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Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6944Members
Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6944Members
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<div class="IPBDescription">Law forcing Torrentspy to turn over logs</div>I just read a news about <a href="http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070610-bittorrent-site-ordered-to-enable-server-logs-turn-them-over-to-mpaa.html" target="_blank">Torrentspy </a>who was ordered by law to turn over the log of user activities. Torrentspy said they are masking the IPs so they would still comply to their own privacy rules but how long will they be able to keep doing before they are actualy forced to give IPs to ? Who knows.
So if torrent sites are slowly being targeted, then I guess we should expect more torrent sites to have similar faith by the end of the year.
Also expected, less people using torrent sites.
What do you think ?
Also, it always puzzeled me about japanese animations. If they stay in japanese audio, downloaded into America, added sub-titles in English and redistributed in America in torrents. Does it cause a problem then ?
So if torrent sites are slowly being targeted, then I guess we should expect more torrent sites to have similar faith by the end of the year.
Also expected, less people using torrent sites.
What do you think ?
Also, it always puzzeled me about japanese animations. If they stay in japanese audio, downloaded into America, added sub-titles in English and redistributed in America in torrents. Does it cause a problem then ?
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Also, it always puzzeled me about japanese animations. If they stay in japanese audio, downloaded into America, added sub-titles in English and redistributed in America in torrents. Does it cause a problem then ?
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Technically, its still a copyright violation. But you're violating Japanese Copyright law against a Japanese Company, while living in the US, so you're fairly unlikely to actually be targetted by any legal claims. Claims are much easier to make inside your own country, and our MPAA and RIAA just happen to be unusually aggressive in attacking online downloads.
Also, it always puzzeled me about japanese animations. If they stay in japanese audio, downloaded into America, added sub-titles in English and redistributed in America in torrents. Does it cause a problem then ?
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IANAL, however it goes something like this:
You are violating a copyright that, even though it is not an American one, is enforceable to due treaties and other such international agreements (the basically boil down to: we prefer trading with you then blowing you up, so we will respect your laws and you will respect our laws).
However, the Japanese companies tend not to come after fansubers. However American companies have been known to come after fansubers once they buy the rights to produce the show in the US.
There has also been a longstanding tradition amongst fansubers to discontinue any work that has been licensed in their locale.
So downloading the latest ep of Claymore (10 was getting a tad bit to close to tentacle rape at points...) is technically illegal, however the likelihood that any oen will enforce it? close to nill.
BTW, if they Kill torrents (And they wil not do so any time soon), the next P2P system will simply fill the void.
I bet a Swiss tracker would be even more immune, what with the Swiss tradition of neutrality.
But I'm saying it right here, right now. If it wasn't for fansubber, we would still be subjected to more of those horrendous mix-and-match crime against humanity that are Robotech and Voltrons. God bless the interweb.
As others have stated, if torrentspy is forced to do this, I would fully expect to see them moving their servers out of the country and the problem is solved. There is always a place willing to take them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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Well, um, hate to point this out but...
<!--QuoteBegin-The Article+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Article)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The defendants pointed out that they had never had server logs enabled because it wasn't a necessary part of their business operations, <b>and because they believed that privacy laws in the Netherlands—where the TorrentSpy servers are located</b>—prevented them from maintaining and turning over logs. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, corruption. It's not just for Christmas.
;_;
/thread
(Except for porn. But thats mainly because most people like the privacy of the Internet when it comes to consuming pornography.)
Personally I think that if the movie industry would scrap all that crap like 4GB extras, making of etc. and use DVD layers that don't scratch easily and lower the prize for DvDs as well as sell them a bit earlier people would not bother using filesharing to illegally download movies.
(Except for porn. But thats mainly because most people like the privacy of the Internet when it comes to consuming pornography.)
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If I wasn't forced to sit through 3 minutes of unskippable "don't copy this DVD" warnings in about 15 different languages after each episode of Futurama on my DVDs, I'd probably be a lot more sympathetic to these organisations.
Instead of sueing and threatening people they should try to produce actully good movies / music, instead of all the not-good music and boring flicks they keep flooding the market with :/ "our sales has gone down by X the last couple of years, due to piracy that is!" like hell it is, it's due to the dwendling quality of your damn products <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
If I wasn't forced to sit through 3 minutes of unskippable "don't copy this DVD" warnings in about 15 different languages after each episode of Futurama on my DVDs, I'd probably be a lot more sympathetic to these organisations.
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Oh yeah.
Lets not forget the DVDs where you can choose, in a BIIIIIIG menu, your language just to be presented the anti-piracy spot with the correct subtitles <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad-fix.gif" />
Doesn't really say much though, as I don't really use torrents more than for the occasional movie, if at all.
All I've got to say is, Piratebay > Torrentspy for perfectly legal torrents and <i>other</i> uses.
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Surely you don't mean my collection of <i>those educational</i> materials.
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Piracy is illegal, mmmkay?
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Picturing your avatar saying that is pretty lol-worthy.
Piracy is illegal, mmmkay?
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Legislation is handled by a few and does not have necessarily reflect what most of society actually thinks about certain issues.
So in addition of asking yourself: "Is it legal?", you should also ask: "Is is immoral?".
A few examples and problem that can occur:
Reasons why people download movies/games etc.
They don't want to wait for the DvD release, the game has not been released in their home country yet.
This is imho a good reason and as long as you buy the game/DvD when it becomes available it is morally OK to DL it.
They used to own a certain game/movie but it got scratched/they lost it.
Again DLing such a game is perfectly fine imho, because you already paid for it. (Fun fact: I bought Ufo:Enemy Unknown 4 times. original dos release, CE edition, a second ce edition and the xcom collectors pack <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)
They cannot afford the game/movie.
This is interesting. Because if they cannot afford the movie industry does not make any losses if they DL it instead.
They want to try the game before buying it.
This is also perfectly fine imho. I hate buying a game ,just to realize that it doesnt run on my comp.
They just want one song from the new 50cent album and dont want to buy the whole CD.
This is imho not fine, because there are enough legal programs, that allow for single file downloads.
They just want to have it.
This is often related to the cannot afford it problematic and is should be morally handled equally.
They dont want to be arsed with copy protection, stupid anti-piracy spots and thus DL a warez(which usually includes a crack in addition to the game files)or they DL the movie, because everything unnecessary gets cut anyway.
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Some final thoughts:
How many people that currently download their games/music/movies would actually buy them if downloading became impossible and how many would just stop playing games, watching DvD etc.?
This is most important , because if the industry actually managed to stop piracy I doubt they would see a huge sales increase.
What do copy protection, anti piracy spots etc actually accomplish. Do people buy their games, because they like dealing with pain in the arse DvD swapping and funky copy protection programs that take 2 minutes to load?
Who usually notices the anti-piracy spots on DvDs? The legal customer who bought the DvD, or the pirate who DLs the movie, with the spot being cut?
Conclusion: the industry SPITS on the legal customer while the pirate remains comfy because he knows, that his downloads are free from funky copy protection and sexy anti piracy spots, that you are forced to watch before the movie starts <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
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Piracy is illegal, mmmkay?
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Unless you have a letter of marque, in which case it's sanctioned by the king and you won't get thrown in jail.
*The more you know!*
Unless you have a letter of marque, in which case it's sanctioned by the king and you won't get thrown in jail.
*The more you know!*
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Lucky me, I am sanctioned by the King of Panta Loonary. I've got everything needed for political immunity!
Unless you have a letter of marque, in which case it's sanctioned by the king and you won't get thrown in jail.
*The more you know!*
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Unless you're caught by another nation. Then you're screwed, old skool style.
Unless you're caught by another nation. Then you're screwed, old skool style.
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If you were getting caught, you weren't a very good pirate then were you?
I'm a terrible pirate though, everything I steal is in Spanish.
*mournful yaaaarrr*
Really the only stuff I pirate are things that are incredibly expensive, and that Ill end up buying eventually anyway.
And music. Just because the stuff I want is hard to find, and I often don't know WHAT I want.
This is imho a good reason and as long as you buy the game/DvD when it becomes available it is morally OK to DL it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><b>Moral response:</b> Grey area. If 100% of the people that used this as an excuse actually did buy the product. Then it might be acceptable. But you and I both know that's not the case.
<b>Legal Response:</b> Illegal. Try to import it if you can't wait.
<!--quoteo(post=1633829:date=Jun 16 2007, 01:53 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 16 2007, 01:53 PM) [snapback]1633829[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They used to own a certain game/movie but it got scratched/they lost it.
Again DLing such a game is perfectly fine imho, because you already paid for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><b>Moral response:</b> Grey again. I would say replacing a damaged disc would be acceptable. But a lost copy has a significant probability of finding a new owner.
I would only consider the damaged replacement case acceptable because you're allowed to keep a backup for just such a reason. If you were not allowed to keep a backup, I would cite that other manufactured products also become damaged. And damaged item replacement adds a factor of new sales.
<b>Legal Response:</b> This might be legal if you still had the damaged copy in your possession, dunno. But it's definitely illegal for whoever shared their copy.
<!--quoteo(post=1633829:date=Jun 16 2007, 01:53 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 16 2007, 01:53 PM) [snapback]1633829[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They cannot afford the game/movie.
This is interesting. Because if they cannot afford the movie industry does not make any losses if they DL it instead.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><b>Moral response:</b> That's BS. Get a (first/second/third/fourth/....) job if you want it and can't afford it. Ever drank a soda or ate some junk food while pirating/playing that media? Ever made an impulse buy in the last few months? Does your wardrobe contain more than 2 pairs of each of the bare essentials and some work clothes? You seem to own a computer hooked up to a broadband connection. How come you can afford any/all of that? This is morally unacceptable.
<b>Legal Response:</b> Illegal.
<!--quoteo(post=1633829:date=Jun 16 2007, 01:53 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 16 2007, 01:53 PM) [snapback]1633829[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They want to try the game before buying it.
This is also perfectly fine imho. I hate buying a game ,just to realize that it doesnt run on my comp.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><b>Moral response:</b> Unacceptable. While I admit that a game not running on your system after you've bought it is unacceptable. If you push the right support buttons you should be able to get a refund. I might be willing to shift this to grey if you could prove that 100% of users that used this as an excuse played the game for the absolute minimum amount of time to confirm that it works on their system.
<b>Legal Response:</b> Illegal.
<!--quoteo(post=1633829:date=Jun 16 2007, 01:53 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 16 2007, 01:53 PM) [snapback]1633829[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They just want to have it.
This is often related to the cannot afford it problematic and is should be morally handled equally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><b>Moral response:</b> Unacceptable. Compare to teenage hooligans who "just want to" egg your house a bit. Or some random person who "just wants to" mail you a turd in a box on a daily basis.
<b>Legal Response:</b> Illegal.
<!--quoteo(post=1633829:date=Jun 16 2007, 01:53 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 16 2007, 01:53 PM) [snapback]1633829[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They dont want to be arsed with copy protection, stupid anti-piracy spots and thus DL a warez(which usually includes a crack in addition to the game files)or they DL the movie, because everything unnecessary gets cut anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><b>Moral response:</b> Grey. If they already own a copy of the product, and are only circumventing anti-piracy annoyances then this is acceptable. It's funny to note that anti-piracy measures on retail products exist solely because of the existence of pirates. So who's fault is it really that that crap is in there?
<b>Legal Response:</b> I'm fairly sure bypassing anti-piracy annoyances might violate your license agreement. Gonna have to punt on whether this is actually illegal.
Summary. This only ever begins to approach legal/moral acceptability if the media producer has sold you a copy of the item.