Law abiding majority is a myth

Nil_IQNil_IQ Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15520Members
edited June 2007 in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">... according to the BBC</div><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6235988.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6235988.stm</a>

<ranton>

This honestly doesn't surprise me. I've been alive for less than three decades and even I've noticed the law becoming a sprawling, inefficient mass of bureaucracy, nonsensical laws and pointless regulations. Oh, and ASBOs. They were a <i>really</i> good idea.

Is it any wonder people don't have any respect for the law in a country where the law is so broken? I have the utmost respect for Police as individuals, they do a tough job and don't get nearly enough thanks for the kind of ###### they have to put up with on a daily basis. I have no problem with people being arrested for actual <i>crimes</i> such as murder, rape, theft, fraud e.t.c. What I have a problem with is this government's habit of making up ridiculous new laws rather than just enforce the existing ones. What I have a problem with is old ladies being handed ASBOs for playing music too loud while roving bands of degenerates vandalize and intimidate at will (because its easier to catch the old lady than the degenerates). What I have a problem with is Police chasing after people breaking silly regulations which never existed five years ago to meet government quotas when they should be responding to real crimes.

Quite simply, I too find myself having less and less respect for the law day by day, and i'm fairly confident i'm not the only one.

</rantoff>
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Comments

  • KainTSAKainTSA Join Date: 2005-05-30 Member: 52831Members, Constellation
    Well some of the things mentioned in the article are legitimate laws that are being broken such as:

    "A total of 8% did not disclose faulty goods in second-hand sales "

    That causes actual damage to the person you are duping. But I agree most of the crimes mentioned are minor offenses. I doubt police are actively searching out people who break minor laws over the major ones. The minor ones are just easier to catch sometimes. Anything involving tax evation or things of that nature don't require actual foot police to investigate so they are easily found. As for the noise ordinance stuff, I don't know how it works there, but in the US cops won't bother you for noise unless they get a complaint. I would blame the people for reporting, not the police for following up on it.
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  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair 日本福岡県 Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos
    An interesting article but nothing surprising. People break laws all the time. Lets see a show of hands of who drives a few miles per hour (or kilometers per hour) over the speed limit each day <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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  • TOmekkiTOmekki Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23524Members
    laws are made to be broken

    born to be wi-i-ild
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  • CxwfCxwf Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13168Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1635923:date=Jun 26 2007, 08:40 AM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Jun 26 2007, 08:40 AM) [snapback]1635923[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    An interesting article but nothing surprising. People break laws all the time. Lets see a show of hands of who drives a few miles per hour (or kilometers per hour) over the speed limit each day <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Heh, I just got a $400 speeding ticket while I was actually driving <i>exactly</i> the limit...not the even ordinary "5 above limit" that most people drive. That sure gives <i>me</i> lots of respect for the law. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester
    edited June 2007
    <!--quoteo(post=1635959:date=Jun 26 2007, 01:19 PM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ Jun 26 2007, 01:19 PM) [snapback]1635959[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Heh, I just got a $400 speeding ticket while I was actually driving <i>exactly</i> the limit...not the even ordinary "5 above limit" that most people drive. That sure gives <i>me</i> lots of respect for the law. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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    Anecdotal Evidence!

    [edit]
    Sorry, to add some substance.

    My stance is that like the "Silent Majority," the "Law Abiding Majority," cannot accurately be measured because they can never be found. A bit like dark mater. Theoretically, mathematically, it should exist to balance the equation. But very hard to find.
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  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    If there is a poll with a representative sample group, it'll find the "law-abiding majority" if it exists. There's no reason to assume that someone who never breaks the law would lie in a poll.
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  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    This does surprise me, if only because I've always assumed people were more like me than they perhaps are. I may steal media regularly, but nearly every other law I try to watch like a hawk.
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  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    Or perhaps people ARE like you? They steal stationery or cheat with their taxes, you steal media.
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  • UltimaGeckoUltimaGecko hates endnotes Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16320Members
    edited June 2007
    Well, if you mean 'law-abiding' simply as someone who follows every law as close as possible to the letter, a highly doubt there's a 'law-abiding majority'. Sometimes it's just simpler to do something wrong when no one's around that (just based on general probability) will hurt no one.


    There's no cars around, the nearest cross-walk is 300m away, you might as well just cross the street.
    You're not sure how much that car is worth, so you put down a more beneficial number on your tax return.
    You lost a piece of paper your friend/family signed that you need, so you print it off and just throw your version of their signature on there (I'd never do this, but I can see the validity for people that do - if they signed it for you already, you've got a signed copy somewhere).
    You download that song because you don't think you'd like the entire album and you wouldn't buy it anyway.
    You purposelly fill out a form vaguley and with half-truths to avoid bothersome checks and further work.
    ...

    I could see accidentally taking a pen or something from work, but anyone who steals a stapler is just kind of ...well, you're getting paid to do stuff, buy your own stapler, this isn't too difficult.

    A lot of the stuff on that list seems to be simple 'charismatic license' or just connections, and what's the point of knowing people if they don't help you? I'd bet nearly everyone in here who's had a job got at least one of them because they knew someone that worked 'somewhere'. That's cheating too, because that's not equal-opportunity, but we let that go all the time...

    Imagine how much more annoying, bureaucratic and lethargic the world would be if everyone followed every rule all the time (and also how impossible it would be with the vagueness of many laws). It's not a surprise to me that a majority of the population isn't 'perfectly law-abiding', but I'd bet a vast, vast, vast majority aren't 'criminals' (that is, people that commit 'hard' crimes like murder, theft, rape, vandalism, arson, etc.).

    Heck, everyone that's accessed the internet has probably accidentally done numerous illegal things.
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  • tjosantjosan Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16374Members, Constellation
    Two million swedes break the law by stealing media. Funny stuff.
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  • KainTSAKainTSA Join Date: 2005-05-30 Member: 52831Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1636021:date=Jun 26 2007, 06:48 PM:name=Quaunaut)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quaunaut @ Jun 26 2007, 06:48 PM) [snapback]1636021[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    This does surprise me, if only because I've always assumed people were more like me than they perhaps are. I may steal media regularly, but nearly every other law I try to watch like a hawk.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I may speed regularly but I would never steal media <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    Get my point? Everyone breaks some law. You are no different than the other people mentioned. Everyone likes to think that the thing they do is somehow less of a 'real' crime than the things other people do. You deprive artists of their well-deserved money. I increase the chance of an accident and resulting harm to others.
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  • TOmekkiTOmekki Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23524Members
    i work for the finnish post office, my job is to deal out newspapers at night... and i use my own car for it.

    ive stopped counting how many traffic rules i break on a nightly basis (if i had a better car id drive like they do in fast&furious or something, thatd be awesome).
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  • KassingerKassinger Shades of grey Join Date: 2002-02-20 Member: 229Members, Constellation
    More than break rules, we also lie about breaking them to ourselves all the time. People (except those who are clinically depressed) change how past events occurred in the head all the time to justify and positively depict lot of events in our past.

    Half the times we break a law we won't think of it the day after or ever again. It's a psychological survival strategy, maintaining an overly positive self-image.

    It might be better for society too that we fool ourselves. If we start identifying ourselves as criminals, our wrongdoings will easily become more frequent and worse.
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  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1636110:date=Jun 27 2007, 06:57 AM:name=KainTSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KainTSA @ Jun 27 2007, 06:57 AM) [snapback]1636110[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    I may speed regularly but I would never steal media <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    Get my point? Everyone breaks some law. You are no different than the other people mentioned. Everyone likes to think that the thing they do is somehow less of a 'real' crime than the things other people do. You deprive <b>record companies</b> of their well-deserved money. I increase the chance of an accident and resulting harm to others.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Fixed, but I agree in general.
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  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    Please don't take this as me picking on you Quaunaut, but that's actually a good example of justifying it to yourself. Like Kain said, "Everyone likes to think that the thing they do is somehow less of a 'real' crime than the things other people do." To preserve a clear conscience and maintain an overly positive self-image, like Kassinger said. The record companies can afford it after all.
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  • UltimaGeckoUltimaGecko hates endnotes Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16320Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1636242:date=Jun 28 2007, 02:32 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Jun 28 2007, 02:32 AM) [snapback]1636242[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Please don't take this as me picking on you Quaunaut, but that's actually a good example of justifying it to yourself. Like Kain said, "Everyone likes to think that the thing they do is somehow less of a 'real' crime than the things other people do." To preserve a clear conscience and maintain an overly positive self-image, like Kassinger said. The record companies can afford it after all.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    As correct as that may be, it's also slightly flawed, because sometimes general human consensus may be that a law or rule<i> is </i> unjust and<i> should</i> be broken. Let's go right to an extreme example: the founding fathers of the US committed treason, but I doubt you'll find an American citizens (or other countries' as well) claiming we should renounce our independence and rejoin Britain because we seperated from them 'illegally'.
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  • DrfuzzyDrfuzzy FEW... MORE.... INCHES... Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21094Members
    TBH police need to focus on more big stuff than people speeding a few over or where you walk across the street at, around where i live they will get you for <i>anything</i>
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  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1636263:date=Jun 28 2007, 11:55 AM:name=UltimaGecko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(UltimaGecko @ Jun 28 2007, 11:55 AM) [snapback]1636263[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    As correct as that may be, it's also slightly flawed, because sometimes general human consensus may be that a law or rule<i> is </i> unjust and<i> should</i> be broken. Let's go right to an extreme example: the founding fathers of the US committed treason, but I doubt you'll find an American citizens (or other countries' as well) claiming we should renounce our independence and rejoin Britain because we seperated from them 'illegally'.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm torn back and forth between wanting to argue my point and not wanting to derail the thread. What do I do? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
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  • CxwfCxwf Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13168Members, Constellation
    The original point was kinda boring, and no ones saying much, so go ahead and derail it. It'll be more interesting that way. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
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