<!--quoteo(post=1630288:date=May 31 2007, 02:36 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ May 31 2007, 02:36 PM) [snapback]1630288[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Oh, Sub_zer0, you never cease to amuse me! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So does your face but I don't type a comment with every thing wrong with it i'd be here all day. Now stop with the bitterness ok?
And you saw a big daddy get killed in a trailer he gets pushed over a balcony. You can also become a big daddy I hear I'm guessing it probably means more in role than shape. They are really really hard to kill though.
You come upon them and their protectors, the Big Daddy. If you really want to, you can attack the Big Daddy, thus leaving the Little Sisters defenseless. Now you have two choices; you can help them out (what you would do if you're nice, and the Big Daddy attacked YOU by accident or something) and get a little bit of Adam, or you can "harvest" then and get a whole lot of Adam.
If you harvest them, your character picks up the little girl and moves his hand offscreen. There are some disturbing noises and when the hand comes back it's holding lots of Adam and the little girl's gone.
There's another layer of morality here because two people are constantly talking to you throughout the game. One man has a wife and kids trapped inside the city, and he's begging you to harvest the Little Sisters to become powerful enough to save his family. The other is a former Nazi scientists who created the Little Sisters (genetic engineering) and she's begging you not to hurt her creations. So you can listen to the nice man who wants you to save his family and kill the little girls, or you can listen to the former Nazi scientist who has created genetic nigthmares and <i>not</i> kill the litte girls.
<!--quoteo(post=1630745:date=Jun 2 2007, 10:07 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 2 2007, 10:07 AM) [snapback]1630745[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Here's how Little Sisters work:
You come upon them and their protectors, the Big Daddy. If you really want to, you can attack the Big Daddy, thus leaving the Little Sisters defenseless. Now you have two choices; you can help them out (what you would do if you're nice, and the Big Daddy attacked YOU by accident or something) and get a little bit of Adam, or you can "harvest" then and get a whole lot of Adam.
If you harvest them, your character picks up the little girl and moves his hand offscreen. There are some disturbing noises and when the hand comes back it's holding lots of Adam and the little girl's gone.
There's another layer of morality here because two people are constantly talking to you throughout the game. One man has a wife and kids trapped inside the city, and he's begging you to harvest the Little Sisters to become powerful enough to save his family. The other is a former Nazi scientists who created the Little Sisters (genetic engineering) and she's begging you not to hurt her creations. So you can listen to the nice man who wants you to save his family and kill the little girls, or you can listen to the former Nazi scientist who has created genetic nigthmares and <i>not</i> kill the litte girls. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1630829:date=Jun 2 2007, 02:55 PM:name=Abra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Abra @ Jun 2 2007, 02:55 PM) [snapback]1630829[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The game boiled down to the bones: saving little girls for nazi scientist or killing said girls for family dad.
Well, that's only part of it. The Little Sisters are a big source of Adam, but a whole lot of the game is focused on trying to escape the underwater city, trying to survive yourself, dealing with the many enemies in the city, and dealing with the main villian, who is also periodically in contact with you, taunting you (or something). You also come across audio logs from former inhabitants of the city that explain more of the story, and stuff like taht.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1630745:date=Jun 2 2007, 09:07 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 2 2007, 09:07 AM) [snapback]1630745[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If you harvest them, your character picks up the little girl and moves his hand offscreen. There are some disturbing noises and when the hand comes back it's holding lots of Adam and the little girl's gone. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like to see myself reaping the bounty, thanks.
So you can't kill the Little Sisters outright. Big deal.
I mean, don't get me wrong. It's unrealistic. If I turn my flamethrower on one, I would except Child Barbeque. They'll need to either cook up some (probably far-fetched) explanation as to why you can't harm them, or just leave it unexplained (kinda like HL2, where you could empty an entire magazine into the face of a friendly without it impressing (or hurting) them at all).
But it doesn't matter, really. Gameplay wise, you'd either go the good boy route (which involves no Kiddie Carnage) or the bad boy route, where harvesting would be the much smarter decision. There wouldn't really be any point to outright killing them, other than for your personal amusement, which is... well, kinda questionable. Kinda unsettling.
I can't blame Irrational Games for not going for maximum shock value here. They want to make a game, preferably one that doesn't get labeled Child Slaughter Simulator by a sensationalist news media.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1630925:date=Jun 3 2007, 07:24 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Jun 3 2007, 07:24 AM) [snapback]1630925[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> So you can't kill the Little Sisters outright. Big deal.
I mean, don't get me wrong. It's unrealistic. If I turn my flamethrower on one, I would except Child Barbeque. They'll need to either cook up some (probably far-fetched) explanation as to why you can't harm them, or just leave it unexplained (kinda like HL2, where you could empty an entire magazine into the face of a friendly without it impressing (or hurting) them at all).
But it doesn't matter, really. Gameplay wise, you'd either go the good boy route (which involves no Kiddie Carnage) or the bad boy route, where harvesting would be the much smarter decision. There wouldn't really be any point to outright killing them, other than for your personal amusement, which is... well, kinda questionable. Kinda unsettling.
I can't blame Irrational Games for not going for maximum shock value here. They want to make a game, preferably one that doesn't get labeled Child Slaughter Simulator by a sensationalist news media. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There are many ways in which being able to shoot them would matter gameplay wise. You could kill them before you take on the big daddy, thus preventing them from escaping, for example.
You would have to watch where you shoot, lest they get caught in the crossfire if you were planning on keeping them alive. This is actually the main reason given for the decision, because apparently the AI is too stupid to keep them out of harm's way.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
Movie looked.. kinda boring, no story elements, no game mechanic that differentiated it from the countless of other FPS'es? About being able to kill children, is it really any different than killing adults (in video games)? It's just hypocrisy.
If you kill them you probably can't harvest the Adam (they're living, breathing Adam converters/processors/receptacles) so there would be no point in preventing them from escaping, and from what I've heard the 3-way, even 4-way battles in the game send so many bullets flying in so many directions that the kid would be toast no matter what you did. Keep in mind you have Splicers, the Big Daddy, explosives, security turrets, and security bots all firing at each other. That alone would waste the Little Sisters alot even if you wanted to keep them alive (One of the devs mentioned that a Little Sister got mowed down during the E3 demo on accident back when they could still die from bullets). Once you add the player in to the mix, that girl would be toast.
And Epidemic, I don't know quite how you determined that, but uh, you're wrong, basically.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1630935:date=Jun 3 2007, 08:03 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 3 2007, 08:03 AM) [snapback]1630935[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If you kill them you probably can't harvest the Adam (they're living, breathing Adam converters/processors/receptacles) so there would be no point in preventing them from escaping, and from what I've heard the 3-way, even 4-way battles in the game send so many bullets flying in so many directions that the kid would be toast no matter what you did. Keep in mind you have Splicers, the Big Daddy, explosives, security turrets, and security bots all firing at each other. That alone would waste the Little Sisters alot even if you wanted to keep them alive (One of the devs mentioned that a Little Sister got mowed down during the E3 demo on accident back when they could still die from bullets). Once you add the player in to the mix, that girl would be toast.
And Epidemic, I don't know quite how you determined that, but uh, you're wrong, basically. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So what you're saying is that the processed adam inside them magically disappears when they die? Ok.
Well it's like if you want to make an organ transplant from an unwilling donor. You can't just shoot him in the head, drag him back to the hospital, and pop out his heart. He's got to be alive up until you take the heart out at which point you can let him die. The girls are biological stewards of the Adam, not just containers. It's integrated in to their systems since they're genetically designed to harvest and process it. If you could just carry Adam around in a jar nobody would need these little girls to take syringes, plunge it in to the dead bodies, and then inject it in to themselves to turn it in to usable Adam.
AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
<!--quoteo(post=1630830:date=Jun 3 2007, 12:05 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 3 2007, 12:05 AM) [snapback]1630830[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Well, that's only part of it. The Little Sisters are a big source of Adam, but a whole lot of the game is focused on trying to escape the underwater city, trying to survive yourself, dealing with the many enemies in the city, and dealing with the main villian, who is also periodically in contact with you, taunting you (or something). You also come across audio logs from former inhabitants of the city that explain more of the story, and stuff like taht. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If only the audio logs are half as good as the ones in Doom 3, I'm sold. Jesus, the one log in which a doctor spoke about the guy who cut his tounge in half - awesome!
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1630950:date=Jun 3 2007, 09:14 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 3 2007, 09:14 AM) [snapback]1630950[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Well it's like if you want to make an organ transplant from an unwilling donor. You can't just shoot him in the head, drag him back to the hospital, and pop out his heart. He's got to be alive up until you take the heart out at which point you can let him die. The girls are biological stewards of the Adam, not just containers. It's integrated in to their systems since they're genetically designed to harvest and process it. If you could just carry Adam around in a jar nobody would need these little girls to take syringes, plunge it in to the dead bodies, and then inject it in to themselves to turn it in to usable Adam. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Adam isn't an organ, it's a substance which <i>can</i> be carried around in jars, or found on the floor, in crates, on corpses, in cash registers, in vending machines...
If only the audio logs are half as good as the ones in Doom 3, I'm sold. Jesus, the one log in which a doctor spoke about the guy who cut his tounge in half - awesome! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you liked that particular part of Doom 3, you'll love the System Shock series. You should get System Shock 2 right now.
I'm going on a TTLG rampage. I got Thief 1 and 2, and I need to screw up my patience (and courage, because creepy/slow games make me edgy as hell) to plow through both, then SS1 and/or 2. Then beat Thief 3, cuz despite what people said, I really enjoyed how it played.
Speaking of Thief 1, when I hit my key bound to "run" Garret just kind of hobbles along at a slightly faster pace then sneaking. Is something wrong, or is that running in the Thief 1/2 universe?
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
edited June 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1631107:date=Jun 4 2007, 03:32 AM:name=Testament)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Testament @ Jun 4 2007, 03:32 AM) [snapback]1631107[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'm going on a TTLG rampage. I got Thief 1 and 2, and I need to screw up my patience (and courage, because creepy/slow games make me edgy as hell) to plow through both, then SS1 and/or 2. Then beat Thief 3, cuz despite what people said, I really enjoyed how it played.
Speaking of Thief 1, when I hit my key bound to "run" Garret just kind of hobbles along at a slightly faster pace then sneaking. Is something wrong, or is that running in the Thief 1/2 universe? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The running speed in Thief is pretty reasonable. Are you sure you're not pressing "Walk forward"? There are 2 separate keys for moving forward for some reason, one for walking and one for running. It's best to use "Run forward" and bind shift to "Hold for walk", just like every other game.
I thought that's what I was doing, but maybe something overlapped somewhere. I'm thinking of it more as a sprint than a jog, and it seems somewhere between a creep and a jog right now.
AM I BEING VAGUE ENOUGH YET?
Ugh. No wonder Thief was so obnoxious for me, and it's taken me 40 minutes to get partway through the first mission. My bindings didn't save, so I was "walking" the entire time, then when I hit walk I was REALLY creeping along. Like, one footstep every 3-4 seconds creeping along. Thanks for the tip, Pulse. Time to restart and actually have fun.
Comments
Oh, Sub_zer0, you never cease to amuse me!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So does your face but I don't type a comment with every thing wrong with it i'd be here all day. Now stop with the bitterness ok?
And you saw a big daddy get killed in a trailer he gets pushed over a balcony.
You can also become a big daddy I hear I'm guessing it probably means more in role than shape.
They are really really hard to kill though.
You come upon them and their protectors, the Big Daddy. If you really want to, you can attack the Big Daddy, thus leaving the Little Sisters defenseless. Now you have two choices; you can help them out (what you would do if you're nice, and the Big Daddy attacked YOU by accident or something) and get a little bit of Adam, or you can "harvest" then and get a whole lot of Adam.
If you harvest them, your character picks up the little girl and moves his hand offscreen. There are some disturbing noises and when the hand comes back it's holding lots of Adam and the little girl's gone.
There's another layer of morality here because two people are constantly talking to you throughout the game. One man has a wife and kids trapped inside the city, and he's begging you to harvest the Little Sisters to become powerful enough to save his family. The other is a former Nazi scientists who created the Little Sisters (genetic engineering) and she's begging you not to hurt her creations. So you can listen to the nice man who wants you to save his family and kill the little girls, or you can listen to the former Nazi scientist who has created genetic nigthmares and <i>not</i> kill the litte girls.
Here's how Little Sisters work:
You come upon them and their protectors, the Big Daddy. If you really want to, you can attack the Big Daddy, thus leaving the Little Sisters defenseless. Now you have two choices; you can help them out (what you would do if you're nice, and the Big Daddy attacked YOU by accident or something) and get a little bit of Adam, or you can "harvest" then and get a whole lot of Adam.
If you harvest them, your character picks up the little girl and moves his hand offscreen. There are some disturbing noises and when the hand comes back it's holding lots of Adam and the little girl's gone.
There's another layer of morality here because two people are constantly talking to you throughout the game. One man has a wife and kids trapped inside the city, and he's begging you to harvest the Little Sisters to become powerful enough to save his family. The other is a former Nazi scientists who created the Little Sisters (genetic engineering) and she's begging you not to hurt her creations. So you can listen to the nice man who wants you to save his family and kill the little girls, or you can listen to the former Nazi scientist who has created genetic nigthmares and <i>not</i> kill the litte girls.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is incredibly disturbing.
That is incredibly disturbing.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's designed to get you in the heart and in your head, as opposed to the 99% of first person shooters that are just brainless fragfests.
Interesting.
The game boiled down to the bones: saving little girls for nazi scientist or killing said girls for family dad.
Interesting.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, that's only part of it. The Little Sisters are a big source of Adam, but a whole lot of the game is focused on trying to escape the underwater city, trying to survive yourself, dealing with the many enemies in the city, and dealing with the main villian, who is also periodically in contact with you, taunting you (or something). You also come across audio logs from former inhabitants of the city that explain more of the story, and stuff like taht.
If you harvest them, your character picks up the little girl and moves his hand offscreen. There are some disturbing noises and when the hand comes back it's holding lots of Adam and the little girl's gone.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to see myself reaping the bounty, thanks.
I mean, don't get me wrong. It's unrealistic. If I turn my flamethrower on one, I would except Child Barbeque. They'll need to either cook up some (probably far-fetched) explanation as to why you can't harm them, or just leave it unexplained (kinda like HL2, where you could empty an entire magazine into the face of a friendly without it impressing (or hurting) them at all).
But it doesn't matter, really. Gameplay wise, you'd either go the good boy route (which involves no Kiddie Carnage) or the bad boy route, where harvesting would be the much smarter decision. There wouldn't really be any point to outright killing them, other than for your personal amusement, which is... well, kinda questionable. Kinda unsettling.
I can't blame Irrational Games for not going for maximum shock value here. They want to make a game, preferably one that doesn't get labeled Child Slaughter Simulator by a sensationalist news media.
So you can't kill the Little Sisters outright. Big deal.
I mean, don't get me wrong. It's unrealistic. If I turn my flamethrower on one, I would except Child Barbeque. They'll need to either cook up some (probably far-fetched) explanation as to why you can't harm them, or just leave it unexplained (kinda like HL2, where you could empty an entire magazine into the face of a friendly without it impressing (or hurting) them at all).
But it doesn't matter, really. Gameplay wise, you'd either go the good boy route (which involves no Kiddie Carnage) or the bad boy route, where harvesting would be the much smarter decision. There wouldn't really be any point to outright killing them, other than for your personal amusement, which is... well, kinda questionable. Kinda unsettling.
I can't blame Irrational Games for not going for maximum shock value here. They want to make a game, preferably one that doesn't get labeled Child Slaughter Simulator by a sensationalist news media.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are many ways in which being able to shoot them would matter gameplay wise. You could kill them before you take on the big daddy, thus preventing them from escaping, for example.
You would have to watch where you shoot, lest they get caught in the crossfire if you were planning on keeping them alive. This is actually the main reason given for the decision, because apparently the AI is too stupid to keep them out of harm's way.
About being able to kill children, is it really any different than killing adults (in video games)? It's just hypocrisy.
And Epidemic, I don't know quite how you determined that, but uh, you're wrong, basically.
If you kill them you probably can't harvest the Adam (they're living, breathing Adam converters/processors/receptacles) so there would be no point in preventing them from escaping, and from what I've heard the 3-way, even 4-way battles in the game send so many bullets flying in so many directions that the kid would be toast no matter what you did. Keep in mind you have Splicers, the Big Daddy, explosives, security turrets, and security bots all firing at each other. That alone would waste the Little Sisters alot even if you wanted to keep them alive (One of the devs mentioned that a Little Sister got mowed down during the E3 demo on accident back when they could still die from bullets). Once you add the player in to the mix, that girl would be toast.
And Epidemic, I don't know quite how you determined that, but uh, you're wrong, basically.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what you're saying is that the processed adam inside them magically disappears when they die? Ok.
Well, that's only part of it. The Little Sisters are a big source of Adam, but a whole lot of the game is focused on trying to escape the underwater city, trying to survive yourself, dealing with the many enemies in the city, and dealing with the main villian, who is also periodically in contact with you, taunting you (or something). You also come across audio logs from former inhabitants of the city that explain more of the story, and stuff like taht.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
If only the audio logs are half as good as the ones in Doom 3, I'm sold.
Jesus, the one log in which a doctor spoke about the guy who cut his tounge in half - awesome!
Well it's like if you want to make an organ transplant from an unwilling donor. You can't just shoot him in the head, drag him back to the hospital, and pop out his heart. He's got to be alive up until you take the heart out at which point you can let him die. The girls are biological stewards of the Adam, not just containers. It's integrated in to their systems since they're genetically designed to harvest and process it. If you could just carry Adam around in a jar nobody would need these little girls to take syringes, plunge it in to the dead bodies, and then inject it in to themselves to turn it in to usable Adam.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adam isn't an organ, it's a substance which <i>can</i> be carried around in jars, or found on the floor, in crates, on corpses, in cash registers, in vending machines...
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
If only the audio logs are half as good as the ones in Doom 3, I'm sold.
Jesus, the one log in which a doctor spoke about the guy who cut his tounge in half - awesome!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you liked that particular part of Doom 3, you'll love the System Shock series. You should get System Shock 2 right now.
Speaking of Thief 1, when I hit my key bound to "run" Garret just kind of hobbles along at a slightly faster pace then sneaking. Is something wrong, or is that running in the Thief 1/2 universe?
I'm going on a TTLG rampage. I got Thief 1 and 2, and I need to screw up my patience (and courage, because creepy/slow games make me edgy as hell) to plow through both, then SS1 and/or 2. Then beat Thief 3, cuz despite what people said, I really enjoyed how it played.
Speaking of Thief 1, when I hit my key bound to "run" Garret just kind of hobbles along at a slightly faster pace then sneaking. Is something wrong, or is that running in the Thief 1/2 universe?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The running speed in Thief is pretty reasonable. Are you sure you're not pressing "Walk forward"? There are 2 separate keys for moving forward for some reason, one for walking and one for running. It's best to use "Run forward" and bind shift to "Hold for walk", just like every other game.
AM I BEING VAGUE ENOUGH YET?
Ugh. No wonder Thief was so obnoxious for me, and it's taken me 40 minutes to get partway through the first mission. My bindings didn't save, so I was "walking" the entire time, then when I hit walk I was REALLY creeping along. Like, one footstep every 3-4 seconds creeping along. Thanks for the tip, Pulse. Time to restart and actually have fun.