computer problems

douchebagatron

<div class="IPBDescription">possible bad video card</div>well ive had problems with my computer, usually what happens is it runs mostly fine until i start up a game, then after a bit it shuts off. but its not a normal shut off, sometimes i just lose video, sometimes the computer basically turns off, but the tower keeps running and i have to switch it off manually. when i lose video, the screen doesnt just go black, but the monitor shuts as if the computer had been turned off.

it sounds to me that my video card (9800pro 256mb) is crapping out on me. its been giving me this trouble for a while now, it started when i installed vista and replaced my dvd drive, but i didnt even get near the vid card or anything. i figured it might have been vista messing up on me, but it still happens with xp reinstalled.

is there a diagnostic that i could run that would check to see if my video card is fine or anything like that?

Thansal

Sounds 100% like Heat problems. I don't remember the programs that will monitor that for you atm, however I would suggest cleanign out your case, making sure your fans are working, that you have a clear pathway for air, that your comp is away from walls, etc etc.

some one will come along and tell you exactly what programs to use <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

douchebagatron

i thought about that, i leave enough room around my case, and all the fans seem to be blowing out air that seems about a decent temperature. but i spose a program to see what my heat is would be a good step.

Tyrain

Start up a game till it shuts down. Reboot and check bios. (it's delete for most bios) and check the heat in there.

im_lost

I know of someone that was trying out Vista on some computer, and afterward they switched back to XP, and some stuff wasn't working properly (I don't remember what). They thought maybe some stuff was written to the hard drive that wasn't removed well enough with a quick format, so they were going to try a full format of the hard drive to fix it. I'll have to ask them how that went (since that was about a week ago).

SkinnY

Could you possibly have hit your vid-cards power supply when you switched dvd-drive? Just a suggestion... not that i would ever do such thing >_>

Warrior

Download ATi Tool to check your temps. Not sure if it will work on vista, but will help determine your problem. Your fan may be failing and leading to high temps.

douchebagatron

well i looked it up on the ati site, and it said that all all the X series (like X800 and whatnot) have the chip that detects the heat, but i couldnt find anything saying that my 9800 pro did. i downloaded the catalyst control center and cant seem to find any way to find out my heat on it.

i tried running eternal silence with my case open to see if it causes problems, and it crashed a lot but i think that might be just because its the game, not heat. when it crashed the computer fully crashed and restarted, instead of just losing video and freezing. just finished downloaded dystopia and will test with that, and css will be finished downloading soon as well.

Warrior

<a href="http://www.techpowerup.com/atitool/" target="_blank">http://www.techpowerup.com/atitool/</a>

Good program, I use it to control my fan on my 1900xtx.

Redford

A significatly less technical way of testing your card heat is waiting until it crashes then trying to start the computer up again right away. If it was a heat issue your computer won't have any of it. Another way is to physically put your finger on the chip and/or heatsink if it is possible with your box.

With my old system, my vidcard was overheating due to the headsink being in error. There was no fan to check because that paticular vidcard didn't have an attached fan. It turned out the reason was due to the fact that the thermal paste had degraded to the point where the heatsink had become detatched from the chip, causing it to overheat. I could wiggle it around, like a loose tooth. The hard part is it took an annoying amount of time to actually convince the vendor that I actually needed a new card.

And yes, the new vidcard caused my system to work perfectly.

Lt_Patch

<!--quoteo(post=1614276:date=Mar 14 2007, 05:05 PM:name=6john)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(6john @ Mar 14 2007, 05:05 PM) [snapback]1614276[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
i thought about that, i leave enough room around my case, and all the fans seem to be blowing out air that seems about a decent temperature. but i spose a program to see what my heat is would be a good step.
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Oh, please don't tell me that all your fans are pointing outwards...
Equal flow in, and out will help greatly with this problem. Think about your airflow. Build quality, etc. No amount of cooling in the world will help if your airflow is blocked by shoddy cabling. If you've got an X-series card, then it will downclock itself when it hits a certain temperature. It's a safety feature built into every new card. More than likely to be something else getting too hot.

Check airflow, and for god sake, sort out your fan configuration. Equal number of fans blowing in, compared to blowing out.

Thansal

and (if I remember correctly) you want air flowing through the case, so generaly exaust in the rear, intake in the front. Thus fresh air blows over the components, taking away the heat with it.

I have no clue what to do with side mounted fans <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

Oh, and if you realy wana test it out you can always just take a box fan and point it at your open case, and crank the AC.

If this fixes your problem then it is deffinatly heat <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

Surge

Newer video cards tend to overheat, I believe. If you have the side off your case, put it back on; the cases are made to have good airflow, so having it open doesn't help much. Try looking at the heatsinks on your stuff, and clean the dust out of their fans. I just wish I did all that before my motherboard and video card fried... *mumble mumble* I took them out, and they smelled like smoke, no joke.

Also, be careful if you're cleaning out the heatsink on your video card after turning the PC off. It can be pretty blazing hot.

Lt_Patch

Alternatively, just buy a can of compressed air, and spray away. God's gift to the computer geek, that stuff is.

And Surge, I've smelled a PC after 70% of the components had fried. Callouts to stupid companies ftl.

TychoCelchuuu

Blow the dust away; this actually fixed my overheating problem. I don't know why it worked one day and then started overheating the next, but clearing away the dust dropped temperatures back down to where they ought to be.

douchebagatron

no i dont have all my fans pointing out, i was referring to the 2 fans in the back that are. im pretty sure its not the video cards heat because i installed that ati tool and the temp was always at a steady 55ish C whether im just at my desktop or playing a game. i havent really had a huge problem since a cleaned a lot of dust out of one of the vents in the side that led to my processor, so i think thats what it probably was.

BlackMage

<!--quoteo(post=1614483:date=Mar 14 2007, 10:19 PM:name=Redford)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Redford @ Mar 14 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]1614483[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Another way is to physically put your finger on the chip and/or heatsink if it is possible with your box.
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very, very, <b>very</b> bad idea. you could easily cause a near-infinite amount of problems...

Warrior

Run the artifact scanner using ati tool for awhile. If your system shuts down, then I think your video card is going out. The artifact scanner puts a huge load on my video card and puts my temps higher then a game like oblivion would.

Edit: I believe you wont cause any problems by touching the chip. Aside from getting burned because you touched something that was 75C. Its in plastic so static electricity is not a problem. People will touch motherboard chipsets. I doubt a GPU is a exception. Just dont press hard and crush it.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1614642:date=Mar 15 2007, 12:00 PM:name=Black_Mage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black_Mage @ Mar 15 2007, 12:00 PM) [snapback]1614642[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
very, very, <b>very</b> bad idea. you could easily cause a near-infinite amount of problems...
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Starting with giving your self a nast burn <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

BlackMage

that and you getting a nice little shock.
also, nobody's been able to touch an active cpu since the P2 line got dropped. everything above a p3 has a decently large HSF and the cpu is most often covered in thermal paste. a p4 running with no heatsink will trip its heat cutoff within seconds of being turned on. a p4 with the cutoff removed and no heatsink will actually burn itself out and present a fire hazard.
now we present mage's list of common things that go wrong when people attempt to use a biological temp probe on electronics:
1) burns. if you have a heatsink on something, assume the thing being cooled by the heatsink is hot. by proxy, assume the heatsink is hot.
2) shocks. see all those little silver/gold things. if you touch two of them you'll have a nice little surprise. also, you have just shorted something, make sure it's not on fire.
3) residue. your fingers have oil, it reduces the lifespan of objects with a high operating temperature (not noticeable on heatsinks so much as headlights, but it's best to keep contact to a minimum). also, foreign objects + electronics = fun (especially sugars)
4) fans. a high speed fan could nick your finger and ... not do all that much. but you could easily throw it off center or out of alignment.
5) gremlins. if you use windows, you signed a contract allowing gremlins to live in your computer. their bites can be rather painful.

Redford

I am at fault for assuming the user wouldn't be a ###### and say "LOL I'M GOING TO PRY THE PROTECTIVE COVER OFF THE CHIP AND TOUCH IT DIRECTLY!!!!11"

BlackMage

without supplying sufficient warning, yes you are.

douchebagatron

well i thought the problem had gone away, but from the lan party last night where my computer would restarted every 2 minutes or so, i found it the problem is still there. i also found out that i am not just losing video as i thought. if i leave the computer for about a minute or so after losing video the computer will actually restart, so i dont think its the video card.

i have no idea what it could possibly be. the temp on my video card seems within a decent amount always, i dont know how to check my processor (amd athlon 64 X2 3800) so if someone could help me out with that it would be great. also if theres any hints on checking temps of other things in the computer (ram or something) that would be great.

i just installed the dual core hotfix, so i will see if that does anything for me. i dont think it will because i didnt have this problem before vista and i didnt have the hotfix.

Faskalia

<!--quoteo(post=1614666:date=Mar 15 2007, 07:37 PM:name=Redford)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Redford @ Mar 15 2007, 07:37 PM) [snapback]1614666[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I am at fault for assuming the user wouldn't be a ###### and say "LOL I'M GOING TO PRY THE PROTECTIVE COVER OFF THE CHIP AND TOUCH IT DIRECTLY!!!!11"
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Well...

In 10 years, we are going to have "Don't lick" stickers on every microchip <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />

Spooge

Is this a machine that you built or is it a "big box" machine? Have you made any physical upgrades to it lately (RAM, drives, mobo, cpu, etc).

If you aren't having a heat problem, then I'd start looking at 1) your memory and 2) your power supply.

Find out what brand of memory you're using and see if they have a test program on their site. If that checks out (and even if it doesn't) I'd take a look at the brand and capability of the PSU.

douchebagatron

its a computer i built myself. the only upgrade ive made in the past year was when i put in a new dvd burner when i updated to vista. but when i did that i didnt even get near anything else in the computer. i ran a memory checker that my friend used to find errors in his ram, and he had the same ram as me, the other night and it didnt show up any errors.

i dont think its my PSU because the computer keeps on running when theres a crash, it doesnt just click off, but i dont know much about how a PSU would act if it had problems. but now that i think about it i spose its possible that my PSU doesnt have enough wattage to support this new dvd burner. maybe. do my problems sound like they could be caused my not having enough wattage?

Warrior

<!--quoteo(post=1615655:date=Mar 19 2007, 01:43 PM:name=6john)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(6john @ Mar 19 2007, 01:43 PM) [snapback]1615655[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
its a computer i built myself. the only upgrade ive made in the past year was when i put in a new dvd burner when i updated to vista. but when i did that i didnt even get near anything else in the computer. i ran a memory checker that my friend used to find errors in his ram, and he had the same ram as me, the other night and it didnt show up any errors.

i dont think its my PSU because the computer keeps on running when theres a crash, it doesnt just click off, but i dont know much about how a PSU would act if it had problems. but now that i think about it i spose its possible that my PSU doesnt have enough wattage to support this new dvd burner. maybe. do my problems sound like they could be caused my not having enough wattage?
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PSU can be the #1 reason for crashes. It might not be suppling enough volts to keep things running when a load is applied. Its a possibility that your PSU is going out. Download speed fan to monitor your volts. If they aren't in spec then its a good chance your PSU is causing issues.

douchebagatron

what do you mean by in spec?

Xyth

<!--quoteo(post=1615677:date=Mar 19 2007, 05:45 PM:name=6john)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(6john @ Mar 19 2007, 05:45 PM) [snapback]1615677[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
what do you mean by in spec?
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He means that all the voltage stays level at what it's supposed to be. (3v line is 3volts, etc).

You could just try unplugging the power from your DVD burner and seeing if you get the same issues.

douchebagatron

i checked the voltage on everything and it all stayed level. i also checked the temps with that speedfan program and none of the temps got over 40 except the processor which never got above 43. the voltages pretty much stayed how they should.


although it does seem possible that there was a sudden voltage drop somewhere that caused the crash and was quick enough to not get recorded in the log file, but is that likely?