Dojo Working Rules

Radix

We at the dojo are developing a set of rules for organized play, not to bury people in laywering, but just to add some concrete-ness to our tournament system.

Any constructive criticism is welcome.

<a href="http://nsdojo.net/viewtopic.php?id=95" target="_blank">http://nsdojo.net/viewtopic.php?id=95</a>

Thaldarin

Too much red tape.

Radix

<!--quoteo(post=1637891:date=Jul 8 2007, 06:47 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Jul 8 2007, 06:47 AM) [snapback]1637891[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Too much red tape.
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That's what I thought too, until I started running things. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

tjosan

I think it looks good... perhaps restrict how flagged players in general may be used in game as well (fading lerk etc)?

Radix

That's a worthy suggestion. I'll consider it - thank you.

tullen

aaa

Thansal

an interesting idea.

I don't think that restricting flagged players would be a good idea for the simple fact that your mission statement sounds like you want to train up us regulars. Well, how are we supposed to get better if we never have to compete against a competitive level Fade/lerk/com?

I do like the idea of limiting the number of flagged players to 2 per team. However, have you thought of limiting the flagged players to be equal on competing teams (limiting to 1 per/allowing more then 2 per)? I don't know how much overhead that would create, but just a thought.

The last thing I would say is that you should create specific rules on how a player becomes flagged out side of being a competitive player (I am assuming this has something to do with impartial judges deciding if they are skilled enough to equal a competitive player).

Ah well, good luck with it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

That_Annoying_Kid

Would I fall into the flagged?

[edit]
it's like thansal said:
The last thing I would say is that you should create specific rules on how a player becomes flagged out side of being a competitive player
[edit]

Depot

Ringers are a bad deal in tournament play. Period.

Radix

<!--quoteo(post=1638080:date=Jul 9 2007, 10:56 AM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Jul 9 2007, 10:56 AM) [snapback]1638080[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how are we supposed to get better if we never have to compete against a competitive level Fade/lerk/com?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Good point.

<!--quoteo(post=1638080:date=Jul 9 2007, 10:56 AM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Jul 9 2007, 10:56 AM) [snapback]1638080[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->have you thought of limiting the flagged players to be equal on competing teams<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No, I hadn't, but I am now. =)

<!--quoteo(post=1638235:date=Jul 10 2007, 01:24 PM:name=That_Annoying_Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(That_Annoying_Kid @ Jul 10 2007, 01:24 PM) [snapback]1638235[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you should create specific rules on how a player becomes flagged out side of being a competitive player<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Rules Draft II+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rules Draft II)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>1. Roster Regulations</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<i>Veteran: Any player may join a team.</i>
<b>The Dojo:</b> After long deliberations, we've come to the conclusion that <!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->an acid test of some form is required to separate veterans from the regular everyday people who are interested in our program. It's unfortunate that there's no way to concretely quantify aiming and ambushing, as those are the primary gamebreaking abilities that separate the two<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (this isn't an argument on what's important in organized play, it's a statement of what turns new players off to Veteran).
The purpose of having any roster regulations is to keep the median skill level of the environment high enough to make things interesting, but low enough so that it doesn't turn off prospective applicants to the possibility of future play, or encouraging their friends to try it as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Organized Play Quickstart Guide+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Organized Play Quickstart Guide)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>(5/8) Skill Regulations</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

<!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->If there is a way to concretely quantify the important skills of the game, we haven't found it yet. For that reason, an arbitrary system of "flags" has been implemented to regulate the median skill level of any given team.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> If a player <b>from :this: list</b> plays in a match, they are said to "bring a flag". No team may assemble more than <b>two (2)</b> flags in any given half. For detailed rulings on flags see our full ruleset :here:, but the following should be a good guide by itself:

You are flagged if:
- You have ever played Natural-Selection in CAL, ENSL, or ANSL Veteran
- You are not registered on ANSL <a href="http://ansl.us/teams.php" target="_blank">:here:</a>, or are otherwise difficult to identify
- You appear in the <a href="http://nsdojo.net/fparticle.php?cat=3&sort=0&id=12" target="_blank">:flagged players list:</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If you can figure out a way to concretely distinguish between veterans and regular everyday players without making some kind of a judgment call on the part of the administration, please make a post about it - for the time being though, I don't know how you'd pull it off.

Thanks for all the input so far,
--Radix

enigma

you could probably list all of the good US players without too much trouble

Radix

Right, but I don't think that's what they were asking? I thought it was more along the lines of "give us concrete reasons why we're flagged or unflagged so we can be aware of, and control it" and there's no real feasible way to accomplish that (even though it's desirable) that I can see.

Thansal

Actually, I have an idea for how to flag non competitive players.

When you start this up, only have the vets flagged.

As you build your community I suggest creating a system where members can be nominated to be flagged.

For some one to be nominated XX (1, 2, 3, 5? I dono) regular member(s) of the community (you must have played in at least 1/2/3 skrims?) must put the player's name forward. Possibly require them to not all come from the same team?

A select group of people (admins + some community members on rotation?) review their skrims and decide if they are at the same level as a competitive player.

If the player is not flagged they can not be nominated for XX number of months (to prevent griefing)


This is a rather vague suggestion, but it is something. You could select some core skills (Fading, Lerking, K:D, Comming, I dono) and say that they must be up to snuff in at least XX number of them.


Basically just set up a peer/admin review process for flagging people in the 3rd category.

Radix

That's a good idea, but it still relies on impartial judgment rather than a concrete list of predefined qualities. Honestly, that's OK in my view, as I think it will have the same effective result.

Thansal

yah, skill in NS is not something that can be measured quantitatively, as the only things that can be accurately measured are K:D and W/L. K:D does not mean everything (though it can be a big factor) and W/L is based off of the entire team, not just the one player (a good team can make up for one shoddy player).

so no matter what it will be qualitative, and thus you need to come up with some way of measuring skill that is relatively impartial. That is why I suggested making the people reviewing the players include other players and admins.

Possibly something like:
3 admins
1 Flagged player
1 non-flagged player
Keep these people regularly rotated (possibly have a pool of applicable judges and draw randomly from it for each case).

This way you can't end up with a dead lock, you have 3 people that SHOULD be impartial, and 2 people to give different views on it.

Radix

Yeah - for simplicity's sake I don't think we're going to start out with a voting system, but I really like the idea of letting players at <i>least</i> vote-nominate flags onto people, and your system, though maybe a little rough at this time, is a good start that we're probably going to look into further at a later date.

Thanks.

That_Annoying_Kid

what if competitive players, or pubstars sandbag it for a while to remain unflagged?

I've been playing NS since the it was open to the public, and I'm extremely well versed in gameplay, techtree, what time lifeforms start showing up in the mix, etc. I just have never been in the competitive scene due to being 56.k or no connection at all for the majority of my NS career...

I bet I could come close to getting flagged, but there are still tons of better players than me...

I still can't get what I consider decent bunnyhopping. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />

Thansal

then they wouldn't be worth being flagged, and then they start playing at full skill, and then they are worthy of being flagged, and then are.

simple?

ubermensch

<!--quoteo(post=1637891:date=Jul 8 2007, 06:47 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Jul 8 2007, 06:47 AM) [snapback]1637891[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Too much red tape.
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