Guessing in Sudoku

Sr_Dela

<div class="IPBDescription">Hint isn't very logical</div>I've attached a screenshot showing the Hint function stating that eight is only possible in that one box. When the one next to it has just as much a chance of being eight just by what's on the board as it stands. I thought there was no guessing here, man! Why you gotta be like dat?!

EDIT: except I can't seem to get the file attached. Hang on for a sec.

EDIT: screw it, here it is:

<img src="http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1026/4375716/9532990/261829068.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

Comprox

Actually, the 8 must go there. An 8 must go in that far left column (as the hint states). In my picture below, I have crossed out every row that already has an 8, meaning it can't go there. That leaves 4 spots (circled in red), where the 8 can go. Since the 5, 1 and 7 take up three of the spots, that only leaves the one spot for the 8.

Sr_Dela

What about the square next to the eight that the hint put in?

Comprox

Sure, you could put in the eight in the box to the right based on what you have filled out so far, but then you are stuck. Only the box the hint is pointing to will work for the 8 in the column. If you put an 8 in the box you mentioned, then there is no where for the 8 to go in the far left column.

In the picture below. If you put the 8 in the green circled spot, then there is no place left for the 8 to go in the far left column making it impossible for the 8 to go in the green circled spot.

Sr_Dela

That's part of the puzzle though, is getting the numbers right. But it's impossible to do it without hints or guessing when you're in a situation like this, and that's one of the things they said you wouldn't have to do in Zen : Guess.

Comprox

Uh, no guessing was needed there. Even without that hint, it could have all been done with the steps I mentioned above.

You would have looked at far left column "I need an 8 here".
You would scan down the column to see where the 8 could go.
You would have removed all the rows where an 8 already was (see lines crossing out rows in the picture).
You would notice of the 4 remaining spots, only 1 is empty (red circles).
Thus, the 8 must go there.
Since the 8 is now in the red circle, an 8 can NOT go in the green circle.

No guessing needed.

Sr_Dela

Ah. Yes. I see your point. But this isn't the only time that this has happened and alot of those times the horizontal row which already had an eight already had a number there too. But thank you for proving me wrong in this one.

Kassinger

You should be glad, Dela, those puzzles are more pleasing than the immediately obvious ones. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

tjosan

That IS an immediately obvious one.

Soul_Rider

lol, must agree there i saw it straight away, couldn't work out what the problem understanding it was...

hookeyed

bleep bleep bleep