A Call To Euro Pubbers!
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Join Date: 2003-04-16 Member: 15558Members
Join Date: 2003-04-16 Member: 15558Members
<div class="IPBDescription">ns is dieing!!!</div>Hi.
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(This thread is NOT suited for the competative forums as it is aimed at pubbers.)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
For almost two years, the competative scene have moaned about NS dieing. It's sort of held together a bit and is slowly dwindling away.
It pisses me off though, I see so many people playing public on a dailey basis! Clearly these people enjoy NS.
So I just want to hear from these loyal public players.. why do you not want to form clans and help the competative scene?<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />?
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<!--coloro:#006600--><span style="color:#006600"><!--/coloro-->my arguement before you reply.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
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º If LOTS of people just made good sized teams, it only calls for say 3-4 clan wars a week and the comp scene would be thriving!!
º If the comp scene was thriving, it would introduce more public servers and encourage clanners from other games to try NS again. Circle of growth sort of thing.
º So many public players easily have the skill level to compete in a competative organised game but avoid it for reasons (they've told me) they wont do anything about...
º We have a brilliant league system now, the ENSL is greatly developed and fully functioning and just WAITING for more teams to sign up...
I'm really down about it.
So many of us competative players leave because the scene is so low in activity. We have plenty of servers knocking about and IRC is well easy to organise the games on!! Especially with #ns.search.
<!--coloro:#FFCC00--><span style="color:#FFCC00"><!--/coloro-->If games like DoD can have such an active competative scene.. why can't NS?!!
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> I know its a far less complex game, but the fun levels are no-where near <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />.
<!--coloro:#FF6600--><span style="color:#FF6600"><!--/coloro-->P.S. (anyone willing to start, join, or simply find out about ns clanning, please PM me)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FF6600--><span style="color:#FF6600"><!--/coloro-->
(This thread is NOT suited for the competative forums as it is aimed at pubbers.)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
For almost two years, the competative scene have moaned about NS dieing. It's sort of held together a bit and is slowly dwindling away.
It pisses me off though, I see so many people playing public on a dailey basis! Clearly these people enjoy NS.
So I just want to hear from these loyal public players.. why do you not want to form clans and help the competative scene?<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />?
_
<!--coloro:#006600--><span style="color:#006600"><!--/coloro-->my arguement before you reply.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
_
º If LOTS of people just made good sized teams, it only calls for say 3-4 clan wars a week and the comp scene would be thriving!!
º If the comp scene was thriving, it would introduce more public servers and encourage clanners from other games to try NS again. Circle of growth sort of thing.
º So many public players easily have the skill level to compete in a competative organised game but avoid it for reasons (they've told me) they wont do anything about...
º We have a brilliant league system now, the ENSL is greatly developed and fully functioning and just WAITING for more teams to sign up...
I'm really down about it.
So many of us competative players leave because the scene is so low in activity. We have plenty of servers knocking about and IRC is well easy to organise the games on!! Especially with #ns.search.
<!--coloro:#FFCC00--><span style="color:#FFCC00"><!--/coloro-->If games like DoD can have such an active competative scene.. why can't NS?!!
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> I know its a far less complex game, but the fun levels are no-where near <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />.
<!--coloro:#FF6600--><span style="color:#FF6600"><!--/coloro-->P.S. (anyone willing to start, join, or simply find out about ns clanning, please PM me)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Comments
So I wouldn't play and improve that good/much due to tiredness and lack of practice, but that's what I'd expect from me and my clanmates to become succesful.
I guess the usual clanner attitude (stereotyping alert!!1) isn't quite attracting to some people, too, although a little drama is always fun to watch <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
lack of time and reliability. I work, amd gone alot to friend so I lack time. I am unreliable cause if friends ask me to come when I am in the middle of a match, I split and go. For pub this is doable, but I don't think a clan would like if there teammember, hell perhaps even there comm, desides to split.
I dunno if ppl still want me in a clan, but like this its not ever gona happen if they want to or not. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I am unreliable cause if friends ask me to come when I am in the middle of a match, I split and go. For pub this is doable, but I don't think a clan would like if there teammember, hell perhaps even there comm, desides to split.
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not if your teammates are your friends
On a more honest note:
1. I play quite late, generally outside of good PCW time.
2. I actually tend to enjoy the game more when both teams are able to make, and recover from, mistakes. Both totally owning & being owned bore me a little.
3. An unfortunate cycle this one. A lot of the players I would choose to clan with, given the opportunity, also avoid the scene, which makes me avoid the scene. This is a cyclic argument, I know, don't bother telling me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
- Shockwave
- To play with friends (everyone has their servers that they frequent)
- Teamwork
- Organization
- Strategic depth
All of which are readily available in vast quantities within a clanning environment. It is unfortunate that most choose not to experience because they see it as coming at the expensive of fun. That and with the small size of the competitive scene it makes it hard to find teams actively searching for a PCW. Often the most active teams are the better ones who are seeking #practice to maintain their skill, and naturally a team of new players isn't in a rush to jump into bed with them. I also think the label competitive is highly misleading, it sounds very serious, almost intimidating.
I am hoping this situation will fix itself once NS2 arrives.
There seems to be this common misconception that clan play is less fun than joining a public server. However what strikes me the most about public players is that a large percentage seem to want the following:
- To play with friends (everyone has their servers that they frequent) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are many "clanners" who are real ######. This gives the idea of a team of "friends" a real bad name as these same people smurf over and over again leading pubbers to believe that ALL people who are good at NS are ######s, when in fact there's only a handful. Adding on to that, the disappearence (in general) of clan-servers makes it difficult to join any sort of clan (I was able to join FAT and LoC because both had servers and I was a regular there).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Teamwork<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Teamwork is great and all, but as many people on these boards point out, players are accustumed to anti-vannila-NS. They don't know what to do, and many more competetive players don't have a high tolerence for mistakes. This usually results in the newer player getting cussed at for being bad and or not knowing what is going on.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Organization<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the above two cover this as well.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Strategic depth<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again the low tolerence of newbies in this game makes it hard for people who "pub it up" to really enjoy a competetive game of NS.
I think one of the biggest hinderences of competetive NS is "getting involved" especially with how there are players that give it such a bad name. In addition, I feel that programs like this and the Dojo which emphasize helping newer players really are a good step in teh right direction, and I wish you (the original poster) the best of luck!
It's damned hard to stay frustrated and mad at someone who makes it readily know he/she wants to improve and want your help to do it.
In my experience, clans can play 1-3 pcw's a week and sometimes go a few weeks without playing, as long as they play SOMETIMES they will eventually improve?.. It doesn't all need to be serious, you just need people on the same wavelength as you to form a clan.
The thing is:
If more clans were around, they wouldn't need to be active to keep the scene active!!!!!! Abundance is the answer! <3
However, if you do feel you might be laughed at, or whined at until you leave for being "ololpubbar", then what I wrote is an easy solution. The only really, if you don't feel you have the courage or will to go through a few teams until you find your lot.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
in counter-strike, if that time is >5mins you just search for a new opponent.
also what Ots said- the experience gap means new teams will get their asses handed to them unless there's enough new teams to form their own mini league.
this isn't the first time someone's tried to recruit a bunch of new players, and whilst i say fair play for putting in the effort- it's doomed to failure. anyone who wants to try scrims has done it by now; other players are playing more modern games like Quake Wars.
Tom you just scare all the new players off by shouting at them in mixes and gathers.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
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Didn't you hear, he doesn't rage anymore! I swear! :roll:
I for one hate the current train of thought that comp ppl have in EU(dno for US), that there is nothing wrong with keeping ppl waiting to start the pcw/match. You could expect that in WoW preEXP with 40ppl raids, but with 6 ppl, come on.
And this isnt the first time LUMP(TOM LUV YA), is doing thing like this, remember pitchfork for example. So yeah, its possible? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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lol
NS tactics and strategy is far far behind many other, more successful, games. There has been no reason to improve on them and come up with new.
most other games are just, run forward, camp, kill, PLANT ZE BOMB.
It applies to pubbers wanting to make a clan AND already competative players who are maybe struggling to be active.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=57836948784802200&showtopic=102008" target="_blank">How To Make Your Clan Live</a>
It doesn't produce immediate results, that's down to concentration, but it does keep the games coming in and if more teams attempted this, life would be easier.
Minor changes always there and can make a large difference.
Do people ever stop taking random ideas that have nothing to do with anything out of what other people have said?
Coming from MrBen the first leader to develope a MC first strat properly in europe. (that I knew of, bP apparantly did something similar).
Minor changes always there and can make a large difference.
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Nigeria Please, MC tactics have been used by many different teams over the years. Hell, by 2.01 even KfS used an MC first strat regularly with success.
When it comes to analyzing the tactical depth of NS, you have one major problem: you need to factor in skill levels. While in CS you have these extremely skilled teams pulling of crazy complicated stuff every match, because they're playing it at a ridiculously high level. In NS things are quite different, even back when activity was peaking during 2.01 most teams didn't even rival mediocre CS teams in dedication, and just like Ben pointed out: even the best teams rarely transcend cookie cutter strategies and tactics.
Certainly there have been clever "breakthroughs" like the 1.04 JPHMG rush, 2.01 DC rush and the 3.0 early Lerk domination strategies, but these are simple stratagems, possibly comparable to SK style saveouts, 1.3 noscope awping and fakes in CS. Another possible comparison to make is Starcraft (watch some boxer movies or replays and prepare to be amazed), which is just simply on an entirely different level than anything ever done in competitive NS. If NS had a bigger player base, it's very possible we'd see that kind of plays, or on the other hand it's possible it would've just turned out to be a skill limiting game (something I've suspected for a long time).
Sorry about mixing the terms strategy and tactics all over the place -- hopefully you'll still understand the point I'm trying to make.
I'm not however sure it is something to be entirely proud of. The early lerk domination of 3.0 lead to clutch players on whom teams relied on soley. Whilst I don't want to insult them, flatline are the perfect example of how the impact of one player can dramatically alter the entire teams ability. We all know of teams with nothing but a joke of a marine round and yet strong alien rounds because of certain individuals, and we all know how quickly their alien rounds crumble when they are killed early. Whereas before no one could imagine fading without regen or carapace, now who can imagine an early game without a lerk or fading with celerity. We've grown to rely on them. Our strategies lack depth, they're barely even map specific, we come to rely on the impact of upgrades we've grown used to and a few key players in certain roles who can make up for the inabilities of others and a lack of coherent strategy itself.
marines don't have complex tactics because there's strength in numbers, and there's not a lot you can do with 5 grunts. also, the pace of NS means everything can change in a few seconds. some people on the forums like to suggest formations and stuff but that's just not practical.
the only (good) marine team that would use small squads/rambos- thus giving them more options as they aren't restricted to Squad Capper and Squad Fragger- were Saunamen; but against an alien team with good co-ordination, more often then not that lone shotgunner holding CAT by himself or heading to Satcom to spawn camp would fall to a skulk or two.
as for creating the MC tactic- any simpleton would have realised that MC is the best chamber as soon as they realised what the lerk pancake (and silent skulk) could do. remember prior to v2 no-one knew about the pancake, and skulks would still make noise even with the silence upgrade (even though you had to pay 2 res for the privilege)
There are plenty of viable tactics which are map specific from node rushing to DCs first. Like I said though, NS isn't about strategic depth but reliance on what we've grown used to. There is no need to experiment with your rounds because your opponent will not, why risking a round with a new strategy when you have a perfectly good one you know will challenge your opponents. The transfer to MC does show there is depth to be used beyond what nodes to drop at the start of the round, it is just not needed right now. Not to mention new strategies may require the entire teams participation, MCs first are so powerful that a few individuals alone can raise the entire team from mediocrity to premier league just through the strength of their performances in alien rounds.
No-one else used mc so abundantly because regen/carra fades where heavily relied on for defending hives. Also the ambush style skulking for carra was more effective than the speed/silence skulking when facing hmg's...
And Ben. people only caught on when upgrades were free, I remember Team UK abusing SC a lot as soon as this development happened and we won A LOT of games with SC.. sort of a piss take.
I think overall NS strat does have depth, especially considering how long the game has been around for.. a game that has been played for long is always OBVIOUSLY going to have a more developed tactical range.. but NS is getting that way as time goes on.
When you consider the structure and positional involvement of NS along side the tech routes for NS and generic rules of thumb, the game becomes much deeper..
The learning curve is steep for a reason yall.