I will be leaving Charlie FLAYRA Cleveland a message on his answering machine to ensure Onos redept at 1 HP all the time with umbra+invul when they redept back into the hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1620314:date=Apr 11 2007, 12:14 PM:name=DuoGodOfDeath)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DuoGodOfDeath @ Apr 11 2007, 12:14 PM) [snapback]1620314[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I will be leaving Charlie FLAYRA Cleveland a message on his answering machine to ensure Onos redept at 1 HP all the time with umbra+invul when they redept back into the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They already do.
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
Let me try and give a serious answer that doesn't involve: OLO get good, OLO get a higher lifeform, or OLO try something else. You asked what to do as skulk vs a sg / hmg here my two cents
get leap, 1 bite per leap, and try and spend as much time in the air. Don't go straight at a marine as he will just use you as skeet. If they are close to walls running a half circle around them while biting is always good, you can do that horizontally or verticall, as long as it keeps the shotty crosshairs off your model, do it.
Ambushing is the best way of course, it's what skulks where designed for. Cloaking can be used to set up ambushes in spots that normally don't have cover, but patients and cunning are the skulks best friend.
Oh, be a vulture and wait for the higher lifeforms to be beat up, and then go in for the kill. A shotgun shoots 8 shots, I usually count when I battle a shotgunner 1v1.
It varies depending on the skill of the marine and the upgrades they have.
I'm not complaining that 1v1 a skulkw ill die... I'm complaining that a skulk, waiting for a chance to strike, will often die of random bullet hits. GL's are the worst offender - their splash damage is large and easily wipes skulks out that are well a ways away from the epicenter. Even if they don't die, by decloaking an ambushing skulk or causing a bright green bloodspatter in a normally dark corner, the skulk is now in the proverbial meat grinder.
skulk + clarity + focus > shotgun. they just leveld up their attack so their armour is pretty poor. get drapace and bounce off the walls. or evolve into something else.
skulk+celerity+focus, then get carapace. You sure you got that right? Because that seems to be a 3-hive solution. Which means that by then, shotguns aren't the biggest of your worries
<!--quoteo(post=1624208:date=May 1 2007, 12:38 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cereal_KillR @ May 1 2007, 12:38 PM) [snapback]1624208[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> skulk+celerity+focus, then get carapace. You sure you got that right? Because that seems to be a 3-hive solution. Which means that by then, shotguns aren't the biggest of your worries <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think maybe he's speaking about combat here. Which is of course a whole different ballgame.
<!--quoteo(post=1624165:date=May 1 2007, 05:07 AM:name=fearian)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fearian @ May 1 2007, 05:07 AM) [snapback]1624165[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->skulk + <b>clarity</b> + focus > shotgun. they just leveld up their attack so their armour is pretty poor. get drapace and bounce off the walls. or evolve into something else. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Clarity is definitely a useful spell. I just wish we had enough experience to cast Wail of the Banshee or Isaac's Greater Missle Storm. Hell, what about Timestop?! Oh wait... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Seriously though if we are talking about Combat go for fade, lerk, or xenocide. It's very hard to stop a good xenocider. In a typical 30 min game I'll die almost a hundred times and get 50 xenocide kills, but here's the thing, it's more that I help my team with striping the marine's armor (making it easier for fades and onii) and I rarely die to a marine, so I'm not "feeding".
In NS maps it can be harder, but that's where leap and the gorge's healspray comes into play. Very few gorges are good at being the cleric class for NS and that's half of the issue.
NEVER underestimate the power of silence. Also, after the first bite, circle around and bite what WAS their back. (After 1 bite, every semi-experienced marine will turn 180 and fire -- instantly.)
Focus doesn't reduce your damage over time. If you are attacking a marine it is virtually impossible for even the best players to reliably get 4 straight bites without a miss. Even if you can manage that, any reasonably good marine will have a freaking massive skulk in his crosshairs because you are so close to him and kill you within milliseconds. With focus you do not need to hit 4 straight bites in a row, and you don't need to stick to the marine at all. You put one rush in to bite, circle strafe off, and then hit the second bite, keeping your skulk out of the marines crosshairs by moving wherever you want and not having to worry about missing your second or third bite. Also, 2 focus bites takes less time to execute then 4 regular bites, so the marine dies faster to focus even in non ideal circumstances.
When it comes to attacking RT's and other structures, focus doesn't drain as much adrenaline, which means most of the time it's superior in terms of time it takes to destroy the structure. And with a full adren bar if a marine comes in and catches you chomping on a structure you can actually defend yourself instantly, you don't need to wait for enough adrenaline to fight.
<!--quoteo(post=1624409:date=May 2 2007, 12:00 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ May 2 2007, 12:00 PM) [snapback]1624409[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Focus doesn't reduce your damage over time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you jocking ?
Focus level 0: - Damages: 75.0 - Delay between attacks: 0.4 - Number of attacks in 20 seconds: 21/0.4=52.5 -> 52 - Damages done in 20 seconds: 75.0 x52 = 3900.0 Focus level 1: - Damages: 99.8 - Delay between attacks: 0.6 - Number of attacks in 20 seconds: 21/0.6=35 -> 35 - Damages done in 20 seconds: 99.8 x35 = 3493.0 Focus level 2: - Damages: 124.5 - Delay between attacks: 0.8 - Number of attacks in 20 seconds: 21/0.8=26.25 -> 26 - Damages done in 20 seconds: 124.5 x26 = 3237.0 Focus level 3: - Damages: 149.3 - Delay between attacks: 1.0 - Number of attacks in 20 seconds: 21/1.0=21 -> 21 - Damages done in 20 seconds: 149.3 x21 = 3135.3<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
<!--quoteo(post=1624409:date=May 2 2007, 12:00 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ May 2 2007, 12:00 PM) [snapback]1624409[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When it comes to attacking RT's and other structures, focus doesn't drain as much adrenaline, which means most of the time it's superior in terms of time it takes to destroy the structure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tested. It's faster to a skulk without focus to destroy a RT.
The advantage to focus is that it does a large amount of damage at a single time, similar to the shotty. The disadvantage is that if you miss your bite, you don't get another chance to hit for a short while.
but if you packing 5 levels of hunger, it'll be wnb version of pistol script instagibbin everything you see <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1624409:date=May 2 2007, 06:00 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ May 2 2007, 06:00 AM) [snapback]1624409[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When it comes to attacking RT's and other structures, focus doesn't drain as much adrenaline, which means most of the time it's superior in terms of time it takes to destroy the structure. And with a full adren bar if a marine comes in and catches you chomping on a structure you can actually defend yourself instantly, you don't need to wait for enough adrenaline to fight. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMHO, one of the <i>best</i> benefits about <b>early SC</b> outside of the obvious. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
having adren or focus skulks against you only on RTs means a loss. Was it a clan game or pub. No comm can withstand a constant huge dps skulks on rts. With 2 hives focus RT biters comes with leap which means your fumble attempts of recapping without guns is futile. Pubs and scrims are quite scaled on this one actually. In pubs people tend to go for Rts at the start and then just rambo off and skulks will eventually get intersted in the RTs. Matches RTs are on much more focus thus the Recapping and destroying rate will be somewhere near pub. The fact stands that comm needs someone on RTs scaled between 2 players doing it actively on pub or 5 players doing it occasionally on pub round.
<!--quoteo(post=1624724:date=May 3 2007, 07:09 PM:name=Joe2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Joe2 @ May 3 2007, 07:09 PM) [snapback]1624724[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Tested. It's faster to a skulk without focus to destroy a RT. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gotcha.
If you arrive at the RT with 0 adren (you leapt to the rt) then the focus skulks should be faster. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1619994:date=Apr 10 2007, 06:11 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Apr 10 2007, 06:11 AM) [snapback]1619994[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I don't know what you're talking about. Get leap and focus and you'll tear marines a new one. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On servers with lousy reg you can absolutely slaughter. On good servers, not so much.
<!--quoteo(post=1629691:date=May 28 2007, 06:03 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ May 28 2007, 06:03 PM) [snapback]1629691[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> On servers with lousy reg you can absolutely slaughter. On good servers, not so much. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1624724:date=May 3 2007, 12:09 PM:name=Joe2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Joe2 @ May 3 2007, 12:09 PM) [snapback]1624724[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Are you jocking ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nope. Yes, I'm aware that strictly statistically speaking focus does decrease your damage per second. My point is that... 1) damage per second is virtually irrellevent when fighting marines, it's much more important that you are able to do large ammounts of damage with the fewest ammounts of attacks. 2 focus bites takes less time to execute then 4 regular bites 2) focus drains 1/3 the amount of adrenaline, so the focus skulk never runs into "I've bitten too fast" wall, which was ignored in your calculations entirely. The longer a skulk has to sit biting something, the faster the focus skulk will be as opposed to a regular skulk. and if you start from the point of leaping into a room and parasiting a node (at which point your adrenaline will be less then half) the focus skulk will be able to regenerate adrenaline to full while biting the node down, the nonfocus skulk will be stuck at 0 adrenaline after a few seconds and not only be able to attack at a rate about the same as a focus skulk, but also do signifigantly less damage per bite, and not have enough adreniline to respond to an attack without stopping biting for several seconds.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Tested. It's faster to a skulk without focus to destroy a RT. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> By how many seconds? What about focus L1/2? What if the skulk starts with half an adreniline bar, that's a pretty common scenario in ns?
I'm not going to argue one point, in my opinion an adreniline SOF leap skulk is the best node eater in NS... but he also has a fraction of the combat capabilities of a focus celer leap skulk. If one must use celerity because it's a good combat ability that allows the skulks to compete with marines in the mid game, then it's always preferable to have focus as well, because it's also a good ability that allows the skulk alot of ability to counter mid game marines. If I had a choice between focus and adrenaline, like for combat or something, maby I'd pick adrenaline because it allows me to leap more times, and it also allows me to bite down nodes faster. But that isn't my choice in regular NS, because I need celerity, and unless I have adreniline focus is always the prefered ability to have, even for a skulk that knows it will spend some of it's time biting nodes down.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In fact, it's a hit and run ability...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it isn't, you very rarely want to be hitting and running with a skulk, with any upgrade. Skulk is a kamakazi lifeform, with a skulk, unless it's impossible to do (5 marines or something) you should attacking until you've killed everything in the room. Your lifeform costs nothing, and it doesn't have enough health to reliably exit once it's done it's damage, so you just cut your losses and accept the death with the skulk. Focus helps you do more damage to marines at a faster rate with less fire acctually being focused on you because you are able to keep moving. Focus just generally increases the ability for skulks to kill marines. It's also the counter to jetpacks, because a jetpack flying around, even with 100 health but 0 armor (because he's been bitten once) only has to be bitten once to be killed, whereas with medspam and the ability to use knockback to fly away from a skulk good jetpacks under good commanders can survive 3 regular bites and live another day even if they have no armor. Once a jetpack has flown away from you, it doesn't matter how skilled you are, you're not going to hit more bites on them. You only can hit them while you have managed to get them stuck to your location for a period of time, and that period of time needs to be only a fraction of a second with focus, while it needs to be several seconds with normal bite.
In response to Swift: It is very rarely correct for a skulk to take "no upgrade" instead of "focus" out of fear of the reduced attack rate. Focus still offers more good than bad despite the drawback of slightly reduced damage-over-time. However, you can make a much stronger argument for taking one of the <i>other</i> very useful sensory upgrades in place of focus, and the lower attack rate with focus definately plays into that. Is a focus skulk better than a vanilla skulk? Almost always. But is it better than a cloaking skulk? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the situation.
Comments
WTH WHY DIDNT I REDEEM?! DEVS FIX REDEMPTION WOW ITS SO BORKED
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WOW WHY R U INSULTING MY SKILL AND PATRONIZING ME FORUM BAN TWO WEEKS OR IM LEAVING
I will be leaving Charlie FLAYRA Cleveland a message on his answering machine to ensure Onos redept at 1 HP all the time with umbra+invul when they redept back into the hive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They already do.
get leap, 1 bite per leap, and try and spend as much time in the air. Don't go straight at a marine as he will just use you as skeet. If they are close to walls running a half circle around them while biting is always good, you can do that horizontally or verticall, as long as it keeps the shotty crosshairs off your model, do it.
Ambushing is the best way of course, it's what skulks where designed for. Cloaking can be used to set up ambushes in spots that normally don't have cover, but patients and cunning are the skulks best friend.
Oh, be a vulture and wait for the higher lifeforms to be beat up, and then go in for the kill. A shotgun shoots 8 shots, I usually count when I battle a shotgunner 1v1.
It varies depending on the skill of the marine and the upgrades they have.
I'm not complaining that 1v1 a skulkw ill die... I'm complaining that a skulk, waiting for a chance to strike, will often die of random bullet hits. GL's are the worst offender - their splash damage is large and easily wipes skulks out that are well a ways away from the epicenter. Even if they don't die, by decloaking an ambushing skulk or causing a bright green bloodspatter in a normally dark corner, the skulk is now in the proverbial meat grinder.
skulk+celerity+focus, then get carapace. You sure you got that right? Because that seems to be a 3-hive solution. Which means that by then, shotguns aren't the biggest of your worries
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think maybe he's speaking about combat here. Which is of course a whole different ballgame.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Clarity is definitely a useful spell. I just wish we had enough experience to cast Wail of the Banshee or Isaac's Greater Missle Storm. Hell, what about Timestop?! Oh wait... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Seriously though if we are talking about Combat go for fade, lerk, or xenocide. It's very hard to stop a good xenocider. In a typical 30 min game I'll die almost a hundred times and get 50 xenocide kills, but here's the thing, it's more that I help my team with striping the marine's armor (making it easier for fades and onii) and I rarely die to a marine, so I'm not "feeding".
In NS maps it can be harder, but that's where leap and the gorge's healspray comes into play. Very few gorges are good at being the cleric class for NS and that's half of the issue.
When it comes to attacking RT's and other structures, focus doesn't drain as much adrenaline, which means most of the time it's superior in terms of time it takes to destroy the structure. And with a full adren bar if a marine comes in and catches you chomping on a structure you can actually defend yourself instantly, you don't need to wait for enough adrenaline to fight.
Are you jocking ?
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->Skulk bite attack:
Focus level 0:
- Damages: 75.0
- Delay between attacks: 0.4
- Number of attacks in 20 seconds: 21/0.4=52.5 -> 52
- Damages done in 20 seconds: 75.0 x52 = 3900.0
Focus level 1:
- Damages: 99.8
- Delay between attacks: 0.6
- Number of attacks in 20 seconds: 21/0.6=35 -> 35
- Damages done in 20 seconds: 99.8 x35 = 3493.0
Focus level 2:
- Damages: 124.5
- Delay between attacks: 0.8
- Number of attacks in 20 seconds: 21/0.8=26.25 -> 26
- Damages done in 20 seconds: 124.5 x26 = 3237.0
Focus level 3:
- Damages: 149.3
- Delay between attacks: 1.0
- Number of attacks in 20 seconds: 21/1.0=21 -> 21
- Damages done in 20 seconds: 149.3 x21 = 3135.3<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
<!--quoteo(post=1624409:date=May 2 2007, 12:00 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ May 2 2007, 12:00 PM) [snapback]1624409[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When it comes to attacking RT's and other structures, focus doesn't drain as much adrenaline, which means most of the time it's superior in terms of time it takes to destroy the structure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tested. It's faster to a skulk without focus to destroy a RT.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMHO, one of the <i>best</i> benefits about <b>early SC</b> outside of the obvious. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
No comm can withstand a constant huge dps skulks on rts. With 2 hives focus RT biters comes with leap which means your fumble attempts of recapping without guns is futile. Pubs and scrims are quite scaled on this one actually.
In pubs people tend to go for Rts at the start and then just rambo off and skulks will eventually get intersted in the RTs. Matches RTs are on much more focus thus the Recapping and destroying rate will be somewhere near pub. The fact stands that comm needs someone on RTs scaled between 2 players doing it actively on pub or 5 players doing it occasionally on pub round.
Tested. It's faster to a skulk without focus to destroy a RT.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gotcha.
If you arrive at the RT with 0 adren (you leapt to the rt) then the focus skulks should be faster. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I don't know what you're talking about. Get leap and focus and you'll tear marines a new one.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On servers with lousy reg you can absolutely slaughter. On good servers, not so much.
On servers with lousy reg you can absolutely slaughter. On good servers, not so much.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
qft
Are you jocking ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope. Yes, I'm aware that strictly statistically speaking focus does decrease your damage per second. My point is that...
1) damage per second is virtually irrellevent when fighting marines, it's much more important that you are able to do large ammounts of damage with the fewest ammounts of attacks. 2 focus bites takes less time to execute then 4 regular bites
2) focus drains 1/3 the amount of adrenaline, so the focus skulk never runs into "I've bitten too fast" wall, which was ignored in your calculations entirely. The longer a skulk has to sit biting something, the faster the focus skulk will be as opposed to a regular skulk. and if you start from the point of leaping into a room and parasiting a node (at which point your adrenaline will be less then half) the focus skulk will be able to regenerate adrenaline to full while biting the node down, the nonfocus skulk will be stuck at 0 adrenaline after a few seconds and not only be able to attack at a rate about the same as a focus skulk, but also do signifigantly less damage per bite, and not have enough adreniline to respond to an attack without stopping biting for several seconds.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Tested. It's faster to a skulk without focus to destroy a RT.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By how many seconds? What about focus L1/2? What if the skulk starts with half an adreniline bar, that's a pretty common scenario in ns?
I'm not going to argue one point, in my opinion an adreniline SOF leap skulk is the best node eater in NS... but he also has a fraction of the combat capabilities of a focus celer leap skulk. If one must use celerity because it's a good combat ability that allows the skulks to compete with marines in the mid game, then it's always preferable to have focus as well, because it's also a good ability that allows the skulk alot of ability to counter mid game marines. If I had a choice between focus and adrenaline, like for combat or something, maby I'd pick adrenaline because it allows me to leap more times, and it also allows me to bite down nodes faster. But that isn't my choice in regular NS, because I need celerity, and unless I have adreniline focus is always the prefered ability to have, even for a skulk that knows it will spend some of it's time biting nodes down.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In fact, it's a hit and run ability...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it isn't, you very rarely want to be hitting and running with a skulk, with any upgrade. Skulk is a kamakazi lifeform, with a skulk, unless it's impossible to do (5 marines or something) you should attacking until you've killed everything in the room. Your lifeform costs nothing, and it doesn't have enough health to reliably exit once it's done it's damage, so you just cut your losses and accept the death with the skulk. Focus helps you do more damage to marines at a faster rate with less fire acctually being focused on you because you are able to keep moving. Focus just generally increases the ability for skulks to kill marines. It's also the counter to jetpacks, because a jetpack flying around, even with 100 health but 0 armor (because he's been bitten once) only has to be bitten once to be killed, whereas with medspam and the ability to use knockback to fly away from a skulk good jetpacks under good commanders can survive 3 regular bites and live another day even if they have no armor. Once a jetpack has flown away from you, it doesn't matter how skilled you are, you're not going to hit more bites on them. You only can hit them while you have managed to get them stuck to your location for a period of time, and that period of time needs to be only a fraction of a second with focus, while it needs to be several seconds with normal bite.