Top Tier Marine Techs
N_3
\o/ Join Date: 2004-03-12 Member: 27291Members, Constellation
\o/ Join Date: 2004-03-12 Member: 27291Members, Constellation
Now, i'm not sure exactly how the tech trees in ns2 are going to change but i came up with some proto equivalent or greater techs that could be used by marines. The marines could get access to these upgrades by constructing other prototype buildings (named differently of couse) on the same tech level, or perhaps building even more advanced buildings that require some sort of proto. Due to the cost of these advanced structures, the marines will effectively have to choose one type of proto building (similar to choosing jp or ha). Thus somewhat branching the marine tech tree.
Ok, so here's the list:<ul><li>nuke - kills all hives, mass warning, flashing lights, countdown (aliens have to kill it in time)</li><li>an alien virus</li><li>-</li><li>silent build</li><li>fast build</li><li>instant build (still needs a marine to touch, makes a loud noise)</li><li>commander build (maybe makes a loud noise, takes time, or costs alot)</li><li>-</li><li>complete equipment deployment (available weapons etc can be dropped anywhere)</li><li>complete turret deployment (turrets no longer need turret factories)</li><li>-</li><li>increased obs energy or regen</li><li>complete surveillance (infinite obs radius)</li><li>-</li><li>resource economizer (collect more res) (maybe makes res towers weaker)</li><li>-</li><li>weapons4/armour4 (with visual effect)</li><li>jetpack or HA reinforcements (spawn with it)</li><li>-</li><li>marine cloaking shield?</li><li>silent marine movement</li><li>parasite/sof immunity</li><li>-</li><li>increased siege range</li><li>-</li><li>a powerful weapon; ie rail gun, rocket launcher, or laser</li><li>a power defense weapon, say resident-evil style laser tripwire</li><li>katanas (more dmg/range)</li><li>-</li><li>100hp medpacks</li><li>increased marine health</li><li>-</li><li>increased clip size</li><li>infinite ammo (still need to reload)</li><li>multiple first slot weapons carryable</li><li>-</li><li>all guns deadly accurate (pistol style)</li><li>-</li><li>catalyst default/faster movement with proto-style visual</li><li>-</li><li>adren zapper instead of elec(damage)</li><li>-</li><li>hardwired upgrades (dont need arms labs or whatever standing to use upgrades)</li><li>portable ip's</li></ul>These upgrades can be grouped together in categories of similar area, ie all the ammo affecting ones, armour affecting ones, weapon affecting ones, etc. Or they can be grouped together in strategic categories, ie sneaky 'ninja' style approaches, aggressive/loud 'pirate' style approaches, siege base approaches etc, where each would have its own proto building. Obviously not all of these are good ideas, just a list of different possibilities if the game goes to a higher tech level.
Ok, so here's the list:<ul><li>nuke - kills all hives, mass warning, flashing lights, countdown (aliens have to kill it in time)</li><li>an alien virus</li><li>-</li><li>silent build</li><li>fast build</li><li>instant build (still needs a marine to touch, makes a loud noise)</li><li>commander build (maybe makes a loud noise, takes time, or costs alot)</li><li>-</li><li>complete equipment deployment (available weapons etc can be dropped anywhere)</li><li>complete turret deployment (turrets no longer need turret factories)</li><li>-</li><li>increased obs energy or regen</li><li>complete surveillance (infinite obs radius)</li><li>-</li><li>resource economizer (collect more res) (maybe makes res towers weaker)</li><li>-</li><li>weapons4/armour4 (with visual effect)</li><li>jetpack or HA reinforcements (spawn with it)</li><li>-</li><li>marine cloaking shield?</li><li>silent marine movement</li><li>parasite/sof immunity</li><li>-</li><li>increased siege range</li><li>-</li><li>a powerful weapon; ie rail gun, rocket launcher, or laser</li><li>a power defense weapon, say resident-evil style laser tripwire</li><li>katanas (more dmg/range)</li><li>-</li><li>100hp medpacks</li><li>increased marine health</li><li>-</li><li>increased clip size</li><li>infinite ammo (still need to reload)</li><li>multiple first slot weapons carryable</li><li>-</li><li>all guns deadly accurate (pistol style)</li><li>-</li><li>catalyst default/faster movement with proto-style visual</li><li>-</li><li>adren zapper instead of elec(damage)</li><li>-</li><li>hardwired upgrades (dont need arms labs or whatever standing to use upgrades)</li><li>portable ip's</li></ul>These upgrades can be grouped together in categories of similar area, ie all the ammo affecting ones, armour affecting ones, weapon affecting ones, etc. Or they can be grouped together in strategic categories, ie sneaky 'ninja' style approaches, aggressive/loud 'pirate' style approaches, siege base approaches etc, where each would have its own proto building. Obviously not all of these are good ideas, just a list of different possibilities if the game goes to a higher tech level.
Comments
The comm would upgrade this, and it would have to charge up for say 1 - 2 minutes.
The comm can then select a squad of marines and phase them from one spot on the the map to another spot where there are other players. Instant reinforcements
Kind of like the way drop pods work for space marines in Dawn of War 40K.
..but you forgot the TSA time travelling tech, which can be used once in a game, if researched by the comm, to travel back in time to 3-5 minutes ago and then be able to perform another strat or try the first one again, if you failed.
The server just needs to record games similar to a hltv demo to make this possible.
some of this seems a bit overpowered but there are a few ideas that i wouldnt mind seeing.
since you dinnit give them crap ;-)
just kidding some of your ideas are a bit overpowered (Complete Obs and Nuke)
some sound fun and good
I like the virus thing.
I like the idea of another size of health pack...but maybe limit the amount he could drop by time
(honestly it is mindblowing having 3 skulks chewing on marine while a magical rain of health showers him from the sky )
I would say not parasite immunity but at least a mechnism to counterattack would be nice.
(weld gun equals dead parasite )
i would even take the portable ip's further and have the ability to move turrets etc would be excellent gameplay mechanism if the soldier could not shoot while he is toting them.
I imagine 1 soldier could carry 1 IP or... 1 Turret & 1 Factory or... 2 Turrets
while the rest watch his arse
a drop would be quick...( Drop everything we have incoming )
a setup would be slow but not as slow as a full build ( Okay setup coast looks clear )
Ok, so here's the list:[list]
[*]nuke - kills all hives, mass warning, flashing lights, countdown (aliens have to kill it in time)
[*]an alien virus
[*]increased obs energy or regen
[*]complete surveillance (infinite obs radius)
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I like all yours ideas, especially this attached above:
"Uber-weapons", Nuke and Virus.
And in relation to the OBS, maybe it could with an a new and expensive upgrades show ( in short range ) the different aliens life-forms beyond the walls in the same way seen in the "Eraser" movie, not a simple circle. The simple circle is useful in large range, and the new system could view in short-range; so the marines could watch through the walls if there is an <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tiny.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::onos::" border="0" alt="tiny.gif" /> or a <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" />
I like all yours ideas, especially this attached above:
"Uber-weapons", Nuke and Virus.
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Those weapons would just turn the game into a RTS game with lots of diffrent super-weapons, like command & conquer generals
Several of these are interesting at least towards making people think, which is good. I can't say I support anything like the sniper pistol though... perfect shot needs to be gone permanently.
<!--quoteo(post=1637189:date=Jul 3 2007, 05:47 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Jul 3 2007, 05:47 AM) [snapback]1637189[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ive got another one - dunno what you would call it, but it works kind of like an instant phase gate , without the phase gate.
The comm would upgrade this, and it would have to charge up for say 1 - 2 minutes.
The comm can then select a squad of marines and phase them from one spot on the the map to another spot where there are other players. Instant reinforcements
Kind of like the way drop pods work for space marines in Dawn of War 40K.
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They were at first thinking of doing this in StarCraft 2 for the Protoss, but it would mean a massive imbalance because it allows one to place units anywhere and destroy the concept of territory control which is ultimately at the heart of what makes a RTS fun. You see in SC2, you move a fairly fragile phase prism into position and deploy thereby controlling that territory and only then can you teleport in Zealots. Without territory control you ruin the fun of a RTS. You can't have powershifs and comebacks without this aspect. No "epic" games.
<!--quoteo(post=1637387:date=Jul 4 2007, 10:46 AM:name=Hybridclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hybridclaw @ Jul 4 2007, 10:46 AM) [snapback]1637387[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A virus as a weapon seems more fitting towards the alien team since aliens would use biological weapons while marines are more technology oriented.
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I agree, but marines could have an equivalent: replicators.
And secondly, both of these weapons should be weapons of desperation and have a random chance of backfiring and attacking both teams instead of just one.
<!--quoteo(post=1637443:date=Jul 4 2007, 07:58 PM:name=Hybridclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hybridclaw @ Jul 4 2007, 07:58 PM) [snapback]1637443[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those weapons would just turn the game into a RTS game with lots of diffrent super-weapons, like command & conquer generals
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...as developers tend to buff towards the "extreme" rather than focus on the lowly upgrades and units.
<b><!--coloro:#FFCC00--><span style="color:#FFCC00"><!--/coloro-->An item only seems powerful by its contrast with other lesser items.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> Remember that.
[*]nuke - kills all hives, mass warning, flashing lights, countdown (aliens have to kill it in time)
~too powerful, adjust to kills hive closest to marine spawn and only available if aliens have all 3.
[*]an alien virus
~This has the most promise but what does it do? Slows them down, reduce their power or rate of attack? Aliens should be able to get cured some how or maybe it is only active for 1min before you have to research a new strain which takes 2 min. Once researched you can select when to deploy so that you can time it with an assult on a give. OR This could be the sec fire on the GL releaseing a lerk style gas effect and any alien in it stuffers some of the above effects.
[*]silent build
~quieter build, aliens still need some chance of detecting the marines
[*]fast build
~ good but needs some limits maybe cat packs could do this
[*]instant build (still needs a marine to touch, makes a loud noise)
~ should cost alot and/or only be able to be done once every Xmin
[*]commander build (maybe makes a loud noise, takes time, or costs alot)
~ as above, also not appicalble to phase for obvous reasons
[*]complete equipment deployment (available weapons etc can be dropped anywhere)
~ extended equipment delopment so its easier to drop items in spawn but you should not be able to upgrade all marines with HA on the other side of the map
[*]complete turret deployment (turrets no longer need turret factories)
~ extended deployment, other wise you just build a TF in base, upgrade to siege and then drop them in hive.
[*]increased obs energy or regen
~ cool but if you need more just buy another one. I would prefer a scan hot key on the COM HUD that takes the energy from the fullest one unless you have a paticluiar one selected. OR If you have too obs then maybe your rate of regen increases.
[*]complete surveillance (infinite obs radius)
~ extended surveillance, compete would be too much
[*]resource economizer (collect more res) (maybe makes res towers weaker)
~ no this would unbalance the game far too much. Better to make res towers OC resistant if anything
[*]weapons4/armour4 (with visual effect)
~ would have to be way expensive
[*]jetpack or HA reinforcements (spawn with it)
~ have to have an ongoing cost i.e. the cost of the JP or HA. This would also switch the balance too much. Welder reinforcement would be better idea
[*]marine cloaking shield?
~no this is on the list of not happening ever. Cloaking is an alien trait.
[*]silent marine movement
~ only when walking, running marines should still make sound
[*]parasite/sof immunity
~ No to both, however, after 10secs of welding you could reduce the range of para and SOF could be only if damaged
[*]increased siege range
~ no, marines should not be able to nail the hive from afar anymore than they already can.
[*]a powerful weapon; ie rail gun, rocket launcher, or laser
~ would have to have alot of negatives i.e. long aiming time
[*]a power defense weapon, say resident-evil style laser tripwire
~ Mines use to be laser but they caused too many crashes, could be the same in NS 2
[*]katanas (more dmg/range)
~ used to think that this was a good idea but marines are range not melee
[*]100hp medpacks
~ Ok but they should cost 3 times as much
[*]increased marine health
~ have to have another cost e.g. slower movement
[*]increased clip size
~ cool
[*]infinite ammo (still need to reload)
~ no, the com should drop ammo if needed. If you must then regen ammo or increase ammo capacty.
[*]multiple first slot weapons carryable
~ no, each marine has a role
[*]all guns deadly accurate (pistol style)
~ Hell no
[*]catalyst default/faster movement with proto-style visual
~ ?
[*]adren zapper instead of elec(damage)
~ no, this would be worse for marines
[*]hardwired upgrades (dont need arms labs or whatever standing to use upgrades)
~ no this would unbalance far too much
[*]portable ip's
~ no this would unbalance far too much, if you want to IP somewhere else just Build a CC as well.
Improvements to a marines GUI in graduated levels which you could call AI applications ("Commander, could I have a better computer in my head, this one is telling me to commit seppeku!")
- distance to target
- lead target indicator
- general health of target
- enviroment highlighters
- pathway info
Advanced Autonomous Robotics (aka a better mousetrap aka turret with legs or 'whatever' aka the Combine pitch in and help)
Advanced Enviromental Hacking ("Commander, could you vent the next room into space? That will take 30 seconds and me welding this, that, and the other thing?!? Well, best get to work then!") & ("Could we get the lights turned on in here? Ten seconds of hacking and a weld? Roger dodger!")
Advanced Engineering - time to break out the nanite built lego blocks aka "Commander, could I get a few ladder pieces here? Oh, and that bridge could use a few armorplast plates welded over those holes. And maybe we could place a temporary weld on that door to hold them off for a few seconds before the onos bust through - oh did I mention some stuff breaks ... speaking of which perhaps we should put the parts of a shield generator together so we can put a patch on the space viewing window that broke. Er, yeah, thanks commander, could we research and build all that, soon."
So, really, there is a ton of stuff to branch into and cross back over and flip off to some great big bang. If the Kharaa don't uber evolve and eat your sorry TSA arse. Which they probably will because the rest of your fellow Marine grunts will be tossing out the various Commanders because they'll all be arguing about what tech tree is better ... in the mean time the resources will be dwindling and those research trees will be expensive and time consuming, because what used to be 3 tiers will now be 5 or 6 tiers with branch A, B, and C. Which of course if the Marines actually act as a team, the incredible options in resource management will allow them to make the far reaches of space safe for TSA once again. Or not, don't you hate it when that dynamic infestation blocks all your chances at using what used to be a perfectly fine space ship or station or mine ...
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
how about... none of those <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
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To the original post or mine too? Do you just want NS2 to be a graphical update and no gameplay changes? (Too late, check out Dynamic Infestation and Flamethrower in the developer blog, I believe)
You could probably do yourself a favor of not reading like a troll if you would support you humble opinion by elaborating on stated opinion. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
To the original post or mine too? Do you just want NS2 to be a graphical update and no gameplay changes? (Too late, check out Dynamic Infestation and Flamethrower in the developer blog, I believe)
You could probably do yourself a favor of not reading like a troll if you would support you humble opinion by elaborating on stated opinion. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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emphasis should be on the gameplay and map porting, not brainstorming up cool new gadgets and weapons that just break the game and make it boring
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Since when is creativity boring? You are entitled to your opinion of course, but I think you'll find that the rest of us won't agree with you on that one. Implementation of a new idea is everything.
I agree with a lot of what Misere said. Again, it's good to start thinking of new top tier technologies but the ones you listed either destroy teamplay elements, could be extremely imbalancing, or both. Out of all of those I think W4/A4, the virus (or replicator as I explained above), and intel ugrades would be the best options. I don't think I can agree at all with several of those.
yeah i noticed that too...
it's like this post is infested with a bunch of people who only play marines
and they crap their pants when they see an alien.
myself i just want better skulk wallwalking...
mapmakers should playtest to see if skulks can cling to ceilings walls etc. easily.
they are the base unit but it became such a rush to leave the base unit.
i quite like the advanced engineering addition. dropping ladders or crates, barrels could come in rather handy.
I also think there should be five chambers for aliens; you can only pick three (unless your hives been rebuilt 5 times). In my mind disruption chambers which send out emps on two-minute timers would be amazing. Their upgrades would only affect marines in negative manners, no alien improvements. Also Bionic chambers (part machine, part alien adaptation), aliens becoming somewhat cybernetic because they are absorbing human tech would be... the coolest thing ever?
1 shot reload, usable for onos hunting and hive killing... less usefull against skulks, lerks and gorges since they can be abit hard to hit and at least skulks and lerks will be abel to get away and keep away for durigation...
<b><!--coloro:#FFCC00--><span style="color:#FFCC00"><!--/coloro-->An item only seems powerful by its contrast with other lesser items.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> Remember that.
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Please, please read that again. To make a top tier tech seem so awesome it has to be compared to something lesser. Why not focus on the minor upgrades? Or more levels or upgrades? Like 5 levels of armor and weapons upgrades: each level of weapons gives an 8% increase to damage, with a max therefore of 40%.
And how about those upgrades being from buildings rather than units? For example, new types of turrets and sieges? How about some flying bots? Can you imagine the coolness of seeing a swarm of +30 manhacks flying in with the heavy train (and perhaps some kind of tank to)? GG! But it only seems awesome because you can compare one of those things to a basic level unit or item. The human mind innately make these kinds of comparisons all the time. And that's why plugins in games that make for some stupidly overpowered weapons are boring.
Sadly, I don't think people are listening to what I'm trying to caution. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
Smaller increments, more levels, and more branches. Basicly more options, the sum greater than the parts by themselves.
This is why I think little upgrades to just about every aspect of the marine AND kharaa experience should be important, it allows a unpredictability and adaptibility to the Paper, Rock, Scissors game at the base of the RTS elements of NS and a twist on the FPS experience.
Think of System Shock 2 or Deus Ex. Yes it was single player, but then I will point you to observe Starcraft (and its expansion and many mods).
That should give you a better idea of the mix I already see in NS1 and the clear phenomenal potential for NS2. Dynamic Infestation and Flamethrowers already indicate a whole new set of branching technologies and more increments of levels to advancing tech / abilities on both sides of the stellar conflict.
yeah i noticed that too...
it's like this post is infested with a bunch of people who only play marines
and they crap their pants when they see an alien.
myself i just want better skulk wallwalking...
mapmakers should playtest to see if skulks can cling to ceilings walls etc. easily.
they are the base unit but it became such a rush to leave the base unit.
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Additional Chambers
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=2197573130610631680&showtopic=100489&st=20&gopid=1639265&" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....id=1639265&</a>
# instant build (still needs a marine to touch, makes a loud noise)
# commander build (maybe makes a loud noise, takes time, or costs alot)
You can't have both at once, it's one or the other. I mean those two upgrades are equivalent to "bigdig" when sv_cheats is "1". Comm can just spam sieges at the hive and end the game......
Some things you mentioned cannot go together. Such as:
# instant build (still needs a marine to touch, makes a loud noise)
# commander build (maybe makes a loud noise, takes time, or costs alot)
You can't have both at once, it's one or the other. I mean those two upgrades are equivalent to "bigdig" when sv_cheats is "1". Comm can just spam sieges at the hive and end the game......
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I think the ideas are relatively silly...
However he already has them listed as mutually exclusive.
either the com can build it by himself. takes longer and makes a good amount of noise, so shoddy for ninja siege, but good for when you need to put up stuff in an unoccupied area/getting passed an infested area.
OR
it can go up instantly after a marine (not the com) touches is. Nice for quick ninja siege, pointless for anything else (unless swimming in rez).
Personally I think that there are to many 'i win' buttons in your suggestion. As well as lots of things that encourage turtling.