Speechless...
John Stewart:
Five fifth grade students were arrested and now face criminal charges after four of them decided to have sex in front of the class.
The fifth student, probably the one who always gets picked last in gym class, was used as a lookout for teachers.
The four students decided to entertain the other kids when they were left unsupervised.
Imagine, if you will, young Billy comes home from school… his mom maybe gives him some milk and cookie…
Then she asks… “How was school today? Anything interesting happen?”
I think I'm going to home school my kids...
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/school.sex.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/school.se...=rss_topstories</a>
O_o
Five fifth grade students were arrested and now face criminal charges after four of them decided to have sex in front of the class.
The fifth student, probably the one who always gets picked last in gym class, was used as a lookout for teachers.
The four students decided to entertain the other kids when they were left unsupervised.
Imagine, if you will, young Billy comes home from school… his mom maybe gives him some milk and cookie…
Then she asks… “How was school today? Anything interesting happen?”
I think I'm going to home school my kids...
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/school.sex.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/school.se...=rss_topstories</a>
O_o
Comments
>_>
<_<
Youtubeoritdidnthappen. *cough*
Fifth graders are getting more action than I am.
so those 10 or so other students just quietly watched? that's really weird...
wow, early bloomers... i was still in my 'ew... girls' phase through middle school. I got to high school and suddenly realized that some girl had a crush on me since sixth grade and i completely blew her off <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Damn, she's probably really hot now...
Gentlemen, we're ignoring the bigger issue here. Something is terribly amiss.
Fifth graders are getting more action than I am.
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haha priceless. I concur.
I need to get wasted more and have meaningless drunk sex. Or go back in time and .. oh wait I was at an all boys elementary school. Grade 9 and WHAM omg girls!
ew.
I think the solution is to crack down on sex in movies and replace it with violence and bad language, possibly some drug use. I mean seriously what's a 10 year old going to be able to do with those puny little fists? And if they swear with those pipsqueak voices, it's just funny. And the closest they can get to drugs is Children's Strength Advil.
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My fiance was doing Acid in 5th grade. >_>
My fiance was doing Acid in 5th grade. >_>
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Now that's ###### up. Over here drug use (be it alcohol, tobacco, weed or the harder stuff) begins at 13-14 and is mostly found in private schools.
What's going on is that we've become too awesome. So we're devolving.
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We're devolving because stupid people have more children than smart people, so purely by the process of natural selection, smart people will slowly become extinct.
I for one welcome our moron overlords.
We're devolving because stupid people have more children than smart people, so purely by the process of natural selection, smart people will slowly become extinct.
I for one welcome our moron overlords.
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I highly recommend the movie "Idiocracy". Exaxtly whats happening right now. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Now that's ###### up. Over here drug use (be it alcohol, tobacco, weed or the harder stuff) begins at 13-14 and is mostly found in private schools.
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It was pretty ###### up, but she lived in a big city in the south west, and with a single parent, and took everything the parent had to keep them with a roof over their heads. Really bad life she had.
I barely knew what sex was at that age...
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I had the internet in 3rd grade.
If the kids wanna bang, let 'em. I just think that there's a time and a place for everything though.
I had the internet in 3rd grade.
If the kids wanna bang, let 'em. I just think that there's a time and a place for everything though.
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That's like saying if kids want to race motorcycles or invest all their money in the stock market, let them. People are as close to clinically retarded as you can get withotu actually being so when they're children, and that means we have to keep them from doing ridiculous stuff. I admit there's not too much that can happen when you're so young that you can't even impregnate the other person, but still, it's the same principle. They're nowhere near old enough to be able to make decisions about what they should eat for dinner, let alone who to screw.
Alot of people I've seen basically respond, "hey, if they want to bang eachother in front of their classmates why stop them?" and it pisses me off immensely that the best argument I can make to say "hey, that's just frigging wrong!" can be countered with "so what, give them condom's!"
Is it a fault in rational sociaty that we can't figure out a good reason why this is a horrible terrible thing that should not happen? Or is it the fault of traditional sociaty to have been banning it from taking place for thousands and thousands of years at least?
If this is actually fine then what about other sexual conventions? Beastialty, I mean does it really hurt anyone? Maby call it animal abuse, but what do you call killing millions and millions of animals for food then? Necrophilia, the dead can't feel anything anyways. Rape, really, what is it but a few hours of the day wasted. Just charge an hourly rate per rape or something. I mean why not? Pedophilia applies too. Sure, you can argue that there are adverse psychological effects, but can you prove it? Is it really worse for a child then perhaps a loved pet dying or parents breaking up? We don't seem to protect our children life and limb from those things... What if it's done in a loving way? Is it even really abuse then?
It scares me to death that I can ask these questions but I can't rationally answer them in the way that just seems to be so obvious. My sense of morality seems to tell me that these are terrible acts against humanity vaugly on par with murder, but I can't build a rational basis for that.
Sorry to get really philosophical... It just really bugged me...
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Maybe you can't build a rational basis for it because sex/f*ing/lovemaking is a natural act necessary for the survival of the species and thus is ingrained in our instincts, and murder is not?
<b>If all parties were consenting, age notwithstanding</b>, then the moral wrongs committed in this case are:
1) Too young for sex
2) Indecently eposing themselves in front of others
3) Committing this public indecency at a school
When I was 6, I made out with a girl in my kindergarten class because that's what boys and girls did "in the movies". I got in trouble but all it amounted to was a slap on the wrist and a visit to the principal. Unless I'm missing something, what happened in that classroom wasn't rape, which thereby removes it from the same class of unforgivable crime as murder. It's just naive (and likely stupid, due to slacker/idiot parents) kids with no self control, doing something they shouldn't. Happens at schools around the world, every day, just usually to a lesser extent.
Does that help?
It scares me just the same. Not for the same reasons, but instead that you really can say something so ignorant as an "hourly rate per rape" or "Rape, really, what is it but a few hours of the day wasted." There <b>is</b> evidence (and loads, loads, LOADS of it) of psychological effects being incredibly harmful - <b>yes,</b> you can prove it.
Pedophilia/Rape? Sybil. And how you can even try to relate the shock and insane psychological effects caused by such an action to a loved pet dying or the parents being divorced - ...<i>how?</i> Those things can be understood, but if you're raped as a child, you grow up in the world fearing every man/woman/person around you. A child does not simply grow up thinking "it was okay" if it was a "loving" way of doing it, eventually they learn, and they don't remember it fondly - nore would they as a young child, because I doubt they loved it even then. Ask around and you'll eventually (sadly) find a woman who's been through it, and you can ask them what the effects of rape are.
Necrophilia? There is no consent given for this act. What, a dead person can't give consent? Neither can a 12 year old. Just because someone you've been stalking your entire life drops dead doesn't give you the right to run up to their body, scream "DIBS!!!" then take it home to have your way for it. The principle of consent still applies, and because the dead cannot give consent, then necrophilia is out of the question.
Sorry (I really am, because I'm harsh) if I come off hostile here, but I hope its understandable. You need to look at these things and realize that "its just friggen wrong!" comes with boat loads of evidence behind it.
It scares me just the same. Not for the same reasons, but instead that you really can say something so ignorant as an "hourly rate per rape" or "Rape, really, what is it but a few hours of the day wasted." There <b>is</b> evidence (and loads, loads, LOADS of it) of psychological effects being incredibly harmful - <b>yes,</b> you can prove it.
Pedophilia/Rape? Sybil. And how you can even try to relate the shock and insane psychological effects caused by such an action to a loved pet dying or the parents being divorced - ...<i>how?</i> Those things can be understood, but if you're raped as a child, you grow up in the world fearing every man/woman/person around you. A child does not simply grow up thinking "it was okay" if it was a "loving" way of doing it, eventually they learn, and they don't remember it fondly - nore would they as a young child, because I doubt they loved it even then. Ask around and you'll eventually (sadly) find a woman who's been through it, and you can ask them what the effects of rape are.
Necrophilia? There is no consent given for this act. What, a dead person can't give consent? Neither can a 12 year old. Just because someone you've been stalking your entire life drops dead doesn't give you the right to run up to their body, scream "DIBS!!!" then take it home to have your way for it. The principle of consent still applies, and because the dead cannot give consent, then necrophilia is out of the question.
Sorry (I really am, because I'm harsh) if I come off hostile here, but I hope its understandable. You need to look at these things and realize that "its just friggen wrong!" comes with boat loads of evidence behind it.
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Okay, Im about to stray into touchy territory here, but hear me out.
Pyschological affects are created by <i>you</i>, yourself. The act of sex, or any physical act for that matter, does not automatically create some kind of pyschological complex, regardless of situation. Once you understand this, you begin to see that the after effects of any kind of abuse is decided <i>by you</i>. Which means that, on a level, you are only scarred because your pyschi tells you that you <i>should</i> be. Now, don't take this to mean that all sexual abuse victims want to have terrible psychological problems, they obviously don't; who would? As a current culture certain acts are considered wrong, and it is drilled into our heads our entire lives as that, so we don't really have much of a choice to consider it otherwise. Likewise, we are told what our reactions to certain situations should be, and we act that way because we are expected to. Where's the proof for this? Look into our past, culture didn't always see things the same way. Girls were married at much <i>younger</i> ages, and were expected to do the things anybody would. Did they form mysterious pyschological issues? No... because society told them it was fine, so it <i>was</i> fine. Look at the animal kingdom, when alpha-male leadership of a troope changes, the new male will attempt to impregnate all the females, against most of their wills. However they are no more adverse to it then they would be to any kind of physical assault, because that is all it is to them.
Now don't think Im saying sexual abuse of any kind is ok, because according to current society, most isn't. However, understand that these rights are only determined by society currently, and are subject to change over time. So in closing, pyschological effects of anything are subjective at best.
Of course, that isn't the issue at hand, and besides it being irresponsible of the parents and teachers to let this happen in front of a class, I really can't see anything all that wrong with it from a moral stand point.
My system of morality basically boils down to "Its okay, as long as no one gets hurt or is forced to do something against their will", which is really two sides of the same coin.
My simplistic (but very well working) view makes me look at the world differently. For example, in the Armen Miewes (sp?) case, I always argue with my friends that no crime was committed since the murder was consensual. I mean, the guy obviously has some deep issues, but he isn't a criminal.
Its debatable whether anyone got hurt here, since it may have had some psychological effects on the other kids in the class, but if they aren't traumatised, then I don't think anything morally wrong happened.
And that is all I'm going to say.
And Xyth, I'm sure if you go back to the times when people were married away at a young age, <i>if they were given a choice,</i> and shown what an 'alternate lifestyle' would be like without the lack of choice, and gotten to EXPERIENCE IT, they'd choose the freedom of choice. There is no question that the human psyche is a terribly confusing thing, as for any animal's psyche, and everything deemed 'right' and 'wrong' is subjective to whatever lifestyle people live under, but having the <u>freedom of choice</u> outweighs any other option you're given, no matter what society has drilled into your skull, and no matter what you strongly believe, because with the option of freedom, all other paths are opened.
Once a being realizes the option of freedom, they will be hurt to have it stripped away, reguardless of whatever society they live in.
And Xyth, I'm sure if you go back to the times when people were married away at a young age, <i>if they were given a choice,</i> and shown what an 'alternate lifestyle' would be like without the lack of choice, and gotten to EXPERIENCE IT, they'd choose the freedom of choice. There is no question that the human psyche is a terribly confusing thing, as for any animal's psyche, and everything deemed 'right' and 'wrong' is subjective to whatever lifestyle people live under, but having the <u>freedom of choice</u> outweighs any other option you're given, no matter what society has drilled into your skull, and no matter what you strongly believe, because with the option of freedom, all other paths are opened.
Once a being realizes the option of freedom, they will be hurt to have it stripped away, reguardless of whatever society they live in.
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Wait... what? Im pretty sure freedom of choice has nothing to do with what I said. Freedom of choice between what?
edit: I know this is all hard to read and comprehend and everything, I'm just rambling.
edit2: I think the bottom line is we both agree that psychological damage is subjective to the person's psyche and how its conditioned through their life. I'm not sure what your point was overall in terms of relation to the topic at hand though.
Between being forced, married away, etc. It has plenty to do with what you said, because your entire argument on how psyche damage was subjective hinged on the fact that some societies enforce and strongly believe in forcing marriage (long ago) or rape (the animals), etc, and it causes no 'psychological effects.' I was only saying that if the person DID Have that experience of freedom of choice, then no matter what society they were in, then it would cause a psychological damaging.
edit: I know this is all hard to read and comprehend and everything, I'm just rambling.
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I sort of understand what you mean now. However, you are assuming that the people don't want to do these things, in this case be married off and the subsequent "underage" sex. Why would they consider our current arrangement any better then what they grew their life up under? Think of it this way, long lasting sexual relations in our culture are typical to the 20-30 year group, and to me and you these is perfectly acceptable. Imagine if you looked into the future and saw that 200 years from now, people don't consider sex to be "right" until you are 60-70(life expectancy is longer, so people take their time or something like that). To them, our current arrangement is dispicable, but even though we would be able to see what they think is better, ours still seems acceptable to us. You are still stuck seeing your current cultural upbringing as the only correct one.