Games...

SmoodCrooznSmoodCroozn Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Where is it going?</div>Yea, so it's 2007. PS3, Wii, 360 whatever. Then you have your 512mb video cards, athlon, core duo 2s, starcraft 2s and yada.

But I'm seeing less games about gaming, but now as a tool to do something else. Development costs are going up and fewer games are being made. Some statistics in this video: cost of gaming used to be 40,000 dollars, turned into 10 million in 10 years. 80% of games never make it.

Anyway, well I guess my post is rather computer games or video games, they just suck you out. Time, money, uh, yea.

I guess I want to play a game that's on a board. Something like chess, well a little friendlier. Just to have a good time.

This series makes me look at games as... well a commercial thing now. Not for fun, but to win, to be the best... A future that is about representations than actual reality.

I guess I've been living with the comp, internet, forums so long, that I don't know what's the outside anymore.

[youtube]hpobCDhtXno[/youtube]
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  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1638582:date=Jul 12 2007, 11:06 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Jul 12 2007, 11:06 AM) [snapback]1638582[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Yea, so it's 2007. PS3, Wii, 360 whatever. Then you have your 512mb video cards, athlon, core duo 2s, starcraft 2s and yada.

    But I'm seeing less games about gaming, but now as a tool to do something else. Development costs are going up and fewer games are being made. Some statistics in this video: cost of gaming used to be 40,000 dollars, turned into 10 million in 10 years. 80% of games never make it.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The answer's simple. If you want to see better games, support the good indy games done on a (comparitively) shoestring budget and help the big publishers understand that production values aren't everything.
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1638586:date=Jul 12 2007, 12:30 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Jul 12 2007, 12:30 PM) [snapback]1638586[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    The answer's simple. If you want to see better games, support the good indy games done on a (comparitively) shoestring budget and help the big publishers understand that production values aren't everything.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah I heard of a company called Unknown worlds, they are creating a stand alone game for HL2. Which has the potential to kick every big publisher in the theeth... From what I've seen thus far it looks they are onto something!
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  • Nil_IQNil_IQ Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15520Members
    edited July 2007
    <!--quoteo(post=1638586:date=Jul 12 2007, 05:30 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Jul 12 2007, 05:30 AM) [snapback]1638586[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    The answer's simple. If you want to see better games, support the good indy games done on a (comparitively) shoestring budget and help the big publishers understand that production values aren't everything.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Quite.

    I'm not convinced that there's going to be a "crash" as all the cool kids seem to think these days, but certainly a "depression" of sorts. Developers are going about making games in fundamentally the wrong ways. Its not entirely their fault, if game X has pretty shiny graphics with normal mapping, pretty shadows, cloth and water physics e.t.c then you're going to feel the need to put them in your game in order to compete... even if doing so isn't cost effective. Video game construction techniques have improved hugely in recent years, but we're still working years ahead of what is cost-effective for the most part. The Wii is the only console to make a profit for every unit sold and its graphics so far are less than impressive. <i>That</i> is the level of detail you need to make a profit in the market today, unless you can guarantee you're going to sell a bajillion units of games for your console which <i>loses</i> you money for every one you sell.

    The ray of hope here is, as Crispy said, Indie developers. Defcon, Darwinia, Mount and Blade, Starscape, all independent games, all pretty damn fun. There's even a indie development team that have been working on a full-blown MMOFPS for a while (yes, this has happened before, but this lot are competent) which i'm looking forward to with great anticipation.

    Meh. So long as there are people who play computer games, there will be computer games.
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited July 2007
    this is happening all over the market

    "digicams with less then 7MP are crap statements" yet their sensor will only effectively store 5MP at reasonable iso and noise values, oh well...

    "HD TV camcorders can record photos at HD res" so thats like 3-4MP or something, which is good enough. But they make it sound like a lot more?

    Most new games are flashy but short and very low on content. At least HL2 has the best idea with release episodes (less work then a full fledged game and peeps will buy, not saying they are bad!)

    Gameplay has taken a backseat to the polygon/texture resolution war. Higher detail = more work = more expensive = shorter time to develop games in the same time span...

    wii is winning hands down in term of gameplay innovation and that is the important part so many bigshot companies fail to realise. But then again people will buy their new and flashy games without a decent amount of content, so don't expect anything to change anytime...

    And then there is the multiplayer variant, these games are the most long lasting, I guess developing visuals as priority one could very well work here. As long as the gameplay core is solid enough. And then there is the development the team can still do on it to tweak it here and there to get the best out of it. Mod communityies like these is what gaming is all about. devteam + moddevs = win win situation


    <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->[rant mode off <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> ]<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
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  • PetcoPetco Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18478Members, Constellation
    I think the question is "Why so much focus on super realistically good graphics". Super realistically good graphics = requires more time, money, etc and unnecessary.
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  • Nil_IQNil_IQ Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15520Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1638592:date=Jul 12 2007, 07:03 AM:name=Petco)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petco @ Jul 12 2007, 07:03 AM) [snapback]1638592[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    I think the question is "Why so much focus on super realistically good graphics". Super realistically good graphics = requires more time, money, etc and unnecessary.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Because its the most obvious thing about a game. Its something you can put in trailers, on posters, and on the back of the box. You can't put awesome AI, good gameplay or a compelling story on the back of a box.
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  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    And, believe it or not, Graphics are one of the biggest barriers to entry for people. If they see it as some type of cartoon because the graphics are too unrealistic...well, you know how adults don't like their cartoons <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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  • puzlpuzl The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    The sims and the sims2 reached mass market success with the tradional formula of computer gaming without huge investment in resources. Look at buzz, second life, or any other mass market success. They need to look pretty but they don't need to look realistic. Blizzard understand this better than anyone else, and I hope UWE take it to hearth. People get excited about graphics at the start, but it isn't the graphics that keep them playing. If it was, EQ2 would have more players than Wow. Game players really crave gameplay. Graphics sweeten the deal and help generate hype, but they do not keep players' arses on their seats.
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  • DiscoZombieDiscoZombie Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1638608:date=Jul 12 2007, 11:21 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Jul 12 2007, 11:21 AM) [snapback]1638608[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    The sims and the sims2 reached mass market success with the tradional formula of computer gaming without huge investment in resources. Look at buzz, second life, or any other mass market success. They need to look pretty but they don't need to look realistic. Blizzard understand this better than anyone else, and I hope UWE take it to hearth. People get excited about graphics at the start, but it isn't the graphics that keep them playing. If it was, EQ2 would have more players than Wow. Game players really crave gameplay. Graphics sweeten the deal and help generate hype, but they do not keep players' arses on their seats.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think The Sims franchise becamse so popular because it truly appeals to the casual market and the gamer market, the male market and female market, equally. Most games appeal mostly to young male hardcore gamers. SUCH a tiny market share.
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  • puzlpuzl The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Yeah, I agree, but it illustrates the point that the production values prevalent in some of the hardcore games are not necessary for success. Even look at say, HL2 and CS:S vs BF2, Q3 or Farcry. The clear winner was the source technology, yet the graphics are about half a generation behind.
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  • J!J! NS2 Artist Join Date: 2004-11-14 Member: 32788Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
    edited July 2007
    <!--quoteo(post=1638608:date=Jul 13 2007, 12:51 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Jul 13 2007, 12:51 AM) [snapback]1638608[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    The sims and the sims2 reached mass market success with the tradional formula of computer gaming without huge investment in resources. Look at buzz, second life, or any other mass market success. They need to look pretty but they don't need to look realistic. Blizzard understand this better than anyone else, and I hope UWE take it to hearth. People get excited about graphics at the start, but it isn't the graphics that keep them playing. If it was, EQ2 would have more players than Wow. Game players really crave gameplay. Graphics sweeten the deal and help generate hype, but they do not keep players' arses on their seats.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You have no idea how much I agree with everything you just said here, especially the point about Blizzard.
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