<!--quoteo(post=1625401:date=May 7 2007, 01:01 AM:name=GreyFlcn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreyFlcn @ May 7 2007, 01:01 AM) [snapback]1625401[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> As far as styling goes, any thoughts on this car?
<a href="http://www.greyfalcon.net/truck2" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.greyfalcon.net/sut2.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a> <img src="http://www.greyfalcon.net/sut.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It looks pretty good until you see that they fused the front grill with down syndrome...
ChocolateThe Team MascotJoin Date: 2006-10-31Member: 58123Members
Haven't read the rest of the post...
I remember watching a documentary in class (yes, I payed attention, project on it coming up) and it said that the electric car was dead, that the oil companies, car companies, the government and other factors tried to stop the development of electric cars and try to kill it because it wouldn't make them as much money, if any.
<!--quoteo(post=1625732:date=May 8 2007, 02:33 PM:name=Chocolate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chocolate @ May 8 2007, 02:33 PM) [snapback]1625732[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Haven't read the rest of the post...
I remember watching a documentary in class (yes, I payed attention, project on it coming up) and it said that the electric car was dead, that the oil companies, car companies, the government and other factors tried to stop the development of electric cars and try to kill it because it wouldn't make them as much money, if any.
My 2 res... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They actually "killed" it because it wasn't a viable project the way they were going about it. They took everyone's cars so they wouldn't be liable for parts or for damages if it exploded or something.
<!--quoteo(post=1625737:date=May 8 2007, 09:56 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ May 8 2007, 09:56 PM) [snapback]1625737[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> They actually "killed" it because it wasn't a viable project the way they were going about it. They took everyone's cars so they wouldn't be liable for parts or for damages if it exploded or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I've heard the same thing. But after seeing the movie and seeing whats happened since it seems to look more like an excuse than a reason.<ul><li>California put out a law requiring a certain percentage of car manufacturers CA fleets be electric.</li><li>Electric cars got built.</li><li>Car companies offered the the CARB chairman to be the president on their new "Hydrogen Fuel Cell Commitee" (Of which this guy had a big interest in fuel cells previously)</li><li>Law got changed not to require electric cars</li><li>All the electric cars get taken back.</li><li>But not only taken back, but every last one of them was crushed, and then shredded.</li><li>And not just GM. But EVERY manufacturer.</li><li>And since then all they've been doing is parading around hydrogen fuel cell cars.</li><li>Which they have essentially no obligation to produce, and pretty much never will.</li></ul> The "parts" thing is rather humorous because electric cars have about 10x less parts. And the ammount of maintanence they require is neglible.
Largely, this is why car companies do not like them. They make a killing on selling spare parts and maintanence. Not to mention, it would make most of their sunk manufacturing costs obsolete.
And if they were so worried about recouping costs, and legal issues. They could have just accepted the multi million dollar check being offered to buy the cars. And then had the people sign legal waivers.
_
Note, yes the batteries were failing. But the first ones they installed weren't all that good. (Lead Acid)
And then <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J5f9x_RfHI" target="_blank">GM bought controlling stock in a "new" Nickel Metal Hydride battery technology.</a> But didn't install them in the cars, and waited 2 years before they did that.
And then sold that battery tech over to Chevron when they scrapped the cars.
More or less, they didn't want these vehicles to succeed.
Which is also shown by their advertising. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOV3zDdKRqQ" target="_blank">OMG I want to buy this vehicle.....</a>
I mean come on.
_
An example of the excuse arguement: US car companies have had a ~27 mpg company wide fuel effeciency standard for the past 30 years.
In the last week they've been saying that in the next 12 years, they cannot raise that up to a mere 35 mpg. <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/07/carmakers-say-new-fuel-economy-regulations-are-unattainable-bs/" target="_blank">That it's "unobtainable".</a>
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
The truck looks.... bent. Like if I flipped it on it's head I could use it as a see-saw.
I liked the look of the other cars though.
Question about the zap-x: That recharging time requires a special recharging station right?(I think I saw the article on /.). Since gas stations don't have these (yet) how much does it cost to have one stations installed/running? And why aren't there more rechargable stations around since theoretically they wouldn't require gallons of highly flammable liquid to be delivered to them often and could pull their "fuel" off the local grid?(or solar/wind panels if one were so inclined)
<!--quoteo(post=1625869:date=May 9 2007, 09:17 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ May 9 2007, 09:17 PM) [snapback]1625869[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Question about the zap-x: That recharging time requires a special recharging station right?(I think I saw the article on /.). Since gas stations don't have these (yet) how much does it cost to have one stations installed/running? And why aren't there more rechargable stations around since theoretically they wouldn't require gallons of highly flammable liquid to be delivered to them often and could pull their "fuel" off the local grid?(or solar/wind panels if one were so inclined) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well it depends. You can charge up to 80% capacity MUCH faster than 100%
For instance the original EV1 vehicles using special stations could charge up to 80% in about 10-15 minutes. <a href="http://www.altfuels.org/events/otherafv/quikchrg.html" target="_blank">http://www.altfuels.org/events/otherafv/quikchrg.html</a>
_
Ironically Toyota and Ford and 2 other car manufacturers use this tech for all their forklifts. <a href="http://www.posicharge.com/" target="_blank">http://www.posicharge.com/</a> <a href="http://www.posicharge.com/ford.html" target="_blank">http://www.posicharge.com/ford.html</a> <a href="http://www.posicharge.com/5-0.html" target="_blank">http://www.posicharge.com/5-0.html</a>
_
But for perfect flexibility, what you have are "series hybrid" electric cars. Which are essentially fully electric car, with the bare minimum components to add an electric generator. <a href="http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2007/04/phoenix_motors_.html" target="_blank">http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/...ix_motors_.html</a> <a href="http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/04/phoenix-motorcars-plugin.php" target="_blank">http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/04/ph...cars-plugin.php</a>
Or where you merely take a hybrid like a Prius, and add a bigger battery <a href="http://greyfalcon.net/plugins" target="_blank">http://greyfalcon.net/plugins</a>
Comments
<a href="http://www.greyfalcon.net/truck2" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.greyfalcon.net/sut2.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
<img src="http://www.greyfalcon.net/sut.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
What's wrong with reliability?
Would rather have a hot wife that cheats?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That, a blindfold and some earplugs, yes.
As far as styling goes, any thoughts on this car?
<a href="http://www.greyfalcon.net/truck2" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.greyfalcon.net/sut2.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
<img src="http://www.greyfalcon.net/sut.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It looks pretty good until you see that they fused the front grill with down syndrome...
I remember watching a documentary in class (yes, I payed attention, project on it coming up) and it said that the electric car was dead, that the oil companies, car companies, the government and other factors tried to stop the development of electric cars and try to kill it because it wouldn't make them as much money, if any.
My 2 res...
Haven't read the rest of the post...
I remember watching a documentary in class (yes, I payed attention, project on it coming up) and it said that the electric car was dead, that the oil companies, car companies, the government and other factors tried to stop the development of electric cars and try to kill it because it wouldn't make them as much money, if any.
My 2 res...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They actually "killed" it because it wasn't a viable project the way they were going about it. They took everyone's cars so they wouldn't be liable for parts or for damages if it exploded or something.
They actually "killed" it because it wasn't a viable project the way they were going about it. They took everyone's cars so they wouldn't be liable for parts or for damages if it exploded or something.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I've heard the same thing.
But after seeing the movie and seeing whats happened since it seems to look more like an excuse than a reason.<ul><li>California put out a law requiring a certain percentage of car manufacturers CA fleets be electric.</li><li>Electric cars got built.</li><li>Car companies offered the the CARB chairman to be the president on their new "Hydrogen Fuel Cell Commitee" (Of which this guy had a big interest in fuel cells previously)</li><li>Law got changed not to require electric cars</li><li>All the electric cars get taken back.</li><li>But not only taken back, but every last one of them was crushed, and then shredded.</li><li>And not just GM. But EVERY manufacturer.</li><li>And since then all they've been doing is parading around hydrogen fuel cell cars.</li><li>Which they have essentially no obligation to produce, and pretty much never will.</li></ul>
The "parts" thing is rather humorous because electric cars have about 10x less parts.
And the ammount of maintanence they require is neglible.
Largely, this is why car companies do not like them.
They make a killing on selling spare parts and maintanence.
Not to mention, it would make most of their sunk manufacturing costs obsolete.
And if they were so worried about recouping costs, and legal issues.
They could have just accepted the multi million dollar check being offered to buy the cars.
And then had the people sign legal waivers.
_
Note, yes the batteries were failing.
But the first ones they installed weren't all that good. (Lead Acid)
And then <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J5f9x_RfHI" target="_blank">GM bought controlling stock in a "new" Nickel Metal Hydride battery technology.</a>
But didn't install them in the cars, and waited 2 years before they did that.
And then sold that battery tech over to Chevron when they scrapped the cars.
More or less, they didn't want these vehicles to succeed.
Which is also shown by their advertising.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOV3zDdKRqQ" target="_blank">OMG I want to buy this vehicle.....</a>
I mean come on.
_
An example of the excuse arguement:
US car companies have had a ~27 mpg company wide fuel effeciency standard for the past 30 years.
In the last week they've been saying that in the next 12 years, they cannot raise that up to a mere 35 mpg.
<a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/07/carmakers-say-new-fuel-economy-regulations-are-unattainable-bs/" target="_blank">That it's "unobtainable".</a>
Bullish.t
I liked the look of the other cars though.
Question about the zap-x: That recharging time requires a special recharging station right?(I think I saw the article on /.). Since gas stations don't have these (yet) how much does it cost to have one stations installed/running? And why aren't there more rechargable stations around since theoretically they wouldn't require gallons of highly flammable liquid to be delivered to them often and could pull their "fuel" off the local grid?(or solar/wind panels if one were so inclined)
Question about the zap-x: That recharging time requires a special recharging station right?(I think I saw the article on /.). Since gas stations don't have these (yet) how much does it cost to have one stations installed/running? And why aren't there more rechargable stations around since theoretically they wouldn't require gallons of highly flammable liquid to be delivered to them often and could pull their "fuel" off the local grid?(or solar/wind panels if one were so inclined)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it depends.
You can charge up to 80% capacity MUCH faster than 100%
For instance the original EV1 vehicles using special stations could charge up to 80% in about 10-15 minutes.
<a href="http://www.altfuels.org/events/otherafv/quikchrg.html" target="_blank">http://www.altfuels.org/events/otherafv/quikchrg.html</a>
_
Ironically Toyota and Ford and 2 other car manufacturers use this tech for all their forklifts.
<a href="http://www.posicharge.com/" target="_blank">http://www.posicharge.com/</a>
<a href="http://www.posicharge.com/ford.html" target="_blank">http://www.posicharge.com/ford.html</a>
<a href="http://www.posicharge.com/5-0.html" target="_blank">http://www.posicharge.com/5-0.html</a>
_
But for perfect flexibility, what you have are "series hybrid" electric cars.
Which are essentially fully electric car, with the bare minimum components to add an electric generator.
<a href="http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2007/04/phoenix_motors_.html" target="_blank">http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/...ix_motors_.html</a>
<a href="http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/04/phoenix-motorcars-plugin.php" target="_blank">http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/04/ph...cars-plugin.php</a>
Or where you merely take a hybrid like a Prius, and add a bigger battery
<a href="http://greyfalcon.net/plugins" target="_blank">http://greyfalcon.net/plugins</a>