Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1629944:date=May 29 2007, 10:14 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ May 29 2007, 10:14 PM) [snapback]1629944[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> "lol foreigners speak silly! Those silly, silly foreign people who live in foreign countries that are not my country!" <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Get a grip, dude. The show itself is Japanese... that's why the audience is laughing... because they can relate. It was subbed by a guy who went to Japan and recorded the show.
So..<!--QuoteBegin-fixed+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fixed)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"lol natives speak foreign languages silly! Those silly, silly native people who live in this country and speak languages from outside their country!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Name of show -fixed-: "How-Many-Jap-girls-can-I-pick-up-by-trying-to-impress-them-with-my-uber-Western-English-culture-while-despertaly trying-to-play-off-the-post-WW2-era-stereotype-that-all-Japanese-women-can-be-easily-wooed-(and/or-subsequently-raped-willingly)- by-Western-white-males-when-infact-I-am-sadly-mistaken-and-am-probably-nothing-more-than-a-desperate-Weeabo -who-is-pathetically-failing-at-what-is-clearly-an-unorignal-device-plot."
... that being said, Fat-Asian-Man-in-poncho was fuuuunnnyy.
I think their English is better than my Japanese, French or Russian. (And most people would laugh at me attempting to communicate via any of the three.)
also, google claims that cabews said "My Japanese moth [ge] going back and forth the [ri] increase it is" machine translation for the win!
<!--quoteo(post=1629976:date=May 30 2007, 04:42 AM:name=Black_Mage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black_Mage @ May 30 2007, 04:42 AM) [snapback]1629976[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I think their English is better than my Japanese, French or Russian. (And most people would laugh at me attempting to communicate via any of the three.)
also, google claims that cabews said "My Japanese moth [ge] going back and forth the [ri] increase it is" machine translation for the win! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> google is most likely getting screwed up by the fact that caboose is using hirigana for something that should contain a bunch of kanji... It's pretty unusual for a native speaker to write わたしの (a sentence fragment which establishes the subject of the sentence being the speaker and indicates he/she possesses the object).
Overall, even when written properly Japanese is an ugly language to machine translate, because it's highly contextual.
Well, I guess his favourite pickup line is: Gotta Catch Them All!. After that he pulls down his pants <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1629995:date=May 30 2007, 07:07 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ May 30 2007, 07:07 AM) [snapback]1629995[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> google is most likely getting screwed up by the fact that caboose is using hirigana for something that should contain a bunch of kanji... It's pretty unusual for a native speaker to write わたしの (a sentence fragment which establishes the subject of the sentence being the speaker and indicates he/she possesses the object).
Overall, even when written properly Japanese is an ugly language to machine translate, because it's highly contextual. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, I tried to use only Kanji I knew, which is very few. I only know the Kanji for Japan really.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
The japanese in general are aware of the problems they have pronouncing certain phonics which are not part of their normal verbal skills. Just like they have many sounds that we rarely pronounce correctly without proper training. Everytime they hear "toe-key-oh" ( among many others ) it makes them cringe at our brutal gaijin pronunciation. We used to have fun with our japanese teacher swapping tongue twisters that would be difficult for us to pronounce. "Release the rubbery umbrella" was one of them.. I can't remember the rest.
The same thing happens in Thailand. They have many words that start with 'ng' which is alien to spoken English, but very common in spoken Irish, so I had no problem pronouncing those words whereas most other English speakers did.
AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
edited May 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1630114:date=May 30 2007, 11:09 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ May 30 2007, 11:09 PM) [snapback]1630114[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> He looks a little like Hayden Christensen. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only, hes friendlier outwards and proportionally more angry inside. also, lol at the first video at 2:47; "Im like, "that's wierd", since Iam not pikachu."
I'm only on the second video but I'm laughing so hard XD. I'm sure I would sound just as ridiculous trying to speak in a different language.
<!--quoteo(post=1629941:date=May 30 2007, 01:08 AM:name=Liku)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liku @ May 30 2007, 01:08 AM) [snapback]1629941[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I don't think the Japanese should learn English in school, they don't seem to grasp any of it... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's probably because they don't have to use it on a regular basis. It's the same reason I was never good at Spanish. I never had to use it outside of class.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited May 2007
The problems are much more fundamental than learning. By the age of about 3-4 you have developed your larynx and it is very very difficult to develop the ability to pronounce sounds you have not used while developing your vocal chords. This works both ways, it is difficult to pronounce some japanese sounds correctly if it isn't your mother tongue. Most spoken languages consist of about 80-120 sounds with minor variations on them. Japanese is a very small language in terms of the sounds used. There are 78 specific sounds in Japanese and they have a very strict phonetic structure, so they have problems pronouncing many of the basic sounds in English. This is also why, for example, a large part of learning spoken French is developing the proper pronounciation. Ever try to speak Hebrew? I guarantee that all of you who look down on the Japanese pronunciation of would sound just as ridiculous speaking a Celtic, Slavik or Nordic language. Ever tried to speak a tonal language like Thai or Mandarin? In these languages the stress of tone on a vowel sounds changes the direct meaning.
The other problem Japanese people have is that their language is really efficient and to the point. When speaking Japanese you tend to establish subject and object early in the conversation and then proceed with a sequence of sentence fragments about the subject and object. This is perfectly correct Japanese grammar. They develop their language skills that are different to those of us who speak the overly verbose Latin and Germanic languages.
And finally, the cross cultural fertalisation that occurs when languages are absorbed into another culture is something natural and has been happening for millennia . They are entitled to adopt whatever flavour of English they want and they are entitled to transmogrify it into whatever suits their cultural expression. Sure it is funny, and worth a giggle, but they are no better or worse than you or me for it.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
AKA they screw up English and it's funny. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guarantee that all of you who look down on the Japanese pronunciation of would sound just as ridiculous speaking a Celtic, Slavik or Nordic language.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Probably, but who's fascinated with them and use them all over advertisements?
The larynx development note was interesting though, never thought of that.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1630261:date=May 31 2007, 02:44 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ May 31 2007, 02:44 AM) [snapback]1630261[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> The problems are much more fundamental than learning. By the age of about 3-4 you have developed your larynx and it is very very difficult to develop the ability to pronounce sounds you have not used while developing your vocal chords. This works both ways, it is difficult to pronounce some japanese sounds correctly if it isn't your mother tongue. Most spoken languages consist of about 80-120 sounds with minor variations on them. Japanese is a very small language in terms of the sounds used. There are 78 specific sounds in Japanese and they have a very strict phonetic structure, so they have problems pronouncing many of the basic sounds in English. This is also why, for example, a large part of learning spoken French is developing the proper pronounciation. Ever try to speak Hebrew? I guarantee that<!--coloro:#ff0000--><span style="color:#ff0000"><!--/coloro--><b><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> all of you who look down on the Japanese pronunciation<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> of would sound just as ridiculous speaking a Celtic, Slavik or Nordic language. Ever tried to speak a tonal language like Thai or Mandarin? In these languages the stress of tone on a vowel sounds changes the direct meaning.
The other problem Japanese people have is that their language is really efficient and to the point. When speaking Japanese you tend to establish subject and object early in the conversation and then proceed with a sequence of sentence fragments about the subject and object. This is perfectly correct Japanese grammar. They develop their language skills that are different to those of us who speak the overly verbose Latin and Germanic languages.
And finally, the cross cultural fertalisation that occurs when languages are absorbed into another culture is something natural and has been happening for millennia . They are entitled to adopt whatever flavour of English they want and they are entitled to transmogrify it into whatever suits their cultural expression. Sure it is funny, and worth a giggle, but they are no better or worse than you or me for it.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who's looking down on anybody? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1630548:date=Jun 1 2007, 09:45 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Jun 1 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]1630548[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The comment wasn't directed at you Zig. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, hypothetical insults are fun then, aren't they?
I'm not quite sure where you're getting this larynx stuff; anytime you start encountering a new sound that you need to make it's going to take practice, but you can easily learn to make a new sound within a year if you've got the opportunity to practice with someone/people that can correct you.
Generally school-acquired language skills are really bad. Real world application is the only means you'll find of getting rid of what you don't need and finding what you do. Also, language problems with pronunciation are often on a personal basis, such as finding the Spanish rolling R or the Polish equivalent of щ's double sh/ch sound (they don't use cyrillic, but I also don't ever remember their alphabet), the Russian palatized sounds, the English TH, or the German CH.
It's funny when Japanese can't speak English properly, it's funny when English can't speak Japanese properly (feel free to interchange any two languages in there).
Comments
Ooh, I just thought, I'm going to try to write that previous sentence...
わたしの日本語ガげんきじゃりません
But that's about as far as I got, and it took me a few minutes... And the third kanji is probably wrong...
Get a grip, dude. The show itself is Japanese... that's why the audience is laughing... because they can relate. It was subbed by a guy who went to Japan and recorded the show.
So..<!--QuoteBegin-fixed+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fixed)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"lol natives speak foreign languages silly! Those silly, silly native people who live in this country and speak languages from outside their country!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"How-Many-Jap-girls-can-I-pick-up-by-trying-to-impress-them-with-my-uber-Western-English-culture-while-despertaly trying-to-play-off-the-post-WW2-era-stereotype-that-all-Japanese-women-can-be-easily-wooed-(and/or-subsequently-raped-willingly)- by-Western-white-males-when-infact-I-am-sadly-mistaken-and-am-probably-nothing-more-than-a-desperate-Weeabo -who-is-pathetically-failing-at-what-is-clearly-an-unorignal-device-plot."
... that being said, Fat-Asian-Man-in-poncho was fuuuunnnyy.
also, google claims that cabews said "My Japanese moth [ge] going back and forth the [ri] increase it is"
machine translation for the win!
I think their English is better than my Japanese, French or Russian. (And most people would laugh at me attempting to communicate via any of the three.)
also, google claims that cabews said "My Japanese moth [ge] going back and forth the [ri] increase it is"
machine translation for the win!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
google is most likely getting screwed up by the fact that caboose is using hirigana for something that should contain a bunch of kanji... It's pretty unusual for a native speaker to write わたしの (a sentence fragment which establishes the subject of the sentence being the speaker and indicates he/she possesses the object).
Overall, even when written properly Japanese is an ugly language to machine translate, because it's highly contextual.
Well, I guess his favourite pickup line is: Gotta Catch Them All!. After that he pulls down his pants <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
google is most likely getting screwed up by the fact that caboose is using hirigana for something that should contain a bunch of kanji... It's pretty unusual for a native speaker to write わたしの (a sentence fragment which establishes the subject of the sentence being the speaker and indicates he/she possesses the object).
Overall, even when written properly Japanese is an ugly language to machine translate, because it's highly contextual.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, I tried to use only Kanji I knew, which is very few. I only know the Kanji for Japan really.
The same thing happens in Thailand. They have many words that start with 'ng' which is alien to spoken English, but very common in spoken Irish, so I had no problem pronouncing those words whereas most other English speakers did.
"Hi and gooday, my name is ?? (Dan doven?) and todays word is, DEEN CHUTSAARRA ARRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
He looks a little like Hayden Christensen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only, hes friendlier outwards and proportionally more angry inside.
also, lol at the first video at 2:47;
"Im like, "that's wierd", since Iam not pikachu."
<!--quoteo(post=1629941:date=May 30 2007, 01:08 AM:name=Liku)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liku @ May 30 2007, 01:08 AM) [snapback]1629941[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I don't think the Japanese should learn English in school, they don't seem to grasp any of it...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's probably because they don't have to use it on a regular basis. It's the same reason I was never good at Spanish. I never had to use it outside of class.
The other problem Japanese people have is that their language is really efficient and to the point. When speaking Japanese you tend to establish subject and object early in the conversation and then proceed with a sequence of sentence fragments about the subject and object. This is perfectly correct Japanese grammar. They develop their language skills that are different to those of us who speak the overly verbose Latin and Germanic languages.
And finally, the cross cultural fertalisation that occurs when languages are absorbed into another culture is something natural and has been happening for millennia . They are entitled to adopt whatever flavour of English they want and they are entitled to transmogrify it into whatever suits their cultural expression. Sure it is funny, and worth a giggle, but they are no better or worse than you or me for it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guarantee that all of you who look down on the Japanese pronunciation of would sound just as ridiculous speaking a Celtic, Slavik or Nordic language.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably, but who's fascinated with them and use them all over advertisements?
The larynx development note was interesting though, never thought of that.
Watashi wa mimi! Which, is, like, I is Ear or something.
The other problem Japanese people have is that their language is really efficient and to the point. When speaking Japanese you tend to establish subject and object early in the conversation and then proceed with a sequence of sentence fragments about the subject and object. This is perfectly correct Japanese grammar. They develop their language skills that are different to those of us who speak the overly verbose Latin and Germanic languages.
And finally, the cross cultural fertalisation that occurs when languages are absorbed into another culture is something natural and has been happening for millennia . They are entitled to adopt whatever flavour of English they want and they are entitled to transmogrify it into whatever suits their cultural expression. Sure it is funny, and worth a giggle, but they are no better or worse than you or me for it.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who's looking down on anybody? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
The comment wasn't directed at you Zig.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, hypothetical insults are fun then, aren't they?
I'm not quite sure where you're getting this larynx stuff; anytime you start encountering a new sound that you need to make it's going to take practice, but you can easily learn to make a new sound within a year if you've got the opportunity to practice with someone/people that can correct you.
Generally school-acquired language skills are really bad. Real world application is the only means you'll find of getting rid of what you don't need and finding what you do. Also, language problems with pronunciation are often on a personal basis, such as finding the Spanish rolling R or the Polish equivalent of щ's double sh/ch sound (they don't use cyrillic, but I also don't ever remember their alphabet), the Russian palatized sounds, the English TH, or the German CH.
It's funny when Japanese can't speak English properly, it's funny when English can't speak Japanese properly (feel free to interchange any two languages in there).