VA tech shooting
<div class="IPBDescription">not a lot of details</div>last I heard 22 dead, 21 injured, gunman dead
2 incidents, don't know if they're by the same gunman.
info is everywhere so pick a site.
This isn't all that far from where I am right now.
new update:
numbers have risen.
29 dead
28 being treated 4 in critical condition
unconfirmed as far as I know.
yet another update :
32 dead (fed source)
2 incidents, don't know if they're by the same gunman.
info is everywhere so pick a site.
This isn't all that far from where I am right now.
new update:
numbers have risen.
29 dead
28 being treated 4 in critical condition
unconfirmed as far as I know.
yet another update :
32 dead (fed source)
Comments
My college has a security guard with a taser, batton, and mace. She is about 5 foot even and is built like a runner. Very cute, but I highly doubt she could hold her own 1v1, especially as she has no martial arts training, just basic self defense (I've talked with her)
Most high schools don't even have THAT. Harrisburg area, we have a single officer patrolling 3 different high schools. How stupid is that?
Personally, I think all public schools should REQUIRE metal detectors, at least TWO stationed officers who are packing, and reinforced doors/walls that are at least bullet resistant.
Expensive, I know, but worth it for the safety of our student.
I thought American schools had a lot of precautions to stop this kind of thing happening.
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no, there is not much that can be done to prevent this type of event.
Sure, there are ways, but they are so invasive/expensive that they are no longer feasible.
Remember that college campuses are large, that it generally would be the equivalent of trying to lock down a small town. sure you can impose checkpoints on all the roads, put up razor wire fences (better electrify them, or just build stone walls), post guards, and guard towers. But by this point your quint little college town has become a prison.
And measures like that would be required to stop this type of act. The person is not sane, and thus the normal deterrents to doing something like this (aka getting shot), generally will no longer apply to them, either b/c they have no fear of death, or plan on committing suicide anyway.
These types of things are truly depressing. I have the greatest sympathy for the Friends and families of the victims. Killed when they are so young.
side note:
Yah, in the case of High Schools. Some have metal detectors, but the generally don't have them on every door (so they lock the other doors, and those can be opened from the inside so they are not a fire hazard). Even in cases like this it can't really stop an event like this. Metal detectors are to keep the punks and gangers from brining knives/guns to school. If some one has no desire to live, they can walk in with a hand gun and simply shoot the security guard.
Preventing this type of thing can only reliably be done by preempting the type of situation that can lead to it.
edit at Kittamaru:
How many entrances are there into a school? So we HAVE to have a metal detector and 2 guards (one guard can easily be shot dead before they can react) at each door (otherwise you can let some one in a side door, as they can't be locked for fire reasons).
And if it is a College like the looks of this one, you need to wall the entire place off, razor wire to prevent them from climbing the walls, patrolling guards, etc etc.
We just don't have the money for it, and never will.
What COULD be done is make sure that the staff knows what to look for as early warning signs, know how to handle the situation, stay in contact with parent, oh and for parents to GIVE A ish.
sigh.
These types of situations can only be prevented by catching them before they happen.
Oh and a random note:
I went to school in the Bronx (one of the 5 safest school in the US), no metal detectors, 1 guard on the main entrance and a few wandering around the school at all times (all other entrances were locked almost all the time, though they could be opened from the inside). Supposedly they had weapons available to them, but they didn't carry them around with them. To be honest I am glad that this was what my school was like this. I know I would never have been comfterable walking by an armed officer every day. The first time I ever walked out of a subway to find my self staring at the muzzle of an M16 was disconcerting enough, even if I did quickly process it as a national guards man (this was my first time back to the city from college after 9/11).
ish turns into ish?
That is a new swear filter...
what about ######?
Personally, I think all public schools should REQUIRE metal detectors, at least TWO stationed officers who are packing, and reinforced doors/walls that are at least bullet resistant.
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oO
What about simply denieing civilians the right to bear and purchase arms?
You know, a massacre is usually extremely hard to pull off, when all you have is a sword instead of a 900rpm assault rifle with a drum-mag of 100 rounds capacity.
######' *******.
If you're not secure in your psychological faculties by the time you reach college you should not be going to college and you shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm. And instead of spending that money on ultimately useless metal detectors and giant concrete walls, how about parenting classes and psychological evaluations? A simple "do you believe what you see and hear in video games, movies and so music is true?" and "Do you have the urge to kill anyone?" Yes on either account and they disallow you from going to a high school, a gun shop, or a college.
Bah, I'm so glad I'm not in the country at the moment...
Holy cow, that's overkill. I mean, how many bullets do you have to shoot to kill or injure that many people? That guy must have been really packing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
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Assuming he went through basic military training, he would have most likely shot burst of 3-5 rounds for every target (assuming that he fought under 100m most of the time). So in order to fight 40 targets you would need about 160 bullets or 5 overloaded stanag mags. Take into account that a 5.56 weighs 4g you have the assault rifle (3.5-4kg) the mags (120-180g x5) and the bullets 160x4g totaling in just a little over 5kg (depending on what exact type of rifle and blablabla) so if you really wanto to pack yourself with bullets you could take easily as much as 300 shots totaling around 6.5kg.
Of course you prolly want some tactical gear for quick magazine acess etc and maybe a backup weapon which means that even with this kind of overkill you will ever hardly carry more than 10kg around (including your own clothing).
Assuming he went through basic military training, he would have most likely shot burst of 3-5 rounds for every target (assuming that he fought under 100m most of the time). So in order to fight 40 targets you would need about 160 bullets or 5 overloaded stanag mags. Take into account that a 5.56 weighs 4g you have the assault rifle (3.5-4kg) the mags (120-180g x5) and the bullets 160x4g totaling in just a little over 5kg (depending on what exact type of rifle and blablabla) so if you really wanto to pack yourself with bullets you could take easily as much as 300 shots totaling around 6.5kg.
Of course you prolly want some tactical gear for quick magazine acess etc and maybe a backup weapon which means that even with this kind of overkill you will ever hardly carry more than 10kg around (including your own clothing).
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According to what I've seen, he had two 9mm's and anywhere from 5-10 clips of ammo for them.
He also shot most of the people in one lecture hall/classroom, after forcing them to lie on the ground backs up.
Yeah, bullets have this little thing known as 100% Kill rate when shot point-blank to the back of the skull.
Wouldn't the people decide to just get up and run away in panic when they see others are getting executed at point blank range?
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Oh gee, I don't think anyone though of that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" /> .
Get your trenches ready people. Soon they're coming after us gamers D:
According to what I've seen, he had two 9mm's and anywhere from 5-10 clips of ammo for them.
He also shot most of the people in one lecture hall/classroom, after forcing them to lie on the ground backs up.
Yeah, bullets have this little thing known as 100% Kill rate when shot point-blank to the back of the skull.
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Semi-automatic pistols?
Or fully automatic smgs?
Its actualy too bad, that fear is our worst enemy in such situations. If a shooting happens and instead of people running away (I dont blame them, I would most likely do the same) they would turn around and start charging the shooter he would be screwed if he only had pistols.)
But lets do the math for 2 pistols. I will use the HK p8 as an example, simpy because if know htem and have been trained to use them:
It weighs 720g
The 9x19 ammo is about 8g each
the mags are 150g each
a single mag packs 15 9x19
So if ha had 8 clips with him, he would have carried 2x720 + 8x150 + 120x8 =3,6kg witheout any tactical gear. So lets just assume he has got a 2 tactical holsters as well as mag pouches and etc he would never land above 6kg. Its actually pretty scaring. Now consider how easy weapons can be purchased in the US (correct me if I am wrong) but all you need to do is be an american citizen, 18 years old and then there is a background check which you better pass. And 3 weeks after applying for it you got your gun. It's imho just problamatic that guns can he purchased by persons that have not even be trained to use them or what to take of etc.
Take switzerland for an example: They have a conscript army and everyone keeps their personal weapon after their time as a conscript. So every swiss household has a rifle, BUT they have actually be trained to use it. The respect the impact that guns can have on person on the other end of the barell. This does imho not apply to a student, who never served in an army, who has never been instructed how to aim and how to handle weapons safely. A person who has all of his gun knowlege from films and videogames. I bet that over 90% of those massacrees dont even know how to disassamble and clean the weapons they are using in their respective massacre.
snip
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Who cares? Why are you analyzing it? The dude(s) who did it have done it. This ain't gonna bring back the guys and girls that took a hot one.
RIP.
Who cares? Why are you analyzing it? The dude(s) who did it have done it. This ain't gonna bring back the guys and girls that took a hot one.
RIP.
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Because it happens quite frequently and it might be a good idea, to know where this destructive potential comes from? I am pretty shure they would have a hard time killing more than 30 people with just a knife!
Oh, and, wow, this has to be a record for Jacko.
<a href="http://kotaku.com/gaming/virginia-tech/breaking-idiot-thompson-blames-va-shooting-on-games-252702.php" target="_blank">http://kotaku.com/gaming/virginia-tech/bre...ames-252702.php</a>
edit: as far as I know, all my friends that went to VA tech have already graduated.
Most high schools don't even have THAT.
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My high school (North Hollywood High) had several armed (with Glocks) police officers and all the Deans/Administrators had portable metal detectors. But my High School was definitely rough.
oO
What about simply denieing civilians the right to bear and purchase arms?
You know, a massacre is usually extremely hard to pull off, when all you have is a sword instead of a 900rpm assault rifle with a drum-mag of 100 rounds capacity.
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YOU FAIL! Banning firearms from LEGITIMATE citizens does nothing!
Actually, it does. It means those who get their weapons illegaly can now SAFELY assault and raid houses without fear of reprisal! I like the fact that, should someone break into my house with a gun, I can put a baseball sized hole in his leg with my 1911 Colt .45 and, if he keeps moving, do the same to his chest. He's on MY land, in MY house, threatening MY family. He's DEAD. period.
Ban guns, and all the "law abiding" citizens are now helpless... remember, this happened in the United Kingdom... worst mistake they ever made!
I blame rock music. No wait, violence on tv.
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<a href="http://qdb.us/56806" target="_blank">http://qdb.us/56806</a>
<comwalk> Remember, here in the U.S.A, we have reached a new age.
<comwalk> NOBODY is responsible for their own actions.
<comwalk> Remember that.
<comwalk> holy skulk! I killed somebody! Bob made me do it!
<comwalk> Bob: Joe made me do it!
<comwalk> Joe: I blame the media!
<comwalk> Media: Videogames.
<comwalk> Videogames: Personal responsibility?
<comwalk> Personal Responsibility: <AFK>
It stops more firearms being available?
I'll have to wait to see how old the person who did the shooting in this was, but look at Columbine. Teenagers, under 21, had guns. What did your lax gun laws do? Nothing. They still obtained them from people who brought the guns legally. However, with stricter gun laws they probably wouldn't of been able to get their firearms.
I do think everyone that purchases a weapon should be required to pass more than a background check; I wouldn't say mandatory weapon training, because then you're bound to get idiot gangsters or someone who shouldn't be trained how to use a weapon with a ...well...weapon. I'd guess that a majority of firearms murders are actually done 'illegally', in that the weapon is taken from the legal owner or it's not a legal firearm. It always seems like the whackos always have a grandpa who always gas a gun-safe which is always unlocked/easily accessed.
...Maybe we need a new gun-law-discussion-thread in the discussion forum...
it seems the police did a pathetic job here. if you watch the cell phone video you see them standing around behind trees as 30 shots are fired off in the distance... it seems they prefer unarmed students deal with the gunman than take any risk wrinkling their new flak jackets.