Makeshift Barricades
Timmythemoonpig
Join Date: 2003-11-08 Member: 22407Members
Join Date: 2003-11-08 Member: 22407Members
I've just been playing a few hours of the new HL2 mod 'zombie master'. What struck me was, because of the hl2 engine, i.e. manipulative objects, people very quickly starting grabbing random debris, boxes, etc and forming makeshift barriers to hold back or stall the tides of zombies..
Its just an idea but perhaps debris could be left around the maps that could be stacked up and welded together to form temporary barricades, I use the word temporary because if they were permanent they could possibly change the gameplay too much. Likewise the aliens should be able to tear down the barricades by attacking them.
I don't know how hard something like that would be to code into the game though.
Its just an idea but perhaps debris could be left around the maps that could be stacked up and welded together to form temporary barricades, I use the word temporary because if they were permanent they could possibly change the gameplay too much. Likewise the aliens should be able to tear down the barricades by attacking them.
I don't know how hard something like that would be to code into the game though.
Comments
And not only that, what if you needed a new marine structure? The nano factory? The marines build the parts they need for various parts of the map with some res they have collected. Need a bridge? Build it. Need a vent closed? Build it. Need a part for an engine? Build it. Then marines would have to deal with trying to carry and protect the object to where they want it, then take the time to install it.
Building barricades with the debris around the map may only be the beginning of what is possible!
Great idea! More please!
Repair generator to switch on lights in the dark rooms. (like in ns_hera)
Repair the old ceiling turrets controlpanel to reactivate it. (ceiling turrets like in HL1 or HL2)
Repair the elevator to get on the next level. (like in ns_lost)
Get the starbase medical center online. So in some corridors there should be some first aid stations functioning, to heal your self up.
Pump down water, get back the atmospheric pressure, or the artificial gravity, etc..
So. Some is already exist in some NS1 maps. But we need more of these.
And also very good ideas from CanadianWilverine, the build things if you need one.
Like he said bridges, walls, doors..
And what should the aliens have for a balance? They will have the infestation thing. It going to fail the human computers, lights, and other systems. The corridors will be dark and hostile for human presence.
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I LOVE this idea! The game begs for it, as do I.
And not only that, what if you needed a new marine structure? The nano factory? The marines build the parts they need for various parts of the map with some res they have collected. Need a bridge? Build it. Need a vent closed? Build it. Need a part for an engine? Build it. Then marines would have to deal with trying to carry and protect the object to where they want it, then take the time to install it.
Building barricades with the debris around the map may only be the beginning of what is possible!
Great idea! More please!
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Well said.
<b>vote <!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
A game-breaking setup takes only one really great combination of trash welded together in a certain order.
That, and there's only so many uses for trash: to block vents, to block passages, to block lifeforms, to create a make-shift barrier or shield, to block a window, etc. How much fun was the "let me drop a CC here in this passageway to block" element from NS? Now imagine that times like 10, not to mention the server load (which I think would be high regardless of this feature or not).
Trash does not have a place in NS2, b/c the nanites should eat/clean it =D. If nanites can gobble my RT, proto and shotgun--then it can #$%# well eat trash too. =D
Oh and fades? Remember my e_poly clip idea for blink?
A game-breaking setup takes only one really great combination of trash welded together in a certain order.
That, and there's only so many uses for trash: to block vents, to block passages, to block lifeforms, to create a make-shift barrier or shield, to block a window, etc. How much fun was the "let me drop a CC here in this passageway to block" element from NS? Now imagine that times like 10, not to mention the server load (which I think would be high regardless of this feature or not).
Trash does not have a place in NS2, b/c the nanites should eat/clean it =D. If nanites can gobble my RT, proto and shotgun--then it can #$%# well eat trash too. =D <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree, structure blocking is lame because it can be done instantly, if a marine has to find and weld a bunch of stuff together that's not going to happen very quickly.
Yes to charge/ram for skulks/fades/onos and yes to weldable trash barricades. It sounds it could add a good dynamic element to the map and would be good atmosphere builder for marines to wait in anticipation as the aliens pound their makeshift barricade, more pieces flying off with each successively louder crash.
I particularily remember trying to hide behind the wreckage of a car and being crushed and killed by my cover when the ant lion charged and smashed into it.
I suspect this may happen to poor marine sods when battling an Onos, unless time is taken to weld objects into place, so that they must instead be broken apart. Otherwise, just putting an object there may be just providing the Onos with more objects to bash in the marines direction.
Heck, that may even become a mini game for the Onos, Marine Pinball / Bowling-Ball.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
what about before the aliens get an onos though?
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That's why I think skulks and fades should also be able to ram these barricades, but to a lesser effect. Something like 2 skulks ram = 1 fade ram, 2 fade ram = 1 onos ram.
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Nah, just implement the e_poly blink I keep suggesting and fades will be able to fly right on in and out at will with no restrictions. The point of investing time into making this barricade is that it would mean that only fades and onii could come through it, and not lesser lifeforms.
(perhaps with the exception of bile bomb)
if done properly, this would be fun. (barracades.. not barrel skulking...)
Nah, just implement the e_poly blink I keep suggesting and fades will be able to fly right on in and out at will with no restrictions. The point of investing time into making this barricade is that it would mean that only fades and onii could come through it, and not lesser lifeforms.
(perhaps with the exception of bile bomb)
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Well the goal is to avoid making barricades unbeatable by lower life forms since it's going to be a tactic available early game. Maybe infestation can slowly eat away at the barricade until it collapses.
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Nah, remember NS is based on resource and map control? If you have everybody building and welding up a barricade, who the hell is grabbing resources? Those 2-3 experienced players who are getting mauled by packs or skulks with lerk and gorge support? *######* Oops, you're dead. As long as NS2 stays (or hopefully increases) strongly teambased over solo rambo-ish and RTS as much as it is FPS then it won't be an issue at all.
Think of it this way:
As long as the time and labor resources are inferior enough to getting control of the map and getting those resource nodes.
As long as the individual, no matter how skilled, is inferior to might of good teamwork
You will NOT want to do an early barricade, because a smart alien team as soon as figuring that's what the marines are doing will just go and grab resources and rush fades. Then marines will be low on resources against an alien team with a massive tech edge from plentiful resources.
... or let's say if a marine team organized into offensive squads and has one guy stay back and slowly build the barricade and then buy him a large quantity of time to build unhindered, then they deserve a reward for their investment, yes?
That's how I see this being balanced as: a way to buy more time, possibly for a mid-late to late game comeback or at least a nice epic feel of holding out to the last man. That teamplay fun of the "never surrender" resistance of you and a few buddies against a mass hoard of pissed aliens.
Nah, remember NS is based on resource and map control? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> Barricades would help you gain map control substantially. That's the idea; you're denying access to an enemy. A barricade lock down would be even more boring than a TF lockdown of a chokepoint if the aliens had to wait to get onos to take it down.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You will NOT want to do an early barricade, because a smart alien team as soon as figuring that's what the marines are doing will just go and grab resources and rush fades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why completely rule out this strategy? I'd rather make a barricade rush viable but risky early game rather than impossible.
Is early MT impossible because the aliens will tear through your lack of armor or dance around your lack of phase gates? Is rushing AA impossible for the same reasons? No, they're all possible, it's a matter of how much your team has trained with the various strategies to know their strengths/weaknesses as well as the alien teams expected responses.
A skulk with celerity and carapace using leap would impact with a LOT of force- it'd be like being sacked by a linebacker from the NFL!
A Gorge should be able to pick up pieces and toss them aside to help disassemble a barrier. A fade should be able to shatter welds with his swipe. An onos should be able to gore large holes into it and, once it has charge, simply smash thru if it isn't built well enough, sending pieces (and marines) flying into walls and other marines.
Here's what I'll say:
Counters need to be based on teamwork
Counters need to be based on practiced knowledge
Counters need to be based on physics
Counters need to show some degree of respect to the time and labor marines spent building the barricade.
Hopefully we can all agree on those points.
QFT.
QFT.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->QFT to that whole post hopefully not just the first sentence! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
A Gorge should be able to pick up pieces and toss them aside to help disassemble a barrier.
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<b>Love that idea. Makeshift Barricades is a wicked idea. </b> I love the joy of blocking a window or a door with a desk in HL2 DM, and shooting out from behind it. Until someone fires the desk back at you or chucks a grenade in. Barricades shouldn't be permanent; they should fall down bit by bit as welds break from alien attacks (I mean an alien can eat through armour so why shouldn't they break welds?). I would like to see boxes being moveable as well.
I am wondering though, what would barricades be made out of? Do they still have desks in space? Or would the commander give out armour plates that could be picked up and welded to walls.
I have however been on a (very silly) HL2 DM server where it was possible to spawn random stuff and tie it together with a rope command, 3 guys sealed themselves in a house and no one else could get in. This was mainly because there was no other way to destroy the ropes.
Barricades would be cool, but only if they are "realistic" in the sense of scared marines doing whatever they can to escape death, rather than a bunch of giddy marines in a sandbox playing with their toys oblivious to the world around them. It'd be turret farms all over again.