Flamethrower
KainTSA
Join Date: 2005-05-30 Member: 52831Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2005-05-30 Member: 52831Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">In place of shotguns?</div>As has been said before, the most obvious way to remove DI would be a flamethrower. However, such a weapon would need more uses than simply infestation. As it stands now, shotties are the best way to rush a structure, especialy a hive.
In NS2 I would say keep shotties (of course) but reduce their damage to structures. Make the flamethrower deal serious damage to structures but very limited to Khara lifeforms. This would make a flamethrower a support unit that needs backup to go around and torch alien res nodes/chambers, promoting teamwork. You could also have the flamethrower temporarily set a structure ablaze so it doesn't require constant attention to get things down.
In NS2 I would say keep shotties (of course) but reduce their damage to structures. Make the flamethrower deal serious damage to structures but very limited to Khara lifeforms. This would make a flamethrower a support unit that needs backup to go around and torch alien res nodes/chambers, promoting teamwork. You could also have the flamethrower temporarily set a structure ablaze so it doesn't require constant attention to get things down.
Comments
Maybe they can withstand much higher temperatures than us <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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Asbestos skulk ftw...
perhaps the flamethrower would be 1/2 shot gun 1/2 GL ?
The inner ring deals something like 20 damage. A cone of fire about the size of the LMG.
The second ring deals maybe 7 damage. A cone of fire about four times the size of the first.
The sprite-shot has to hit the enemy to do the damage. Structures get 'lit on fire', so that once they're on fire (from even a single hit, or maybe a few), as soon as they stop being hit, they take the same damage for another 5 seconds (1 hit per second). So waving the Flamer over a structure for two seconds would deal it 2* (3*20 + 4* 7) = 172 damage, also assuming you hit with all the outside ones.
The middle stream does the most damage, so moving skulks would have something of a chance. Structures would gain the 'on fire' effect, where, after the 172 damage, if the flamer moved away, it would burn for another 3-5 seconds, so adding either 596 or 860 over a few seconds. Some solid damage, and it would have all those effects mentioned before.
Make the guy really weighed down; the slowest marine in the game. He would have to die in a fireball too, of course. Have the kit cost the beloved 15, or even 20.
*THIS IS IMPORTANT, its a very different idea on the flamer
The clip would run out quickly, but when you stop firing (with clip remaining), the clip goes back up just a tad. Maybe like 15% (if you used 15% of more). This would encourage players to take bursts to 'conserve ammo'.
We'd be talking a full clip giving you maybe 4-5 seconds of continuous fire, but if you milked it, you could get 6-8. The clip wouldnt take long to switch, but you'd only be able to carry the one in the chamber and four backup.
The flamer would NOT be affected by damage ups, and would require first a 'Flame Upgrade' on the armory (15 res, unlocks ability to upgrade incendiary grenades [15 res as well, becomes one gren one incend], and Flame Upgrade + AA = flamer). So you wouldnt see flamers until at least the 4 min mark on a rush, and more like usually 6-10 mins, if at all.
Pros:
-great for multiple structures
-would require skill to do enough initial damage so that the burning time will finish it off
-skulks wouldnt be totally toast (bam) because the inner 'pellets' are what do the most damage by a lot
-the area-of-effect damage, derived from basically a near-continuous flow of Shotgun blasts which move slowly, would do appropriate damage when the aliens just miss the bulk of the flame (the middle stream)
-Would require cover all the time
-fades wouldnt care too much about em (they'd be the real anti-flamer), skulks would have to just watch the middle of the flame (leak ftw), lerks wouldn't like the area damage for when they fly around, onos would take some decent damage but nothing more than LMG or less, and the gorge would be toast.
-healspray 'smothers' a structure on fire
-done with that build order, it would offer a lot more tech routes for the comm (flame first, then incen, then AA? or AA then flame)
Cons:
-possibly heavy on the engine (dunno how far source can go with coding, but the fact that the fire shots are sprites with no model should make it low enough.
Just my fully laid out idea of the flamethrower.
I feel like a flamethrower, if included, will be something in between a gun and the gl. A structure destroying flamethrower seems to almost take the place of the gl. Personally, i don't think i would even mind if it were replaced, since the gl often gets really cheap kills, but i think it should be included to increase the variety of weapons.
I think the (hypothetical) flamethrower should do slightly less than lmg damage to aliens, but wouldn't be as effective as an lmg against skulks since the flames would take a short moment to reach their target (if at a distance) and would reduce visibility for both the shooter and for teammates. It should be non-reloading, so it would be a more effective than an lmg against onoses and gorges. It would then do like 1.5x damage against structures, where it's main advantage against the structure would be lack of reloading time. Although non-reloading, it would also go through ammo fast and hold plenty. I don't really like the idea of creatures burning for a while after shot since it would result in cheap deaths, but would at least like to see the visual part of a gorge burning (mmm toasty). structures receiving burning damage would be fine.
note: this is just my vision of the ns2 flamethrower.
I also think the welder should act like a shortrange mini flamethrower for removing DI (it wouldn't do this as well as a flamethrower though) that just does very little damage like the current welder. Maybe it could also work as a team flashlight <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> real dynamic lighting ftw!
Return to Castle Wolfenstein had a volumetric flamethrower... im pretty sure... but it didnt bank around corners... im pretty sure.
You could perhaps model the first few feet of the flame, and then have it the sprites shoot out from a wider circle (an SG shoots out from a pinpoint).
I cant remember what game it was, but high-def sprites that simply go from a spark to a wide fireball (wit the edges really dissipating) to then black smoke to then nothingness, can REALLY look good when they're moving. Source could handle a ton of these. Furthermore, you could code in that they can bounce off walls once or something.
What im saying, is that if you went for a 'realistic' flamethrower, have fun making it be able to whip through vents and all. Sounds like a coding nightmare, possibly requiring one of those new Physics Processors.
Compared to the GL, I think they both fit their roles. The GL is awesome for indirect spam and area damage; tossing grenades around corners and into vents, and into groups of aliens or groups of structures.
The Flamethrower would be less indirect spam, and more of direct spam. It would have the advantage if hitting anything in front of it, compared to a GL which can only do so with a direct hit, which also hurts himself.
The Flamethrower would also be a more focused area damage; The middle of the flame would do the most, while the edges do enough, but like less than half the damage. And it would have a boost against structures because the Flamer could douse a struc or two here, and then turn and douse another while the first keeps burning.
It should be a weapon, but it would obviously be the most optimal with a Heavy suit. Being really heavy, a JPer COULD carry it, but would have severe mobility restriction. A Light could carry it and be fairly effective, but would not be able to inflict enough damage to any type of higher lifeform quickly enough to survive a focused assault. Plus, a Light couldn't stand in front of OCs dousing them for very long. But they could still try, especially with teamwork.
This is all just my conceptualization of not only a really good flamethrower, but a balanced one that finds its niche in the marine tech tree just like every other weapon, PLUS one that is FEASIBLE. We may all want a flamethrower to look just like the one in Aliens, but hey, we'd also like dropship sequences, which have apparently been dropped because they were too hard to make. With an approach that considers how this weapon can actually be built, i'd think that this would give it significant viability.
It could add a lot of interesting gameplay strategies, such as covering the area around which you are building with a temporary defense. The flames would have to do only moderate damage, but enough to make a weakened skulk think twice about jumping through.
A flamethrower that could toast a skulk almost instantly would be a bad idea. Flaming skulks taking up all the room in the spawning area is bad. From what it looks like, it would also be too damaging to structures in conjunction with the time things stayed on fire. Hives would be toast. Fast. But I can't deny - seeing the DI catch on fire and start to spread as marines torched it would be a sight to see.
Charlie's very anal about it. ;P
I was thinking more on the lines of having a Flame-Shot much like in Metal Slug, or to modify the grenade launchers grenades so they explode into a mass fireball.
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That would be a good idea, in my opinion, to have the grenade launcher upgrade (in the tree[s]) to upgrade to a sort-of 'napalm' grenade that does that sort of idea.
But wouldn't that lead to needed equality upgrades for say..the SG, HMG, LMG, etc?
Why wouldn't anyone get the GL if it were possible to get napalm grenades?
Unless, of course, the napalm hurt alien players far worse than structures (opposite of regular grenades)?
That would make sense in my eyes (having a GL that was meant for killing/burning instead of building destruction, giving far more use to the GL for killing instead of just having to go HMG, but perhaps getting an HMG that was meant more for destroying structures but had less ammo [but that's off-topic if anyone wants to create one i'll talk about it on there <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />])
That's kind of my view on it.
but then what role would the GL place?
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Easy... Anti-structure.
As far as removing the shotgun, HELL <!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->NO<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->! That's like my favorite weapon. Raise its cost if your must, but DO NOT gimp it, please. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
And flamethrowers and shotguns are not off to have together. Shotguns are more close range weapons good for both structures and enemy infantry but better at enemy infantry. In my opinion, flamethrowers are an ideal direct counter to dynamic infestation. Personally, I'd like to see it as an upgraded welder that adds a tank on your back of fuel. Which I should say would be nice if it could be countered with a direct hit on the equiped marine's back. (meaning you need your squad to literally cover your backside)
Just make a flamethrower which gives damages to buildings, and just burns a little bit alien lifeforms (like acid liquid on co_daimos, removing about 1hp/s).
And then flamethrower=bile bomb.
As far as removing the shotgun, HELL <!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->NO<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->! That's like my favorite weapon. Raise its cost if your must, but DO NOT gimp it, please. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
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I don't think anyone was saying we should remove the shotgun. I'm simply saying, make the shotty less structure-damaging and add the flamethrower to fill that role.
I don't think anyone was saying we should remove the shotgun. I'm simply saying, make the shotty less structure-damaging and add the flamethrower to fill that role.
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I kind of agree on that.
On CO maps, a shotgun with Uranium Ammunition 5 (given the server has an
XMenu on the server for extra levels [AMXX mod/plugin]) can take out an unhealed
hive in only two full clips.
I believe that if the flamethrower was present (hypothetically speaking), the shotgun
would keep it's role as an 'It's coming right for us' weapon, and lose it's role
as a powerhouse structure destruction weapon like it's used many times.
The GL would still keep it's role as destruction, but maybe give the GL an alternative
to it (the flamethrower) to have an extra help in destruction, as well as fire that
can also burn/scorch structures/aliens/creep.
Anyone else have any idea on mine?
On CO maps, a shotgun with Uranium Ammunition 5 (given the server has an
XMenu on the server for extra levels [AMXX mod/plugin]) can take out an unhealed
hive in only two full clips.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not really sure they should change a part of the game because of problems on CO with xmenu. Please find other example. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Porcep!c,
Co-Extralevel player, co-extralevel blamer <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I'm not really sure they should change a part of the game because of problems on CO with xmenu. Please find other example. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Porcep!c,
Co-Extralevel player, co-extralevel blamer <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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Well another example is that the fact on NS
a team full of shotguns (and well enough people
playing to use them, and hell..a few noobs too)
Can blow a hive off the ceiling PRETTY fast anyways,
even without the help of a GL/Grenades.
Like I said..
More of an alien killing weapon, less of a destruction one.
Keep the GL for that, or make our idea a reality, Flayra <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />