @ Mar 11 2007, 09:05 AM) [snapback]1613504[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> , but the bottom line is that experienced players can master marines far too easily, and that can totally screw over any semblance of game balance. Frankly, I really don't care if a person hacks or not, if they have more kills than the rest of their team combined, then something is wrong with the game that it would allow balance to become so skewed.
Don't blame the server operators for trying to maintain some form of game balance in the face of a poorly balanced game - they are just trying to keep the game fun for the other players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so if some players from a champions league level team were to go play in pub league teams and win every game 20-0 to their team it'd mean that soccer was unbalanced?
While i DO NOT agree with skilled players being banned, there does seem to be players that get "kicks" out of being accused of hacking, it's like it feeds their ego to join marines, destroy the server and get the admins/players ###### off.
Although not as common now, i have seen players over the years that where blatantly joining servers with this attitude, and they deserve all the perma bans they get IMO.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
edited March 2007
I don't think you really understand the problem. Basically, the pub game is completely unbalanced when there is a couple of decent players on marines. Whereas in 6v6 competitive everyone knows pretty much what is expected and can plan the team's actions, this is not the case in larger games. In larger games, the majority of players are cannonfodder to the competitive player. Average players compete reasonably well against average players. Average players fail against good players.
Now, you don't want to find yourself on an alien team in a large game where all the average marines stick together in masses and where your alien teammates rush these masses one by one in a straight line. Instead, you'd want to be on the marine team shooting these horrible skulks. This is especially the case if there are already some good people on the marine team. Not only do you have to contend with the bullets from the mass of average players, but you have the sharpshooters who will bring you down easily. There is no desire to be on a losing team. In 3.2, the aliens are nerfed further so there is even less desire to play on a pubber alien team.
What you're thinking is that competitive players should <b>work</b> to keep the game balanced. Why should anybody have do unfun work in a game that they're playing? It doesn't make sense unless you have some reason to make the sacrifice. Back in 3.1, I could pretty much carry my team with my fading, getting 100+/0 while the rest of the aliens would have scores of 9/4 or so, and I'd still lose - but at least it was fun to fight with that intensity and to actually make a difference which way the game was moving. Now in 3.2, there's fewer players and the fade has been nerfed for acceleration along with the other alien nerfs that I don't really like. If I were to play 3.2, I would prefer to play marines.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1613473:date=Mar 11 2007, 05:53 AM:name=kyliegirl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kyliegirl @ Mar 11 2007, 05:53 AM) [snapback]1613473[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <b> Its not that we dont want to improve, its because you dont even give us a chance to.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1613482:date=Mar 11 2007, 06:46 AM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Mar 11 2007, 06:46 AM) [snapback]1613482[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> On the contrary, playing against the good players is the best way to get better. How do you not have the chance to improve? I'd argue the opposite, in fact; a consistently good player is better practice than an inconsistently average player, because if you're testing out new tactics and strategies (And you should be. If you aren't, that's the reason you're not doing well), you want to be able to find something that works. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Different people have different learning styles. Some can analyze what's going on and why they are failing while the majority can't really perceive what they're doing wrong unless someone tells them and shows them. Getting killed over and over again often just annoys the players.
Honestly, if you were a pubber who didn't know how to bunnyhop and who didn't know the strange way that bite really works, do you think you'd ever be a decent skulk? Would you go and realize the counterintuitive nature of the bite actually being a ranged weapon? Also, do you realize that it's hard to face off against a good marine as a vanilla skulk even if you've done everything right? Are you going to sit and hide around a corner waiting to ambush this marine only to have him check your hiding spot and kill you? Or are you going to rely on rushing the marine with 3 other skulks (without bunnyhopping) and hope that you're not going to die?
Learning to play well as a marine is one thing. However, the game is completely backwards when it comes to learning how to play well as an alien.
<!--quoteo(post=1613353:date=Mar 10 2007, 04:27 PM:name=SEK2000Blackhawk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SEK2000Blackhawk @ Mar 10 2007, 04:27 PM) [snapback]1613353[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Whatsoever, i think this is a server-specific problem - if it realy is. Don't get me wrong, but we have only YOUR statement and everyone usually tells us the story in the view of their own. The Admins/owner pay for the servers, they do the rules. I don't know why this posts should belong to the NS forum in any way. Maybe you should try and post this at the forum that belongs to this specific server, if they have any. It is not a problem anyone could solve here. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh you are right about the admins paying for the servers therefore they make the rules. But there comes a point to wonder do they really want to run a server? Or do they just want a sense of dominance over someone else. I find that a lot of admins set up their rules so that they can air their own dirty laundry and displace their aggression over the internet. For example, on one counter strike source server, you can get banned for a simple TK of a teammate, whether its on purpose or accident. A logical person say "Ok just take off friendly fire and there will be no TKs so no bans either". But that is simply not the case. Now one can argue that friendly fire changes the way the game is played, which is true, but a simple ban after 1 or 2 accidental incidents? Give me a break.
Another example of airing dirty laundry is having no spawn camping rules, especially where those who are privileged are allowed to "bend" (which really means they blew enough smoke up the ###### of the admins that they turn a blind eye). Then the admins get excited with an audience to impress to hit that ban button with a pseudo-witty remark, only to set the player up for further humilation in a typical "unban forum" which more or less just acts as self-assuring that indeed because of the overly subjective interpretation of the existing rules, the ban is "justified" and should stand after several groups of players rationalize with the ruling.
The best thing you can do is find a community that does not confuse Maturity with Compliance (as many communities do).
I am the head admin of a gaming community (small but growing everyday), and we pride ourselves on not having those admins who definately look for trouble.
Here is an example of our rule set <a href="http://www.3-pg.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32" target="_blank">http://www.3-pg.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32</a>
Those rules are not unreasonable at all, and usually after a few warnings people stop behaving in a manner that is unpleasant for the other players on the server. We currently host the most popular dystopia server, as well as the most popular Eternal Silence server.
This is my interpretation of how things should be run. What I did instead of complaining about existent communities that you know are not going to change after reading this, I decided to create my own with some former NSA guys.
Now obviously everyone cannot create their own community, but you can do is find a community that closely represents the way you feel a community should be run. I could not find one myself, so I decided to create my own.
It seems however, that the communities nowadays are no longer high skill friendly, which is a shame. There are a lot of talented NS players that still simply because they love the game, but they are not allowed to express the skill they developed due to a more political restriction than anything else.
It also sucks that this community is going to lose those players to other games that are either already out, or coming out soon, its a damn shame to lose all that talent to have pub NS play dwindle down to a joke.
Oh well, no amount of complaining without action will change that.
The sense of entitlement that all you ###### get is ridiculous.
It all comes down to who has the power and who is in a position to influence the person in power.
If a server admin bans you, that's it. Why complain? Is the server admin going to magically reverse his decision? Most likely if it was a stupid decision in the first place, the admin is an arrogant moron and would come up with a million excuses not to.
Likewise, complaining about abusive server admins on the NS official forums isn't going to do jack. The devs can't force server admins to follow guidelines.
In the end, if an admin blatantly bans somebody who's doing ridiculously well and his playerbase remains unaffected except for that one person, then it's a win for the server, simply because the majority of his playerbase either a. tolerates or b. accepts his actions.
Despite the name "server", game servers aren't out to serve you. They are out so that people can play a (hopefully) fun game and when somebody is perceived to be disrupting the server, they get booted. It's that simple. If you can't stand that server, go somewhere else. If there's nowhere else to go, buy and host your own server. Don't have the cash? Get a job. Don't want to get a job? QUIT ######.
<!--quoteo(post=1613508:date=Mar 11 2007, 09:35 AM:name=TOmekki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TOmekki @ Mar 11 2007, 09:35 AM) [snapback]1613508[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> so if some players from a champions league level team were to go play in pub league teams and win every game 20-0 to their team it'd mean that soccer was unbalanced? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, but on the other hand those games aren't going to be very rewarding on either side now, are they?
Granted that you only improve by playing against players who are better than you, it helps if your opposition is at least somewhat close to your own level. Opponents who are far above OR far below you are just not much fun to fight against, because nothing you do really matters much. You're either going to win regardless of what you do, or lose regardless of what you do.
On the other hand, if those league-level players are nice, helpful players who stop after the game to give the pub-league players advice on how they can do better next time, then perhaps the game wasn't a waste after all. The trick is finding both --new players who are willing to learn, and --vet players who are willing to teach. One or the other isn't too tough, but both at the same time? Now <i>that's</i> a real challenge. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
You know what, I'm sick of the elitist bullish these forums get.
Yeah, I said it, "elitist". And I'm going to show you why you're elitist.
Commoddoom says the smartest thing in this thread:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->many of you compound this factor by stacking marines, res whoring and turning off voice. <b>pub ns is a mainly social event.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That’s the point here. Pub NS is a SOCIAL EVENT.
When I join the server I’m a regular at, there is at least (usually) one person who says “hi fatman!”. I will usually say “hi” back, and maybe even talk a little about how I failed my philosophy test.
I noticed someone mentioned Ted the Bug here. I like Ted the Bug. But let’s say he joins this server: no one says hi Ted. No one cares. The only response he’d get are “oh great, Ted has joined marines, as usual, and now we lose”.
Ted is a great player. I actually like to play with Ted. Why’s that? Because I’m one of the select few who have actually made Ted say something that could constitute a personality other than ZOMG COMPETETIVE. Yes, I called Ted the Bug something like Ted the Rug or Ted the Obnoxious Bug and he responded with SKINNYMAN. Unfortunately, this is why no one likes to play with Ted; the only personality trait he’s shown is that he’s a competitive player, and doesn’t like being called Ted the Rug. Now, I’m willing to bet that half of you reading this are saying that people don’t like him because he’s good. You’re wrong, wrong, wrong wrong wrong WRONG.
There are two players in this server that have a lot of respect and actually are competitive: ShY and Dest. Dest is sort-of a newcomer, (maybe) but ShY represents a perfect example. ShY shows *gasp* aspects of a *double-gasp* personality! *faints* As a matter of fact, ShY has actually used his mic in game, in a PUB! OH GOD MY BRAIN! SO MUCH INFO, CAN’T TAKE IT! I know it’s hard to believe, but ShY is one of the best players in the server, and people love to play with him. Why? Because he’s not an elitist ###### (note that Ted may not be either, but this has more of a kick to it).
Another wonderful thing Commofdoom says is that if you actually ask for a decent ban request, it’ll usually be permitted. I’m pretty sure that this is true:
Half of the ban appeals I see say one thing: “OMG I AM CAL EX-TERROR YOU ARE NUB UNBAN ME OR FLAYRA WILL EAT YOU”. Granted, they don’t say this so verbosely, but that overall message is there; a condescending attitude saying CAL loves you and that you should be un-banned. Naturally, no one likes this crap, and it will rarely, if ever, get you un-banned.
A good example of Commofdoom’s suggestion comes in at this same server I play at. The player meb was unfortunately come into question, and eventually banned.
Actually, his first post on the forums, three non-groupie-competetive-player responses afterwards said that “damn that was one hell of ban appeal. Someone get this guy back in game”. As a matter of fact, meb eventually DID get un-banned. Unfortunately though, someone decided he was hacking again, and his appeal lost its eloquent format, and turned into trash that insulted the community: “your pub's conversation is much like something you'd find in any ordinary household's garbage can, and I set my voice_scale cvar to 0 to avoid it”. After this, combined with him re-joining the server on a different account, thus constituting a “ban avoid” violation, he was re-banned, case was closed.
That being said, I can tell you about another incident involving a player named FrankTheTank. Frank was banned on suspicion of hacking, but was later found that he probably wasn’t hacking. The only issue is one of his aliases was “not meb”, which, as most of you know, is one of meb’s aliases. The owner of the server thus demanded an explanation of this use of meb’s names, and Frank refused to provide one, the closest thing being that it was an alias. As far as Frank was concerned, he had explained it, but to us, well, he said nothing about it.
The point was that he really didn’t say anything about it. The reason he used it was something that most of you probably can’t verbalize; the concept of smurfing.
As I said before, when I join a server, I only play as fatman. This is so people know who I am, and I can “socialize” with other players. This whole concept seems to be lost on most competitive players in the sense that they like to have no one know who they are and smurf the smurf out of Smurfette. The bottom line is that if you took to giving a damn about server’s like the one mentioned above policies, then you wouldn’t run into so many problems. Start playing a little more personally, and the pub community will like to play with you.
I look at this post alone, and there are at least 10 different people who seem to have a problem with the current Pub system with NS. 10 people in this thread alone. Look at more threads, look at more people, look outside Unknownworlds, well, you’ll find a lot of people who agree. Which brings me to my point: why on God’s green Earth DON’T you have a server?
And see, here’s the fun part, it’s because you’re elitist. Go re-read this thread, re-read all the posts. The people whom I’ve mentioned above all have one thing in common: they hate how pubs are run. And in each of these posts, you’ll probably find at least one similarity: they ask for change of these pubs.
Now please, tell me who died and made you king? Why should you have any jurisdiction over how Nub72223 runs his server? Honestly, where do you get off telling people what to do? You know why I’m calling you elitist? Because you ###### are. You come here ###### and whining and moaning about this and that and whoknowswhat, and you expect change because YOU’RE the whiner. That isn’t the case. You’re views are YOURS alone, not other people’s.
I could go on for hours here about why there’s such a problem with the “competitive” community, but I’m going to spare you all the boredom (conversely, I could go on to say why there are problems with the pub community). If you don’t want people calling you elitist, don’t be elitist. Telling others how to run their servers is elitist. Simple as that.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1613568:date=Mar 11 2007, 02:15 PM:name=F4tManMGS2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F4tManMGS2 @ Mar 11 2007, 02:15 PM) [snapback]1613568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Telling others how to run their servers is elitist. Simple as that. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Telling other people how to play the game on your server is elitist, too. The difference is that the victim in that situation can go elsewhere if he doesn't like it, while I pretty much have to stop going online at all if I want to avoid the diatribes you're referring to above.
The response to that might be "well, I have to stop going online if I want to avoid <insert undesirable adjective here> server admins." If you don't have money, and you're convinced all of these serverops are bad, then maybe you're right (and maybe you're not -- I don't know for sure).
This disgruntled horde needs to each find $7/month, and someone they can trust to manage their money, and go buy your own screamin' box and host the server for which there is clearly a healthy market. And don't take that as sarcasm. That's as good as gold. Everyone's happy that way (and quieter, which is good).
The crux is that I'm pretty sure plenty of disgruntled people have tried that, and failed terribly, and it's easy to argue the point that failed social dynamics was the driver there. I totally agree that pub NS, and the dynamic that drives its success, is hugely social.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
There aren't enough disgruntled players to run a successful server, so starting a server of disgruntled players would not be economically viable. There isn't even enough interest in the game anymore to populate empty servers as it stands right now. All of you saying "start your own server", SUYF.
<!--quoteo(post=1613554:date=Mar 11 2007, 11:26 AM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ Mar 11 2007, 11:26 AM) [snapback]1613554[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> No, but on the other hand those games aren't going to be very rewarding on either side now, are they?
Granted that you only improve by playing against players who are better than you, it helps if your opposition is at least somewhat close to your own level. Opponents who are far above OR far below you are just not much fun to fight against, because nothing you do really matters much. You're either going to win regardless of what you do, or lose regardless of what you do.
On the other hand, if those league-level players are nice, helpful players who stop after the game to give the pub-league players advice on how they can do better next time, then perhaps the game wasn't a waste after all. The trick is finding both --new players who are willing to learn, and --vet players who are willing to teach. One or the other isn't too tough, but both at the same time? Now <i>that's</i> a real challenge. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Losing is rarely fun, but its the best way to improve.
And I agree - it's hard to find new players who are willing to learn these days. Most of the time I see a request for guidance, its from a totally new player. The ones who have been playing for some time simply aren't interested in learning more. I used to offer my advice, but I stopped. Some people found it condescending that I'd dare suggest I was in a position to help them get better, while others would outright insult me for saying something that clashed with their view of how NS is played. Those who weren't offended rarely listened. So I stopped. The majority of veteran players are happy to help other players, <b>if they seek that help</b>. Most players don't; I get about ten times more hackusations than requests for help.
I'll be honest here, I'm not interested in socializing with the majority of players on a random server. There are servers that I play in often where I do chit-chat with the regulars, but if I want to play without making small talk, it is my prerogative. Seeing how the other players talk about meb and Ted the Bug in-game makes me wonder how they managed to stay civil as long as they did.
For those who actually support banning players who make a large impact on gameplay, what are you going to do when another good player comes along? Ban him too? Are you going to set a skill ceiling and ban everybody who is considered too good? How about the converse? Will you ban the 1-20 skulk that feeds, then goes fade and dies instantly? You're right, servers are private property, but might and right are two separate concepts.
You people say elitist like it's a bad thing. By the way, we don't hate the way "pubs" are run. We hate the way some specific servers are run.
If there are not enough "disgrunted players" to scrape together 2$/month (aka 12 players) to host a public 12 player server, tell me why on god's green earth should anyone care about what a 10 person minority says?
agreed fatman, 200%. The elitist attitudes showen by some players in the ns community is quite pathetic, it's always been my biggest gripe with the game. But sadly it's not an issue with the game itself, and something you cant really get rid off.
If all players from competitive teams are banned from your servers right now, the average skill level would decline dramatically. I suppose that is the intended goal by self-righteous admins - to ensure the 'gaming experience' without having players frustrated by their own lack of skill. Sure there are other good players, but still..
Also, banning good players won't solve ish. You can ban everyone that causes drama and you won't accomplish anything besides a ###### boring community that strives on nothing. You pubbers should be motivated to own competitive players rather than ###### whine about them on forums and get them banned for servers for pwning too much. Take away any competative spirit from the community and you're ######. Look at TG for example. They don't allow trolls and drama but they also didnt ban anyone who was better than the whimsical admin. That community is still going rather strong.
Once you get admins like mentioned by OP that start banning anything that causes some sort of e-discomfort you're doomed. NS may or may not be worse off now than it was exactly 1 year ago. Clearly NS hasn't been saved..... yet. I'm just hoping enough people can stop whining about 3.2 and actually L2P.
I would also like to point out that the competitive leagues worldwide (exception to ensl) are dead or dying. We're all going to be spending alot of time on your public server, HARDEN THE ###### UP.
And if you make a thread that questions balance, such as this one, you are automatically assumed to be "not good enough" or "you don't know how to skulk". Common assumptions.
As for the server stuff, it's true that the admin or so have the power at hand.
My friend was playing on aero with the name Jack Bauer. People around the server started chanting, hey the hacker is back, despite my friend's pathetic 7-20 score. He got banned because another player who had the same name had hacked hours earlier. Despite having different steamid's as the hacker, just because he happened to have the same name, he gets banned.
I bring that out because I want to say admins aren't perfect in their logic. Player has same name as previously banned hacker = ban. They ruled out the possibility of a player having the same name.
Eh, but I'm not so sure why the thread is going to server talk, but I guess that's what I had to say about this. I'm not someone who's pro-ban. If anything, even hackers, I'd put a timed ban on them. But do as you wish.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1613587:date=Mar 11 2007, 05:18 PM:name=F4tManMGS2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F4tManMGS2 @ Mar 11 2007, 05:18 PM) [snapback]1613587[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If there are not enough "disgrunted players" to scrape together 2$/month (aka 12 players) to host a public 12 player server, tell me why on god's green earth should anyone care about what a 10 person minority says? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess you'll never understand unless you become a part of that minority, isn't that right?
I'm not sying BAN ALL COMPETETIVE PLAYERS, I'm saying stop ###### preaching about this and that and whosits and whatsthats and deal with the fact that you'll be banned for being good. It's part of any game, and if you really cared, you'd either try to adhere to pub natures better, or post ban-appeals that say something other than WOW NUB SERVER ABNNED ME. Or, go buy your own damn server.
Bias against good players because they're good, that ain't good. But bias against good players because they don't add anything to a community, well, I certainly can't blame them.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
So basically, if you are like playing the game and are good at it, but if you don't want to participate in server banter, you should expect to be banned? And you're perfectly okay with this?
Really? Except we've all been banned for being too good, never for distancing ourselves from the social community within a pub. Many of us are active within these social spheres and aren't banned from those paticular severs. The problem occurs when these servers are full and we have to play elsewhere. Usually these servers are full of idiots I'd rather not speak to because usually they have no idea how to play NS. So when I play a game and don't talk on my microphone I get banned for 'hacking'.
<!--quoteo(post=1613581:date=Mar 11 2007, 03:59 PM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Mar 11 2007, 03:59 PM) [snapback]1613581[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> There aren't enough disgruntled players to run a successful server, so starting a server of disgruntled players would not be economically viable. There isn't even enough interest in the game anymore to populate empty servers as it stands right now. All of you saying "start your own server", SUYF. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Rocked.
I would put up another NS server, but apparently there is not enough of a demand for it anymore. I failed with NSAgames/NSArmslab and I think I'd rather put up another dystopia server or a garry's mod server.
Saraph if you have enough players interested, please contact me, perhaps we can work something out.
<!--quoteo(post=1613481:date=Mar 11 2007, 05:44 AM:name=Depot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Depot @ Mar 11 2007, 05:44 AM) [snapback]1613481[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> categorized according to their kill ratio. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
K/D won't work. On some good fight, i've seen Marines killing much more than aliens, but loosing too much territory and the game. Both happens . KD isn't a good solution for that.
<!--quoteo(post=1613617:date=Mar 11 2007, 07:06 PM:name=SEK2000Blackhawk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SEK2000Blackhawk @ Mar 11 2007, 07:06 PM) [snapback]1613617[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> K/D won't work. On some good fight, i've seen Marines killing much more than aliens, but loosing too much territory and the game. Both happens . KD isn't a good solution for that. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also K:D is a false evaluation, because not all units in the game are equal, and both sides have significantly different spawn times.
If the marines are entering the mid-game at a 1:1 kill ratio, I'd definately say the advantage is on the aliens side. I would bet at the 90/100 games when the K:D is like that the aliens will win.
<!--quoteo(post=1613608:date=Mar 11 2007, 05:34 PM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Mar 11 2007, 05:34 PM) [snapback]1613608[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> So basically, if you are like playing the game and are good at it, but if you don't want to participate in server banter, you should expect to be banned? And you're perfectly okay with this? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay with it? I can deal with it because I don't think playing video games online is about complete and utter silence never even letting anyone know I might have a shread of personality in me.
I'm saying that these people that cry NS IS DEAD NS IS DEAD NS IS DEAD because they can't play the way <b><i><u>they</u></i></b> want to really need to, as you put it, SUYF. If they have such a problem with the way other people play on other servers, don't play on these servers. And if it comes to there are no servers left for you to play on, host your own. Sitting on these forums whining and moaning about how the game isn't the way you like it won't solve ANYTHING considering that the people who read this forum typically don't own these pubs and frankly those who do own these pubs couldn't care less about your opinion. If you really wanted to do something about it, you'd go to servers that have banned you and actually post a someone humiliating ban appeal and hope for the best. Otherwise, you'll be outsourced from this "community" due to the fact that you fail to adhere to other people's preferences.
"Rocked" firewater?
"rocked"?
If there aren't enough people who share your beleifs as to create your own server, guess what? Your opinion is worth next to nil. What is "right" and what is "wrong" and what the purpose of this game is and what a server should be like aren't up to a minority of players who couldn't even host their own server. They're up to the masses who set the definitions. While you can sit and whine that your NS is dying, you need to udnerstand that it's just YOUR NS that's dying. Some people like the way it's headed.
Comments
Point is there will be a wide range of skill levels within each category.
As for bans related to hacks, that's a bit more of a murky issue. The real problem with bans over suspected hacks is not the 'suspected hacks', but the fact that NS is so poorly balanced that it lends itself to a great disparity in gameplay. This almost always happens when people are playing marine, simply because marines are overpowered in public play by nature. I've never heard of anyone getting banned for 'hacks' as an alien, while I don't doubt it has happened, it's never happened while I've played, and I've been around since the beginning. (Yeah there are some people who are 'super fades', but any time I ever hear that accusation there is always an alien nerf around the corner, yet the same never happens in response to marines who seem to have 'JFK bullets' in their LMGs)
Here's the problem...
Let's say you are a skilled player, and you go marines and are 40-1 on the scoreboard, with the next best person 15-5. Many people will claim 'hacks', but let's stop for a moment and ask if that is <b>REALLY </b> the issue here. If that same person had a score of 10-10, would people be claiming 'hacks'? Whether or not a person is actually hacking seems to be second to the real issue, and that's that a single person can often totally screw over game balance. Does it <i>really</i> matter if they are using hacks or not? Not really.
Ask yourself this... If a person admitted that they used hacks, but had a score of 2-20 and were at the bottom of the score sheet, would people believe it or care? No. The concern of users with respect to supposed 'hacks' is that they impact gameplay for others, and diminish their enjoyment. A person who uses 'hacks' to gain an unfair advantage will outperform others. However, is there any <b>REAL </b> difference between a person that uses 'hacks' to get a 40-1 score and a person who is just insanely good?
No. The fact that one person uses hacks and one doesn't makes <b>NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER</b>. The impact on the game is <b>EXACTLY </b> the same, a person who performs at that level will screw game balance, no matter how they attain that score. The real problem with NS is that it actually allows people to get such insanely good scores without hacks, and so whether a person is hacking or not doesn't matter, the damage to game balance is already done.
If people are getting banned because their high level of skills gets them accused of 'hacks' then they should be blaming developers for the poor state of balance, and not blaming server operators who want to maintain some semblance of balanced play on their server. I won't derail this thread by talking about what I have talked about <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=4313247685851148288&showtopic=100703" target="_blank">here</a>, but the bottom line is that experienced players can master marines far too easily, and that can totally screw over any semblance of game balance. Frankly, I really don't care if a person hacks or not, if they have more kills than the rest of their team combined, then something is wrong with the game that it would allow balance to become so skewed.
Don't blame the server operators for trying to maintain some form of game balance in the face of a poorly balanced game - they are just trying to keep the game fun for the other players.
Regards,
Savant
I love to run a listen server with friendly fire on from time to time. The only sad thing is usually I never have enough people. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
, but the bottom line is that experienced players can master marines far too easily, and that can totally screw over any semblance of game balance. Frankly, I really don't care if a person hacks or not, if they have more kills than the rest of their team combined, then something is wrong with the game that it would allow balance to become so skewed.
Don't blame the server operators for trying to maintain some form of game balance in the face of a poorly balanced game - they are just trying to keep the game fun for the other players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so if some players from a champions league level team were to go play in pub league teams and win every game 20-0 to their team it'd mean that soccer was unbalanced?
While i DO NOT agree with skilled players being banned, there does seem to be players that get "kicks" out of being accused of hacking, it's like it feeds their ego to join marines, destroy the server and get the admins/players ###### off.
Although not as common now, i have seen players over the years that where blatantly joining servers with this attitude, and they deserve all the perma bans they get IMO.
Now, you don't want to find yourself on an alien team in a large game where all the average marines stick together in masses and where your alien teammates rush these masses one by one in a straight line. Instead, you'd want to be on the marine team shooting these horrible skulks. This is especially the case if there are already some good people on the marine team. Not only do you have to contend with the bullets from the mass of average players, but you have the sharpshooters who will bring you down easily. There is no desire to be on a losing team. In 3.2, the aliens are nerfed further so there is even less desire to play on a pubber alien team.
What you're thinking is that competitive players should <b>work</b> to keep the game balanced. Why should anybody have do unfun work in a game that they're playing? It doesn't make sense unless you have some reason to make the sacrifice. Back in 3.1, I could pretty much carry my team with my fading, getting 100+/0 while the rest of the aliens would have scores of 9/4 or so, and I'd still lose - but at least it was fun to fight with that intensity and to actually make a difference which way the game was moving. Now in 3.2, there's fewer players and the fade has been nerfed for acceleration along with the other alien nerfs that I don't really like. If I were to play 3.2, I would prefer to play marines.
<b> Its not that we dont want to improve, its because you dont even give us a chance to.</b>
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On the contrary, playing against the good players is the best way to get better. How do you not have the chance to improve? I'd argue the opposite, in fact; a consistently good player is better practice than an inconsistently average player, because if you're testing out new tactics and strategies (And you should be. If you aren't, that's the reason you're not doing well), you want to be able to find something that works.
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Different people have different learning styles. Some can analyze what's going on and why they are failing while the majority can't really perceive what they're doing wrong unless someone tells them and shows them. Getting killed over and over again often just annoys the players.
Honestly, if you were a pubber who didn't know how to bunnyhop and who didn't know the strange way that bite really works, do you think you'd ever be a decent skulk? Would you go and realize the counterintuitive nature of the bite actually being a ranged weapon? Also, do you realize that it's hard to face off against a good marine as a vanilla skulk even if you've done everything right? Are you going to sit and hide around a corner waiting to ambush this marine only to have him check your hiding spot and kill you? Or are you going to rely on rushing the marine with 3 other skulks (without bunnyhopping) and hope that you're not going to die?
Learning to play well as a marine is one thing. However, the game is completely backwards when it comes to learning how to play well as an alien.
Whatsoever, i think this is a server-specific problem - if it realy is. Don't get me wrong, but we have only YOUR statement and everyone usually tells us the story in the view of their own.
The Admins/owner pay for the servers, they do the rules. I don't know why this posts should belong to the NS forum in any way. Maybe you should try and post this at the forum that belongs to this specific server, if they have any. It is not a problem anyone could solve here.
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Eh you are right about the admins paying for the servers therefore they make the rules. But there comes a point to wonder do they really want to run a server? Or do they just want a sense of dominance over someone else. I find that a lot of admins set up their rules so that they can air their own dirty laundry and displace their aggression over the internet. For example, on one counter strike source server, you can get banned for a simple TK of a teammate, whether its on purpose or accident. A logical person say "Ok just take off friendly fire and there will be no TKs so no bans either". But that is simply not the case. Now one can argue that friendly fire changes the way the game is played, which is true, but a simple ban after 1 or 2 accidental incidents? Give me a break.
Another example of airing dirty laundry is having no spawn camping rules, especially where those who are privileged are allowed to "bend" (which really means they blew enough smoke up the ###### of the admins that they turn a blind eye). Then the admins get excited with an audience to impress to hit that ban button with a pseudo-witty remark, only to set the player up for further humilation in a typical "unban forum" which more or less just acts as self-assuring that indeed because of the overly subjective interpretation of the existing rules, the ban is "justified" and should stand after several groups of players rationalize with the ruling.
The best thing you can do is find a community that does not confuse Maturity with Compliance (as many communities do).
I am the head admin of a gaming community (small but growing everyday), and we pride ourselves on not having those admins who definately look for trouble.
Here is an example of our rule set
<a href="http://www.3-pg.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32" target="_blank">http://www.3-pg.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32</a>
Those rules are not unreasonable at all, and usually after a few warnings people stop behaving in a manner that is unpleasant for the other players on the server. We currently host the most popular dystopia server, as well as the most popular Eternal Silence server.
This is my interpretation of how things should be run. What I did instead of complaining about existent communities that you know are not going to change after reading this, I decided to create my own with some former NSA guys.
Now obviously everyone cannot create their own community, but you can do is find a community that closely represents the way you feel a community should be run. I could not find one myself, so I decided to create my own.
It seems however, that the communities nowadays are no longer high skill friendly, which is a shame. There are a lot of talented NS players that still simply because they love the game, but they are not allowed to express the skill they developed due to a more political restriction than anything else.
It also sucks that this community is going to lose those players to other games that are either already out, or coming out soon, its a damn shame to lose all that talent to have pub NS play dwindle down to a joke.
Oh well, no amount of complaining without action will change that.
It all comes down to who has the power and who is in a position to influence the person in power.
If a server admin bans you, that's it. Why complain? Is the server admin going to magically reverse his decision? Most likely if it was a stupid decision in the first place, the admin is an arrogant moron and would come up with a million excuses not to.
Likewise, complaining about abusive server admins on the NS official forums isn't going to do jack. The devs can't force server admins to follow guidelines.
In the end, if an admin blatantly bans somebody who's doing ridiculously well and his playerbase remains unaffected except for that one person, then it's a win for the server, simply because the majority of his playerbase either a. tolerates or b. accepts his actions.
Despite the name "server", game servers aren't out to serve you. They are out so that people can play a (hopefully) fun game and when somebody is perceived to be disrupting the server, they get booted. It's that simple. If you can't stand that server, go somewhere else. If there's nowhere else to go, buy and host your own server. Don't have the cash? Get a job. Don't want to get a job? QUIT ######.
so if some players from a champions league level team were to go play in pub league teams and win every game 20-0 to their team it'd mean that soccer was unbalanced?
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No, but on the other hand those games aren't going to be very rewarding on either side now, are they?
Granted that you only improve by playing against players who are better than you, it helps if your opposition is at least somewhat close to your own level. Opponents who are far above OR far below you are just not much fun to fight against, because nothing you do really matters much. You're either going to win regardless of what you do, or lose regardless of what you do.
On the other hand, if those league-level players are nice, helpful players who stop after the game to give the pub-league players advice on how they can do better next time, then perhaps the game wasn't a waste after all. The trick is finding both --new players who are willing to learn, and --vet players who are willing to teach. One or the other isn't too tough, but both at the same time? Now <i>that's</i> a real challenge. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Yeah, I said it, "elitist". And I'm going to show you why you're elitist.
Commoddoom says the smartest thing in this thread:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->many of you compound this factor by stacking marines, res whoring and turning off voice. <b>pub ns is a mainly social event.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That’s the point here. Pub NS is a SOCIAL EVENT.
When I join the server I’m a regular at, there is at least (usually) one person who says “hi fatman!”. I will usually say “hi” back, and maybe even talk a little about how I failed my philosophy test.
I noticed someone mentioned Ted the Bug here. I like Ted the Bug. But let’s say he joins this server: no one says hi Ted. No one cares. The only response he’d get are “oh great, Ted has joined marines, as usual, and now we lose”.
Ted is a great player. I actually like to play with Ted. Why’s that? Because I’m one of the select few who have actually made Ted say something that could constitute a personality other than ZOMG COMPETETIVE. Yes, I called Ted the Bug something like Ted the Rug or Ted the Obnoxious Bug and he responded with SKINNYMAN. Unfortunately, this is why no one likes to play with Ted; the only personality trait he’s shown is that he’s a competitive player, and doesn’t like being called Ted the Rug. Now, I’m willing to bet that half of you reading this are saying that people don’t like him because he’s good. You’re wrong, wrong, wrong wrong wrong WRONG.
There are two players in this server that have a lot of respect and actually are competitive: ShY and Dest. Dest is sort-of a newcomer, (maybe) but ShY represents a perfect example. ShY shows *gasp* aspects of a *double-gasp* personality! *faints* As a matter of fact, ShY has actually used his mic in game, in a PUB! OH GOD MY BRAIN! SO MUCH INFO, CAN’T TAKE IT! I know it’s hard to believe, but ShY is one of the best players in the server, and people love to play with him. Why? Because he’s not an elitist ###### (note that Ted may not be either, but this has more of a kick to it).
Another wonderful thing Commofdoom says is that if you actually ask for a decent ban request, it’ll usually be permitted. I’m pretty sure that this is true:
Half of the ban appeals I see say one thing: “OMG I AM CAL EX-TERROR YOU ARE NUB UNBAN ME OR FLAYRA WILL EAT YOU”. Granted, they don’t say this so verbosely, but that overall message is there; a condescending attitude saying CAL loves you and that you should be un-banned. Naturally, no one likes this crap, and it will rarely, if ever, get you un-banned.
A good example of Commofdoom’s suggestion comes in at this same server I play at. The player meb was unfortunately come into question, and eventually banned.
Actually, his first post on the forums, three non-groupie-competetive-player responses afterwards said that “damn that was one hell of ban appeal. Someone get this guy back in game”. As a matter of fact, meb eventually DID get un-banned. Unfortunately though, someone decided he was hacking again, and his appeal lost its eloquent format, and turned into trash that insulted the community: “your pub's conversation is much like something you'd find in any ordinary household's garbage can, and I set my voice_scale cvar to 0 to avoid it”. After this, combined with him re-joining the server on a different account, thus constituting a “ban avoid” violation, he was re-banned, case was closed.
That being said, I can tell you about another incident involving a player named FrankTheTank. Frank was banned on suspicion of hacking, but was later found that he probably wasn’t hacking. The only issue is one of his aliases was “not meb”, which, as most of you know, is one of meb’s aliases. The owner of the server thus demanded an explanation of this use of meb’s names, and Frank refused to provide one, the closest thing being that it was an alias. As far as Frank was concerned, he had explained it, but to us, well, he said nothing about it.
The point was that he really didn’t say anything about it. The reason he used it was something that most of you probably can’t verbalize; the concept of smurfing.
As I said before, when I join a server, I only play as fatman. This is so people know who I am, and I can “socialize” with other players. This whole concept seems to be lost on most competitive players in the sense that they like to have no one know who they are and smurf the smurf out of Smurfette. The bottom line is that if you took to giving a damn about server’s like the one mentioned above policies, then you wouldn’t run into so many problems. Start playing a little more personally, and the pub community will like to play with you.
I look at this post alone, and there are at least 10 different people who seem to have a problem with the current Pub system with NS. 10 people in this thread alone. Look at more threads, look at more people, look outside Unknownworlds, well, you’ll find a lot of people who agree. Which brings me to my point: why on God’s green Earth DON’T you have a server?
And see, here’s the fun part, it’s because you’re elitist. Go re-read this thread, re-read all the posts. The people whom I’ve mentioned above all have one thing in common: they hate how pubs are run. And in each of these posts, you’ll probably find at least one similarity: they ask for change of these pubs.
Now please, tell me who died and made you king? Why should you have any jurisdiction over how Nub72223 runs his server? Honestly, where do you get off telling people what to do? You know why I’m calling you elitist? Because you ###### are. You come here ###### and whining and moaning about this and that and whoknowswhat, and you expect change because YOU’RE the whiner. That isn’t the case. You’re views are YOURS alone, not other people’s.
I could go on for hours here about why there’s such a problem with the “competitive” community, but I’m going to spare you all the boredom (conversely, I could go on to say why there are problems with the pub community). If you don’t want people calling you elitist, don’t be elitist. Telling others how to run their servers is elitist. Simple as that.
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Telling other people how to play the game on your server is elitist, too. The difference is that the victim in that situation can go elsewhere if he doesn't like it, while I pretty much have to stop going online at all if I want to avoid the diatribes you're referring to above.
The response to that might be "well, I have to stop going online if I want to avoid <insert undesirable adjective here> server admins." If you don't have money, and you're convinced all of these serverops are bad, then maybe you're right (and maybe you're not -- I don't know for sure).
This disgruntled horde needs to each find $7/month, and someone they can trust to manage their money, and go buy your own screamin' box and host the server for which there is clearly a healthy market. And don't take that as sarcasm. That's as good as gold. Everyone's happy that way (and quieter, which is good).
The crux is that I'm pretty sure plenty of disgruntled people have tried that, and failed terribly, and it's easy to argue the point that failed social dynamics was the driver there. I totally agree that pub NS, and the dynamic that drives its success, is hugely social.
No, but on the other hand those games aren't going to be very rewarding on either side now, are they?
Granted that you only improve by playing against players who are better than you, it helps if your opposition is at least somewhat close to your own level. Opponents who are far above OR far below you are just not much fun to fight against, because nothing you do really matters much. You're either going to win regardless of what you do, or lose regardless of what you do.
On the other hand, if those league-level players are nice, helpful players who stop after the game to give the pub-league players advice on how they can do better next time, then perhaps the game wasn't a waste after all. The trick is finding both --new players who are willing to learn, and --vet players who are willing to teach. One or the other isn't too tough, but both at the same time? Now <i>that's</i> a real challenge. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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Losing is rarely fun, but its the best way to improve.
And I agree - it's hard to find new players who are willing to learn these days. Most of the time I see a request for guidance, its from a totally new player. The ones who have been playing for some time simply aren't interested in learning more. I used to offer my advice, but I stopped. Some people found it condescending that I'd dare suggest I was in a position to help them get better, while others would outright insult me for saying something that clashed with their view of how NS is played. Those who weren't offended rarely listened. So I stopped. The majority of veteran players are happy to help other players, <b>if they seek that help</b>. Most players don't; I get about ten times more hackusations than requests for help.
I'll be honest here, I'm not interested in socializing with the majority of players on a random server. There are servers that I play in often where I do chit-chat with the regulars, but if I want to play without making small talk, it is my prerogative. Seeing how the other players talk about meb and Ted the Bug in-game makes me wonder how they managed to stay civil as long as they did.
For those who actually support banning players who make a large impact on gameplay, what are you going to do when another good player comes along? Ban him too? Are you going to set a skill ceiling and ban everybody who is considered too good? How about the converse? Will you ban the 1-20 skulk that feeds, then goes fade and dies instantly? You're right, servers are private property, but might and right are two separate concepts.
You people say elitist like it's a bad thing. By the way, we don't hate the way "pubs" are run. We hate the way some specific servers are run.
If all players from competitive teams are banned from your servers right now, the average skill level would decline dramatically. I suppose that is the intended goal by self-righteous admins - to ensure the 'gaming experience' without having players frustrated by their own lack of skill. Sure there are other good players, but still..
Also, banning good players won't solve ish. You can ban everyone that causes drama and you won't accomplish anything besides a ###### boring community that strives on nothing. You pubbers should be motivated to own competitive players rather than ###### whine about them on forums and get them banned for servers for pwning too much. Take away any competative spirit from the community and you're ######. Look at TG for example. They don't allow trolls and drama but they also didnt ban anyone who was better than the whimsical admin. That community is still going rather strong.
Once you get admins like mentioned by OP that start banning anything that causes some sort of e-discomfort you're doomed. NS may or may not be worse off now than it was exactly 1 year ago. Clearly NS hasn't been saved..... yet. I'm just hoping enough people can stop whining about 3.2 and actually L2P.
I would also like to point out that the competitive leagues worldwide (exception to ensl) are dead or dying. We're all going to be spending alot of time on your public server, HARDEN THE ###### UP.
flameon
Lets see where this thread goes.
As for the server stuff, it's true that the admin or so have the power at hand.
My friend was playing on aero with the name Jack Bauer. People around the server started chanting, hey the hacker is back, despite my friend's pathetic 7-20 score. He got banned because another player who had the same name had hacked hours earlier. Despite having different steamid's as the hacker, just because he happened to have the same name, he gets banned.
I bring that out because I want to say admins aren't perfect in their logic. Player has same name as previously banned hacker = ban. They ruled out the possibility of a player having the same name.
Eh, but I'm not so sure why the thread is going to server talk, but I guess that's what I had to say about this. I'm not someone who's pro-ban. If anything, even hackers, I'd put a timed ban on them. But do as you wish.
Good job.
If there are not enough "disgrunted players" to scrape together 2$/month (aka 12 players) to host a public 12 player server, tell me why on god's green earth should anyone care about what a 10 person minority says?
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I guess you'll never understand unless you become a part of that minority, isn't that right?
Bias against good players because they're good, that ain't good. But bias against good players because they don't add anything to a community, well, I certainly can't blame them.
There aren't enough disgruntled players to run a successful server, so starting a server of disgruntled players would not be economically viable. There isn't even enough interest in the game anymore to populate empty servers as it stands right now. All of you saying "start your own server", SUYF.
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Rocked.
I would put up another NS server, but apparently there is not enough of a demand for it anymore. I failed with NSAgames/NSArmslab and I think I'd rather put up another dystopia server or a garry's mod server.
Saraph if you have enough players interested, please contact me, perhaps we can work something out.
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K/D won't work. On some good fight, i've seen Marines killing much more than aliens, but loosing too much territory and the game. Both happens . KD isn't a good solution for that.
K/D won't work. On some good fight, i've seen Marines killing much more than aliens, but loosing too much territory and the game. Both happens . KD isn't a good solution for that.
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Also K:D is a false evaluation, because not all units in the game are equal, and both sides have significantly different spawn times.
If the marines are entering the mid-game at a 1:1 kill ratio, I'd definately say the advantage is on the aliens side. I would bet at the 90/100 games when the K:D is like that the aliens will win.
Straight K:D is a terrible way to do stats.
So basically, if you are like playing the game and are good at it, but if you don't want to participate in server banter, you should expect to be banned? And you're perfectly okay with this?
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Okay with it? I can deal with it because I don't think playing video games online is about complete and utter silence never even letting anyone know I might have a shread of personality in me.
I'm saying that these people that cry NS IS DEAD NS IS DEAD NS IS DEAD because they can't play the way <b><i><u>they</u></i></b> want to really need to, as you put it, SUYF. If they have such a problem with the way other people play on other servers, don't play on these servers. And if it comes to there are no servers left for you to play on, host your own. Sitting on these forums whining and moaning about how the game isn't the way you like it won't solve ANYTHING considering that the people who read this forum typically don't own these pubs and frankly those who do own these pubs couldn't care less about your opinion. If you really wanted to do something about it, you'd go to servers that have banned you and actually post a someone humiliating ban appeal and hope for the best. Otherwise, you'll be outsourced from this "community" due to the fact that you fail to adhere to other people's preferences.
"Rocked" firewater?
"rocked"?
If there aren't enough people who share your beleifs as to create your own server, guess what? Your opinion is worth next to nil. What is "right" and what is "wrong" and what the purpose of this game is and what a server should be like aren't up to a minority of players who couldn't even host their own server. They're up to the masses who set the definitions. While you can sit and whine that your NS is dying, you need to udnerstand that it's just YOUR NS that's dying. Some people like the way it's headed.