NS2TR & Community maps for NS2
amckern
Join Date: 2003-03-03 Member: 14249Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-03-03 Member: 14249Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Good Luck!</div><a href="http://www.interlopers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17748" target="_blank">http://www.interlopers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17748</a>
<a href="http://www.mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7024&highlight=natural+selection" target="_blank">http://www.mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.ph...tural+selection</a>
Now i got my sources sorted out here is the info:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Hey guys,
That's right, we don't need mappers. <b>That's because we're planning on buying the maps from the community.</b>
We're going to give everyone a technology release (NS2TR) with materials, sounds, the .fgd, mapping guidelines and some of the core NS2 tech (dynamic infestation, commander mode, etc.). Then everyone can start creating maps and we can buy our favorites from you for release in the game.
We're working on the NS2TR now and are focused on releasing it as soon as it's going to be valuable for you!
Thanks,
-Charlie
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the 3rd post on page 2 of the mapcore thread.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
This is pretty much exactly how the first Natural Selection worked. Aside from merk and Relic25 with Bast and Hera, all the other official maps came about by Charlie tossing out the NSTR to the community and basically hand-picking maps to enter official playtesting.
FMPONE hit the nail on the head; not only does it a) help Charlie and the rest of the core team get NS2 out the door at lower cost than dealing with full-time salaried positions and b) lower the risk of committing to just a couple people (who, in this sort of online-only setting, can be awfully flaky at times), it's a fantastic opportunity for entry-level amateur designers to have work featured prominently in a potentially (and hopefully Big Grin ) major project. NS1 under my belt practically counted as having a shipped game.
I can only speak highly of how well it worked the first time around both for NS and for my own personal gain; I can only imagine it'll do even better for both this time around.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>I hope i did not jump any guns KFS / Flayra</b>
<a href="http://www.mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7024&highlight=natural+selection" target="_blank">http://www.mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.ph...tural+selection</a>
Now i got my sources sorted out here is the info:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Hey guys,
That's right, we don't need mappers. <b>That's because we're planning on buying the maps from the community.</b>
We're going to give everyone a technology release (NS2TR) with materials, sounds, the .fgd, mapping guidelines and some of the core NS2 tech (dynamic infestation, commander mode, etc.). Then everyone can start creating maps and we can buy our favorites from you for release in the game.
We're working on the NS2TR now and are focused on releasing it as soon as it's going to be valuable for you!
Thanks,
-Charlie
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the 3rd post on page 2 of the mapcore thread.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
This is pretty much exactly how the first Natural Selection worked. Aside from merk and Relic25 with Bast and Hera, all the other official maps came about by Charlie tossing out the NSTR to the community and basically hand-picking maps to enter official playtesting.
FMPONE hit the nail on the head; not only does it a) help Charlie and the rest of the core team get NS2 out the door at lower cost than dealing with full-time salaried positions and b) lower the risk of committing to just a couple people (who, in this sort of online-only setting, can be awfully flaky at times), it's a fantastic opportunity for entry-level amateur designers to have work featured prominently in a potentially (and hopefully Big Grin ) major project. NS1 under my belt practically counted as having a shipped game.
I can only speak highly of how well it worked the first time around both for NS and for my own personal gain; I can only imagine it'll do even better for both this time around.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>I hope i did not jump any guns KFS / Flayra</b>
Comments
Cheap, cost-effective, less time consuming process that will work. More pro's for the NS team than those who are "buying" the levels.
Although I thought as part of Valve's licensing, policies etc. you couldn't sell levels for commercial use?
Cheap, cost-effective, less time consuming process that will work. More pro's for the NS team than those who are "buying" the levels.
Although I thought as part of Valve's licensing, policies etc. you couldn't sell levels for commercial use? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If he sees this, I'm sure he'll speak for himself, but last I knew KFS had started working for Gearbox, he did work for Raven for a while (couple years?) though. Ken Banks also works/worked for Raven.
In this case would UWE make 'top-up' payments for updates to the map made by the original mapper?
---
</li><li>How do you control the rate of progress on the maps and making sure they're ready and in a balanced and playable state to meet both internal and published deadlines? If you 'employ' freelance mappers what guarantee do you have that they will hit deadlines? What sort of vetting procedure can be used to make sure only committed individuals are used? Also, how would this sort of idea (with all the unpredictability and lack of control assiciated with it) sit with NS2's angel investors?</li></ol>
<!--quoteo(post=1626337:date=May 12 2007, 04:04 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ May 12 2007, 04:04 PM) [snapback]1626337[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Although I thought as part of Valve's licensing, policies etc. you couldn't sell levels for commercial use?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->There's probably an easy way around that, especially since they'd be given an NS2 build to playtest on while working on the map. Perhaps signing a contract in addition to some sort of donation to UWE which is then returned to their bank account, only under the assumption it is an initial paycheck from UWE, qualifying anyone working on an NS2 map as an employee of UWE and therefore able to use Valve tech for commercial purposes for the duration of said contract if only for work done for NS2. - Or something.
I imagine there will be some <i>amazing</i> maps for NS2! (Plus a ton of extra custom maps that didn't quite make the cut!)
I'd imagine that the creators would get payed once the game goes gold, encouraging them to continue maintaining it until the first release at least. After that, UWE will own the map and if the mapper can't fix it for future versions (would be curious to see how the pay structure works there though if they do continue to work on it), then the internal guys can maintain it. Style conflicts can be overcome so long as the source work isn't a complete mess to work with.
Really, this should be exactly the same as NS1 was the first time around, except that the mapper will get a cheque at the end instead.
And as far as Valve's liscencing goes, I believe that applies to using Valves content: ie, textures, models, sprites, sounds, whatever. If mappers used strictly UWE's material (which I'm sure they'll have a ton of <i>again</i>), it shouldn't be a problem (and it's likely going to be a strict requirement if you want to have it "official".) Based on my understanding of how the liscense works. (example: I'd bet ns_hera couldn't be sold because it uses valve's rock textures outside.)
Also note that UWE has boughten a developer liscence thingamajig for NS2 and as such, the tools and engine and all the legalize to use them is semi-sorted out. I wouldn't worry about it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
only saw this from main forum page
Yesterday, 11:32 PM
In: NS2TR & Community maps ...
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad-fix.gif" />
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#666666--><span style="color:#666666"><!--/coloro-->*shakes fist at a random sky texture*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
and i just confirmed that yes, you can port .map's from HL1 to HL2. You'd have to retexture everything, and make sure it was error free beforehand, but the brushwork would live. IMO proportions are about 80% of the work/trouble behind mapping, so that would be a huge chunk of work being saved. Assuming that player sizes are kept in NS2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Max
To answer some questions: Licensing is not an issue since we are developing a game using the Source engine, not building a mod off of Half-Life. We're planning on paying for maps up front and not waiting until the game ships. We haven't figured out the details yet though.
Max
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks max, many of us will be wating (even if its still a few months away) for the NS2TR <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
So it seems silly getting anything serious down, but I do agree we can (as some already have) begin work on style and lighting tests.
If there's many mappers out there like me, there's a lot of catching up to do to learn the Source engine! (Hell, I think I'm just figuring this generation out finally...) One of these day's I'll have to poke around in Hammer 4... I would love to at least have an also-ran ready...
They should make seige maps a seprate gameplay mode...Im gonna go work on one for NS2!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fear for NS2 if people with horrible spelling are making horrible maps for such a horrible game mode.
Revolving door + physics = win! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't think it's not tempting (besides it being a remake of a remake of a tweaked remake), this time it could really be a good oportunity for balancing bast since I can start from scratch and people would give me one thousand times less ish for it.
I need to practice Source a bit, though. It's been quite a while and I haven't done anything "good" with engine yet.
NS2 has the potential to be the best game ever made <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> Lets just get on with the damn development <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Source is ridiculous. I began mapping on Source, so perhaps it was because I was fully open-minded right from the get-go (since HL1 is SO restrictive), but I realized that you can do almost anything in source. The trigger systems are phenomenal, and there are some graphics options that add SO much (displacements and props, mostly).
NS2 has the potential to be the best game ever made <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> Lets just get on with the damn development <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am confused as to why you find Source ridiculous? The points you made and apparently being 'open minded' makes it seems like you find Source completely the opposite; amazing even?
Before i spent the last two years doing only HL1 NS mapping, i was working on a huge CSS map, cs_abscond. Its about 50% complete, but i had a fully functional Shotgun-Breachable door (could ONLY be blasted open from one side via shotty, nothing else... the other side had a lock that needed +using), an insane security system with laser tripwires, one way doors, and security cameras, AND an entire helicopter extraction sequence on a rooftop (the heli would actually come in, land, wait for you and the hosties, then take off with you in it), the helipad of which ALSO had c4 underneath it with a fuse running all along the boxes of the roof, which the T's could shoot off to destroy the pad, preventative or to actually stop the escaping hosties/CTs.
BOOYA SOURCE.
That out of the way, it sound like an awesome idea.
I can see a small issue with some things, but let's face it, there's quite a few guys that really really love this stuff. So, they'll get it done.
Besides, if there's awesome mappers, they can just get rehired for improvements and stuff. That's usually what happens to the maps now, people submit, and then with the feedback they make modifications. Then, if they don't keep it up to date, someone else might take over (with permission).
It would be kinda cool to have a convention or something where people bring their maps and other mappers/dev/players come, test them out, and throw ideas back and forth on the maps. It would be really cool to get advice and real time feedback from the community and then people can discuss and fiddle with things right there. Sure we kinda have the same thing here, and I'm sure the mappers have their own test teams, but it might be fun to bring them all together and really work off each other.
There're so many unknowns at the moment:<ul><li><b>Player sizes</b> (possibly the same or at an equal ratio to NS)</li><li><b>Player speeds</b> (possibly the same or at an equal ratio to NS)</li><li><b>New weapons and behaviours</b> (flamethrower, anyone?)</li><li><b>New Alien classes and behaviours</b> (it could happen)</li><li><b>Map sizes</b> (same as NS or can they be scaled up a bit?)</li><li><b>How dynamic infestation will work</b> (merely eye candy or will it have restrictive properties for the Marine side and positive effects on the Alien team?)</li><li><b>What playercount to design for</b> (6v6-8v8 or will NS2 have larger team sizes? Will it be balanced to scale well for small maps?)</li><li><b>What game modes there will be?</b> (combat as well as classic?)</li><li><b>What limitations will there be (if any?) on map resources?</b> (i.e. will there be anything similar to an entity count?)</li></ul>-the list goes on...
So it seems silly getting anything serious down, but I do agree we can (as some already have) begin work on style and lighting tests.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I will add another one to that list - you've not seen what the static mesh library looks like. I'm going on the assumption that NSTR2 will include some because they are almost as important as textures nowadays. Unless you are talented enough to create all your own content its probably unwise to start any major projects you will end up scrapping because your design just doesn't go well with the default meshes.