Just having new & more comfortable waypoints and all these things we all said should be just easier for a commander <b>in FFA</b>.Specially if this comm has no microphone.
<!--quoteo(post=1645926:date=Aug 27 2007, 08:26 PM:name=BCSeph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BCSeph @ Aug 27 2007, 08:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1645926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Vote <b>NO</b> to <b>Automating the commander experience</b> and <b>having stats</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Automating the commander experience: Agree here that automation is bad for two reasons. 1) It would be boring to be the COM and 2) it would reduce the required skill, but you need to define what you mean by automation. Being able to do basic things like queue the next upgrade so that you did not have to weight for the next 5 RES to tick in is not really automation. Nor is creating upgrade packs (jp+hmg+weld) that you can drop onto a selected marine and as soon as they are in range of the relevant buildings they get the items. However, getting able to cue all upgrades in a set order and have it so its free range on the armoury for all players is automation. Between the too extremes is grey so where do you want to draw the line? Certainly the hot keys were an improvement on v1 but they are not automation.
STATS Why no to stats? We acknowledge the kills and deaths. Really if its important to you then the players can manually count! Far too often the real team players who spend their time welding and building and following orders get lower kills. A stats page may encourage players to not be noobs and that is good.
When i suggested the idea of <b>Commander Rank</b>,
- Ranks go from -10 to 10, starting at 0 - It'd be a permanent stat, that you get experiance in by other players votes on your commanding. - It'll be VERY hard to get above even 8 CR.
I think its a lovely idea, to let people know how good a commander are. Or alternatively how bad.
Let them eject a -5 commander who sells bases and ######s around.
<!--quoteo(post=1646220:date=Aug 29 2007, 05:45 AM:name=Stars)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stars @ Aug 29 2007, 05:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646220"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When i suggested the idea of <b>Commander Rank</b>,
- Ranks go from -10 to 10, starting at 0 - It'd be a permanent stat, that you get experiance in by other players votes on your commanding. - It'll be VERY hard to get above even 8 CR.
I think its a lovely idea, to let people know how good a commander are. Or alternatively how bad.
Let them eject a -5 commander who sells bases and ######s around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although I agree with this idea in principle in practice it would be a bad idea. Why? Abuse
I have COM'ed <i>and</i> been a player where the marines have lost, not because the Aliens played well, because guiding the marine team was like herding cats. The COM's order where not followed by the majority of the team who RAMBO or hug spawn demanding wanted toys but getting and maintaining the RES points to get them etc. Yet despite it being the players fault the COM gets the blame. Of course there was also a few that knew what happened and voice this but then the NOOB ratio is high your COM rank would go down regardless.
Any player assigned ranks, <b> if ever implemented</b>, should only be viewable to the player who gave it and not everyone else. Also if you get a low ranking because you are new, ejected each time because you try to COM, how would you ever improve?
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
how about button, you click it and, you type in a number say - 60
then if you have 60 res or more, marines will be automatically med'd / ammo'd at the same rate as resupplying in combat(so it can't be used to waste commanders res) - but only when requested so there won;t be med'ing someone that knows they will die and doesnt want to be med'd.
Once the res drops below 60 ( if med'ing/ammo'ing caused it to or if commander built a structure) then the auto resupply stops until res is over 60 again - or the comm can type in a new number.
The comm can always med as normal whether its turned on or off, however requests will only show until they are automatically forefilled.
<!--quoteo(post=1646440:date=Aug 30 2007, 04:27 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Aug 30 2007, 04:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646440"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how about button, you click it and, you type in a number say - 60
then if you have 60 res or more, marines will be automatically med'd / ammo'd at the same rate as resupplying in combat(so it can't be used to waste commanders res) - but only when requested so there won;t be med'ing someone that knows they will die and doesnt want to be med'd.
Once the res drops below 60 ( if med'ing/ammo'ing caused it to or if commander built a structure) then the auto resupply stops until res is over 60 again - or the comm can type in a new number.
The comm can always med as normal whether its turned on or off, however requests will only show until they are automatically forefilled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know custom servers had a mod, that when you place meds/ammo near a building. They got stored. (This was simply cos they couldnt do it any other way) Basically what this did, is let the commander buy ammo/meds and then when a marine requests they instantly got it.
But i think this is a bad idea. Meds and ammo dropping is a big part of commanding. dont make it automated.
<!--quoteo(post=1645739:date=Aug 27 2007, 12:59 PM:name=Stars)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stars @ Aug 27 2007, 12:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1645739"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This would solve sucky commanders. Hopping in the chair and not knowing what theyre doing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This unfortunately wouldn't solve the problem since you're assuming there is always a good commander on the server and that they are on the marines side AND that they are happy to keep jumping in the chair.
Sometimes "sucky commanders" have to jump in the chair, and to be honest without them getting the opportunity to the talent pool for commanders is going to continue to dry up. More needs to be done to help new commanders as it IS a daunting experience, especially for those that aren't considered good and perhaps don't get as much of a chance to learn how to comm because of more experienced people feeling they have to comm.
That said I agree with Sherpa, there's no need to dilute the overall experience either, that level of complexity can't be dumbed down at its highest skill level.
<!--quoteo(post=1646462:date=Aug 30 2007, 08:08 PM:name=niaccurshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(niaccurshi @ Aug 30 2007, 08:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646462"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This unfortunately wouldn't solve the problem since you're assuming there is always a good commander on the server and that they are on the marines side AND that they are happy to keep jumping in the chair.
Sometimes "sucky commanders" have to jump in the chair, and to be honest without them getting the opportunity to the talent pool for commanders is going to continue to dry up. More needs to be done to help new commanders as it IS a daunting experience, especially for those that aren't considered good and perhaps don't get as much of a chance to learn how to comm because of more experienced people feeling they have to comm.
That said I agree with Sherpa, there's no need to dilute the overall experience either, that level of complexity can't be dumbed down at its highest skill level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep.
But as i said before - there should be a commander simulator with bots, where you have to complete certain tasks. So atleast the bad commanders wil know what to do.
Dont remove medding/ammoing as this is a big part of the commanding experience. It keeps comms involved with the fight. Also, just look at BF2, most people are "stat-######" who just play the game to get kills and not use actual teamplay. Think of stats as RFK times 10.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1646462:date=Aug 30 2007, 08:08 PM:name=niaccurshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(niaccurshi @ Aug 30 2007, 08:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646462"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That said I agree with Sherpa, there's no need to dilute the overall experience either, that level of complexity can't be dumbed down at its highest skill level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. Don't dilute it, but make it so that it is easy enough for a first time comm to get by with the basics, and possibly even win. But also leave enough room for an experienced commander to take advantage of some special features. YOu know like some RTS games, they have a team/race that is easy to use, and well balanced which is good for new players, but then there is a complex team/race which is not so balanced, but can beat the balanced team through experience/multi management and unique special skills. How this would be done in NS *shrug* Perhaps a button to switch between normal and advanced views / menus. the normal one gives more tips and perhaps does some things for the commander - but the advanced gives the comm full control.
Personally I would like to see the commander and marines become slightly less co-dependent. Currently neither group can achieve anything without the other, which means that each group will naturally have high expectations of the other. When you then take into account that the marines severely out-number the commander, it becomes easier to see where the intense pressure comes from.
I'm talking about things like giving marines more (not total) control over their own upgrades, and giving the commander other (less desirable or perhaps riskier) ways to proceed when players are refusing to build.
I've gotten worse at yelling @ coms (with suggestions) as I've gotten more knowledgeable about strats and the game in general. Everyone thinks I'm raging at them, but in reality, I just want the team to win in the most effective way possible...
So ya, decreasing the dependence--I think--would be a good thing. Good players need access to decent weapons, even if the com isn't aware of the fact :x. I think if the single change of 'rine gets resource points by pwning alien structures, lifeforms and building nanite things' got implemented, then the game would have a lot less rage in it. If a player didn't get the weapon they needed to pwn aliens with, then he'd only have himself to blame for not building, killing and wiping the floor with alien blood.
The amount of rage that is currently generated towards a com is just..CRAZY. And the bad thing is, is that a lot of players don't even know how -bad- the com really is, so they don't eject him [mostly b/c no one else will com]. Nor does anyone else know how to com. The usability quotient for com'ing certainly does need to increase, but without dumbing it down or automating it.
And in other news, everyone enjoying NS because of it's distance to CS cries at such ideas.
Seriously, the commander being "all powerful" on the marine side is what makes this game so different to almost everything else out there, we don't need to dumb this game down, what we need to do is provide more opportunities to comm, comm training (as Stars has said I think) with bots, and smooth out the asthetics so that it isn't so complicated for 1st timers.
If we still can't get comm's into the game after trying a few of these ideas for helping newbie comm's then maybe it should begin to be considered to dumb down the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1647809:date=Sep 7 2007, 02:45 AM:name=niaccurshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(niaccurshi @ Sep 7 2007, 02:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1647809"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And in other news, everyone enjoying NS because of it's distance to CS cries at such ideas.
Seriously, the commander being "all powerful" on the marine side is what makes this game so different to almost everything else out there, we don't need to dumb this game down, what we need to do is provide more opportunities to comm, comm training (as Stars has said I think) with bots, and smooth out the asthetics so that it isn't so complicated for 1st timers.
If we still can't get comm's into the game after trying a few of these ideas for helping newbie comm's then maybe it should begin to be considered to dumb down the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Commanding SHOULD be complicated and confusing for first timers. Players should get training offline first to aquire a "commading certificate".
Not to mention, commanding is the main reason why i play NS. I'm an rts player. If it was dumbed down, i may get bored. Actually thats not true, but still.
Keep commanding as an intense and full on experiance.
It would be nice if NS2 commanding would spend less time micro managing, and more time developing strategy etc... I have a few pet peaves when it comes to the little things, but overall the commanding experience imo should stay the same.
One thing i hate is... alot of the time ( may just be me ) My view is over the base for far too long, For example, scanning, To scan every time in between meds ammo and other things, You need to go all the way to your base click the obs then click back on the map where u want to scan and then click again.
One of the ideas suggested in here about clicking and dragging the buttons making little shortcuts that can stay on your HUD is such a huge improvement (Instead of going back to base to click the obs to scan again, you just click the little shortcut you made earlier), This could work for anything too... Click and drag the armor upgrades weapon upgrades up there then when you get the message theyre done you just click on the next one with no second thought at all... and no time spent away from covering your marines or developing your strategy. Personally, This idea should be taken very seriously... it'd be so nice and I think would encourage commanding.
Visually, Slick, easy to hit buttons if i need to actually click something, the more screen i see the better.
As for stuff like being able to see through a marines eyes, sounds awesome, but... If it takes too much of the commanders screen or... makes me unable to do anything while i view it, then I probobly wouldn't use it unless it was some rare occasion that a marine wanted to show me something that I couldnt see due to the map being weird or w/e.
Edit: Stats and rankings are a waste of time imo, discourages new people from ever trying for fear of failing or getting ejected off the bat. Just overall ruins the experience.
And as for way points, theyre still an effective way for the commander to issue orders, especially if that commander does not have a mic, However for the marine if the icon was pushed up or made to show only on the minimap/map as its too big for me even on 1440x900 when playing as marine. It might encourage people who get way points to go to them and remove it, but sometimes the commander puts them in weird places and never removes them, and even while going to the way point its annoying.
Commanding SHOULD be complicated and confusing for first timers. Players should get training offline first to aquire a "commading certificate".
Not to mention, commanding is the main reason why i play NS. I'm an rts player. If it was dumbed down, i may get bored. Actually thats not true, but still.
Keep commanding as an intense and full on experiance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not saying make the act of comming less complicated, I'm saying make the interface less confusing, or more accurately more intuitive.
Ok UI rescale option, wow and second life both have these, they also support wide screen. and both use lua from memorie.
I would like to see a whine noob icon to brand little ######es, from their if they still dont do as they are told double clicking their whiner icon would give their marine avatar a small zap, maybe some health lost and a HUD shack.
Timer clock face icons like wow would be semi ok. I dont think queing up upgrades is fair. I turely hate the idea of queing up weapons in a structure.
Dont take away from the com XP, but he also needs some twitch play medding is fine in that way so is cat packs and scans. i wouldnt go as far as game breaking like droping a CC to block a onos retreat, but they need something some interactivity with the map and surounding that if excuted might change the play of the game, but not if the enamy is skilled enough. droping a CC to block a onos retreat is over kill, but prahaps droping something he can duck jump over wouldnt be so bad. temp ceailing gun toggle at main base, if broken requries repair. prahaps doors can be pre emtivly opened and closed from top down com view, unless door is infested. would anoy kharra and stream line TSA movement.
I like the idea of marines or squads being informed with a color HUD boarder aura if the com is over head, looking directly at them or working with there selected squad, it lets you know yoru under the wing, that you can do stupid stuff with less risk.
Multi lvl maps please nstr2, with a multi cam/lvl camera, I second meds and stucc being droped 2 feet from ground as not to get snaged on roof objects.
As a kharra regular i am continously ticked that for hte first 10 players rines must get one more its unfair they have a com. thats bull ###### and people know it, a good com is worth 2-3 men. and honoustly dont think the chair needs to be dumbed down or made easy. what it ssounds like most of these people are wanting is a chair you can jump in drop 4 buildsing jump out build those 4 buildsing que up upgrades, grab a shotie like the rest of your team then catch up to them in the map. <THIS IS NOT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE. com has more power than most of them let on
hum the only other thing i can think of it for upgrades, a com can select a upgrade from the structure and play a game of tetris to speed up the upgrade the better he plays time off the upgrade begins to shave.
I think power couplinks need to be implimented and rez/tf elec needs a couplink near by, and spawn needs a power gen, if power gen is damage zaping begins to fail or go on the fritz, micro managing power could also add to another lvl of intencity and emertion for the com.
Thats a few hud suggestions and a few twitch/jobs/fun for coms to get into.
As second com chair seat, for power micro management and tetris upgrade could be fun, as well as seeing what the com is doing, also provides two main base defenders, A musical com chair effect, safe in com chair, com drops structure jump out build jump back in second seat safe in com chair.
<!--quoteo(post=1648704:date=Sep 11 2007, 06:39 AM:name=NEX9)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NEX9 @ Sep 11 2007, 06:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would like to see a whine noob icon to brand little ######es, from their if they still dont do as they are told double clicking their whiner icon would give their marine avatar a small zap, maybe some health lost and a HUD shack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree with this, it is a sure fire way for a Commander to get voted out. Offer rewards for good team play, not punishments for "noob" behavior, even though what is "noob" is totally arbitrary from one player to the next. Incentives are much better for teaching new players than abusing them and scaring them away from the game. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Timer clock face icons like wow would be semi ok. I dont think queing up upgrades is fair. I turely hate the idea of queing up weapons in a structure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why do you hate weapons chosen and picked up by the marines so? It could prove a huge benifit to making sure a weapon got to its intended marine, no more grief in that regard. I'm not even sure you are reading the same posts I was, it wasn't a que, it was permission to load out with very clear limits. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dont take away from the com XP, but he also needs some twitch play medding is fine in that way so is cat packs and scans. i wouldnt go as far as game breaking like droping a CC to block a onos retreat, but they need something some interactivity with the map and surounding that if excuted might change the play of the game, but not if the enamy is skilled enough. droping a CC to block a onos retreat is over kill, but prahaps droping something he can duck jump over wouldnt be so bad. temp ceailing gun toggle at main base, if broken requries repair. prahaps doors can be pre emtivly opened and closed from top down com view, unless door is infested. would anoy kharra and stream line TSA movement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The comm needs twitch game play? I disagree, the comm is the RTS component to the marines, that is its strength, more progress in that regards would greater benefit the experience. The closest a marine Commander should come to twitch game play would be hacking and controling aspects of the map to create a temp trap or temp block so retreating marines have a chance. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As a kharra regular i am continously ticked that for hte first 10 players rines must get one more its unfair they have a com. thats bull ###### and people know it, a good com is worth 2-3 men. and honoustly dont think the chair needs to be dumbed down or made easy. what it ssounds like most of these people are wanting is a chair you can jump in drop 4 buildsing jump out build those 4 buildsing que up upgrades, grab a shotie like the rest of your team then catch up to them in the map. <THIS IS NOT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE. com has more power than most of them let on<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Kharaa regular, eh? Do I sense some marine hate? Perhaps a desire to make Commanding harder, not more new player friendly?
And don't kid yourself, queing up items for upgrades is not a case of "push and forget", it is tied to the user interface. Everytime a commander would jump out of the chair, they would need to reset their ques because those instructions haven't been sent yet, similar to that you can't push the button for the next upgrade because it is not there or faded out for lack of resources or the building doesn't even exist yet. Its not like queing allows research automaticly without thought in to how you are going to place buildings, then link them to your Commander interface and making sure that building remains intact until the next research has the resources available to trigger the next one after the one before is finished. Its purely a method of not forgeting this or that upgrade to the point where the marines who rely on you eject you for the command chair for what is an honest mistake when you are always hovering over their shoulder instead of the base. Other RTS games allow for queing, why not NS2? <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hum the only other thing i can think of it for upgrades, a com can select a upgrade from the structure and play a game of tetris to speed up the upgrade the better he plays time off the upgrade begins to shave.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tetris? You can't be serious, any chance I thought of you not trying to make the Commander experience dull, distressing, and tedious just left with that. While the commander is playing tetris (why not pong? How about minesweeper? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ) instead of playing NS2, what do you suppose will happen to the rest of the team? I think Commander Hate is confirmed with this. This seems like idea sabotage. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As second com chair seat, for power micro management and tetris upgrade could be fun, as well as seeing what the com is doing, also provides two main base defenders, A musical com chair effect, safe in com chair, com drops structure jump out build jump back in second seat safe in com chair.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Er, you are suggesting two marines get ball and chained to the base because they are going to need more hands available for power management and playing tetris? And this idea comes after "As a kharra regular i am continously ticked that for hte first 10 players rines must get one more its unfair they have a com. thats bull ###### and people know it, a good com is worth 2-3 men."?
Please, I get it, you would rather play the Kharaa, but how are you going to do that if no one is willing to play the marines because of the hair pulling experience of being a Commander?
<!--quoteo(post=1648721:date=Sep 11 2007, 02:55 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Sep 11 2007, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648721"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tetris? You can't be serious, any chance I thought of you not trying to make the Commander experience dull, distressing, and tedious just left with that. While the commander is playing tetris (why not pong? How about minesweeper? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ) instead of playing NS2, what do you suppose will happen to the rest of the team? I think Commander Hate is confirmed with this. This seems like idea sabotage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is an unfortunate fallout from Bioshock, clearly.
<!--quoteo(post=1648723:date=Sep 11 2007, 09:09 AM:name=niaccurshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(niaccurshi @ Sep 11 2007, 09:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is an unfortunate fallout from Bioshock, clearly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How so? I haven't played Bioshock, and since I heard about their "protection" that comes with the game, I'm not all that inclined to install it.
I know in System Shock 2 it was possible to play a version of minesweeper called Pigs. But that was single player, you could take all the time you want for that. Perhaps if you could play mini games in the ready room, that might be interesting, but not as a Commander who is looking out for the good of the marine team.
J, Fortress Forever has a custom GUI that people can drag-drop, scale, etc. ie, fully customizable along with 15 sets of crosshairs. Check it out when it's released, and I'm sure that it'd give you some ideas for the commander mode (maybe?, lol).
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 10:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The first time i stepped in, i was bombarded by icons. It even took a full minute or two to notice the big red 'logout' button to be able to leave. This is all necessary though, the learning curve. If anything, have a quick video tutorial somewhere, and have the game log whether you've seen it or not. Don't allow players into the comm chair without having seen it. Sure, vets will complain for about 2 seconds, but most will check it out regardless to see any new features.
My most memorable experiences are just like my most memorable NS experiences... when its been a really tight game, or even a losing game, and I've pulled off some moves as comm to bring us right back and win. I dont think there are any interface-specific 'memorable experiences'.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you love and/or hate about commanding?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love the responsibility, and the ability to perform so well under such responsibility. You're the one Commander... no other player has such innate importance, or at least such purposeful importance; a stellar Fade can mean the game more than the Commander, but a fade can still be killed and put back to measly skulk. I also love the waypoints, regardless of what many other people say. I've been comming a very long time, and its in my nature to help newbs out as much as possible, that I've gotten into the habit (a long time ago) of constantly giving waypoints, to everyone. Maybe i'm the only comm who actually uses them correctly. Whenever I'm giving an order to a player, as I begin saying the order over the mic i select them, then click on the map for where i want them to go, then give them the exact waypoint as i'm saying the location over the mic. A buddy of mine recently started playing and said he could always tell when i commed, since waypoints would just pop up constantly and he'd always know exactly what to do. This shouldnt be changed imo; its a players choice and ability. I just think that most vet comms think they're above waypoints or that they're a waste of time, when imo, in pubs, combined with voice ordering, they make all but the most noob pubbers do exactly what you want.
Hate about commanding? The newbs, but again, this cant really be avoided. There's always something to do, which is a good thing, but i'd love more interactivity. More on that later.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, i only avoid comming if I want to go pew pew pew.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, glad you asked.
<b><u>1. Revamp the Squad system. </u></b> -noone actually uses Squads for players, for a simple reason. Respawning. Sure making three squads and giving them separate objectives could be fun, cool and useful, but the instant any of their marines die (so in about 20 seconds), the squads go to s***. So...
-<u>Auto-assign buildings to the squads.</u> Every (decent) comm has their own setup, and you can tell an excellent comm vs a mediocre one from hopping in the chair after him and seeing his building hotkeys. I would suggest having 1-5 being your Obs, Secondary Obs, Arms lab, armory, Proto. Hence the 2nd slot would remain open for a bit. Or, you could have a small icon which allows for a drop-down menu if you have mutliple obs (or for any structures); that way you could select one obs, use the ping a few times, select another, do the same. I prefer the current customizable method, but a set layout would be better for the general public to learn.
-<u>Tapping twice on a squadkey to move to them, and back.</u>. I didnt know how else to say that. This is also a rather small point. Say when i'm siegeing. I'm looking at the hive room, and i have my obs selected. If I hit the obs squadkey again, it brings me back to the obs, which is a nice little feature. But, this happens often by mistake (which is fine, comm error). If i dont move the view at all, i.e. i'm perfectly still over the obs, i hit the squadkey again to bring me back to the sieging of the hive. My issue though, is that if i move the view whatsoever once i'm back over the obs, hitting the squadkey again will NOT bring me back to the previous view. My suggestion is to put a small cooldown on this, say 3-5 seconds, to avoid this small yet annoying bug.
-<u>Open up slots 6-0</u>. This could allow for further customization, squads, etc. You wouldnt have to care about the 'You're squad 5', because to the comm, a squad could be on 7, but to the squad, they could be squad 1. It could even show the current marine-squad-face with a '1' over it, on the 7 slot.
-<u>Make squadded marines who die, lose their squad.</u> There's no point in them still being in the same squad after a death, because they'll never catch up, and if they try, those marines will be dead by the time they get there, and this whole process happens within the first 30 seconds of a squad being together. Instead, put the onus on the comm to add players to a squad should they join up with them. I dont even know if shift+select works to add players to the selection, since I either select all i can see in a box, or use the Select All button; but the shift+select would be all thats needed for a comm to place new players into a squad (and then hit ctrl-7).
-<u>Click on one squad member, click on them all. </u>I dont *think* this is implemented now, but it should be. I do understand how this would conflict with the current squad system, but that would be fixed with the previous suggestion (squad members who die lose their squad). Reason; If a squad member dies, usually he'd get a new order from base, and hence would need a new waypoint.
-<u>Colour-code the squad icons to their hp.</u>. This is mainly for the structures. It helps a comm to be able to see that his AA is under attack, but it would help even more to be able to see its in the yellow or red. Heck, even put an HP ring around the icons if you so choose.
-<u>(possibly) Allow bookmarks for locations.</u>. I use this a lot in RTS games; Ctrl+f1-f4 allows you to bookmark locations. I know it wouldnt be those keys, but maybe you could use another system; ctrl+alt+1-4 makes bookmarks, then alt+1-4 goes to the bookmarks. A good comm can almost as quickly use the minimap, but it wouldnt be as accurate or quite as fast.
-<u>Give special rights to certain squads/players.</u> This slightly conflicts with the suggestion that players lose their squad when they die, but the idea counts. Either allow a squad to be given 'weapons/equipment rights', or be able to assign specific players said ability. Then, a comm can place X amount of res into the armory and/or proto, and those players can take what they want until said res runs out. I still want the ability to drop guns where i want and to who i want, but this would streamline the process significantly for some types of comms.
Thats it for the squad system revamps, for now.
<b><u>Other suggestions:</b></u>
-<u>Right-click twice for 'guard'</u>. This is another RTS feature that would be nice. When selected on a marine/marines, right-click twice within a small area (roughly a foot or two) and it'll turn from a waypoint to a 'defend here'. There doesnt seem to be a defend ability in the current NS, so a comm is left to give the order over voice and hope its followed. A built-in defend order would be easier to give and would possibly intimidate the players a bit more into following it, at least for a little bit.
-<u>Customizable Waypoints, via type (simpler than it sounds)</u>. Perhaps this can be a toggle for comms; when set off, its like the current system; when set on, any waypoint placed can be selected; a small typebox opens in the middle bar of the comm view (where the upgrade progress bar goes), so the comm can type in 'sensory here' or 'boost here' or 'ambush the fade here', and it would go underneath the waypoint. This would even negate the need for the 'pickup equipment' special waypoint, which is rarely used anyways and seems a bit buggy.
-<u>PiP video.</u> I dont know how viable this is, but Source has some very impressive abilities, and i know that the camera effect is one of them. Perhaps have a small toggle button on the comm view somewhere that allows or disallows Picture-in-Picture (PiP), and then have a keyboard command/comm button that turns on PiP for the marine he has selected. This would be a glorious addition to Commanding; it may not even be used that much, but it would be fun, give the comm a better idea of the ground-level situation, and sure as hell look awesome on any videos you use to pimp NS2.
-<u>A new Scan and Beacon button.</u> Somewhere on the hud, a small scan button. When clicked, it automatically selects a Scan from the obs with the most energy. This would streamline the process quite a bit, though you might want to add a hotkey for this as well. Perhaps also add a Beacon button, but this would need to be clicked twice (same concept and reasoning as for f4ing).
-<u><b>Commander Interactivity.</u></b> Theres a few ideas under here, but they all basically let the commander 'do' more in terms of really affecting the game instead of just dropping meds, giving waypoints, and managing the tech. ---<b>Turrets</b>. This would nodes be placed by the mapper, probably on the ceilings, and with a ton of them throughout the map. When not enabled, they would be small (heightwise) but wide black circles. Perhaps when not enabled, they could even be a static prop, or even brushwork (which could be standard between maps). You could balance them out by a requirement for them to be welded first (to be allowed to be enabled), and then costing the comm ~15-20 res or so to enable. Then they would drop down, and act mainly like the current turrets. At such a higher price than regular turrets, they would be used sparingly, but would still be a great addition. Furthermore, a comm could select said turret and take it over, increasing its rate of fire by perhaps 20-30%. Not enough to unbalance them, but enough to make their tactical use worthwhile, against the con of not having med support for that time.
---<u>Cameras</u>. Either placed on the walls by the comm, or given to marines as an equipment pack that is to be placed. These could be small and black, and perhaps be cloaked unless an alien comes within 2-3 feet. To help balance them, they could have a small blinking red LED that can be seen when uncloaked. The comm could then go into this camera, perhaps in the Picture-in-Picture on his HUD previously mentioned, and see whats going on. You could perhaps set it so alien static defenses don't attack them, even when uncloaked, and sensories dont pick up on them. As such, they could provide for some awesome gameplay moments, and quality intel. Imagine placing one in Mineral before the aliens take it and lock it down? It would be debatable whether it should work for siegeing, but perhaps it would need to be manually uncloaked to do so (a small ticker button for the comm).
---<u>Sensors</u>. These would be cheaper than cameras, placed by marines, and they could be done in different ways (as in, the dev team could do them a lot of different ways). Perhaps any aliens within its sight will set off a ping on comms map; maybe it would give an obs-coverage-like blip to anything it sees, etc. These would need to be cheap but also easy to take out as aliens.
Personally i feel that the sensors are the weakest of these three suggestions, but that the turrets and the cameras could be valuable additions. Perhaps a new structure could be made available for the comm which allows a marine to take over the turrents and cameras; naturally, a comm would only want to drop this later in the game, once the turrets have been activated and cameras placed.
WHEW. I'll probably come up with more, but this is what i've got for the 'Commander Experience' so far. Sorry if i've doubled up previous suggestions, i only found this thread now and didnt go through it all.
ok i didn't see anything mentioned about this before and dont hate me if it was...
my idea is for the commander that if you own multiple screens for your comp ( i have 4 running w/ 2 GPU) that it should let you view different special aspects per a screen so one is a detailed view of something specific or maybe a stats screen with res and marine stats with equipment or something and, or one with an over head map
and for a marine one screen will have commands or squads with player stats while the other has your normal 1st person view...
excuse the horrible grammer and like i said its just an idea...
I think I've forgot to mention that waypoints shouldn't be blocking marine's vision, no matter the situation. The same goes for the rest of the commanding: No matter which method of communication the comm uses, it shouldn't cause any problems for the marines. For example microphone communications mute the ingame sounds. The marine you're ordering around might understand the necessity of the mic use, but the guy who got bitten because he couldn't listen to footsteps doesn't. Of course meds can still block the marine lïne of sight and so on, its a feature, not a hindrance for the teamwork. Just make the communication itself as smooth as possible.
I think I once suggested having a few different voice communication channels like: Team, public chat, maybe even marine hotkey group or just team players close by. That way the team chat could be kept short and informal, while the public channel could be used for the casual chat. If all are accessed via hotkeys it shouldn't be much of a problem combining them to suit your idea of fun gameplay.
I'd like to see for once, structures that can be turned on their own edges to fill a good space. For example, you're sieging with your marines squad and you have the perfect spot near the wall to place the TF, "It'd rock if the TF gets placed that way at the left, so skulks need to bite it ahead" but unfortunately, your TF gets placed like at the opposite, leaving a empty spot near the wall so the skulks can go in there to bite it and marines need to move out of the way to kill the skulks. Range of vision in marines, MGS style, would be great aswell, so the commander can have an idea of what they are doing in the battlefield.
Some guys have posted that there should be a way to give meds without failing or something. The handicap in the commander is mostly that, the fact of failing meds or ammo. It'd be GODLIKE if a commander can't fail a med, even a LMG could kill a fade easily.
I'll post some new stuff when I get back to home, I wanna make this bigger.
<!--quoteo(post=1649978:date=Sep 17 2007, 01:28 AM:name=DooGie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DooGie @ Sep 17 2007, 01:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1649978"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to see for once, structures that can be turned on their own edges to fill a good space. For example, you're sieging with your marines squad and you have the perfect spot near the wall to place the TF, "It'd rock if the TF gets placed that way at the left, so skulks need to bite it ahead" but unfortunately, your TF gets placed like at the opposite, leaving a empty spot near the wall so the skulks can go in there to bite it and marines need to move out of the way to kill the skulks. Range of vision in marines, MGS style, would be great aswell, so the commander can have an idea of what they are doing in the battlefield.
Some guys have posted that there should be a way to give meds without failing or something. The handicap in the commander is mostly that, the fact of failing meds or ammo. It'd be GODLIKE if a commander can't fail a med, even a LMG could kill a fade easily.
I'll post some new stuff when I get back to home, I wanna make this bigger.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 05:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 05:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well after sorting out which structure to place first and runing the game for a lot of people, I found it reallly stressing and demanding. Everyone expected me to be able to give them orders, upgrade structures and set out an advancement strategy at the same time, things that'd never really crossed my mind before I stepped in the first time. What I remember really liking, and what I still like a lot is the logic behind the hotkeys, that makes you always know what key to press even when exploring new areas of the tree.
I think some sort of training tutorial for commanding could be usefull, as I myself only ever really learnt the basics of commanding when I could do it in peace with some bots that followed my orders, and then I got a few friends in the game and had them play marines against alien bots. Commanding is not something you can learn in a public game where everyone critizises every action you take, and when you might actually be ruining the fun for others.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you love and/or hate about commanding?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I love the idea that you're not really playing a RTS, even if some commanders seem to believe they do. You're giving orders.. or let's say suggestions to people for what to do, you need to motivate them and explain for them what it is you're trying to archieve if you want to be successfull. You can actually learn a lot of real life bossing experience just playing commander. The worst thing about commanding is definentely when you lose. I always take it so god damn personal and after a lost game commanding I probably just log off for an hour or two to cool off. I've just been responsible for the defeat of my team, I couldn't live up to their expectations, my strategy was at fault. Bashing my fist into the wall has occured once or twice.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nowadays I just avoid commanding completely, I know there's a lof of players who are a lot better fit for the role, and can handle the pressure and stress. I never really feel the desire to command, it's not necessary for me to make a good game, I'm sufficient with the knowledge of that someone else is sitting there giving directions, and I have faith in that person and try to follow and see his or her intentions.
EDIT:
Oh, and fully customizable commander interface through lua (think WoW) would be totaly awsome, we got a lot of talented people playing this game that could bring up new ideas the gamemakers couldn't come up with, later on the gamemakers could implement them into the game itself (like in WoW <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />). I'd love to be able to move everything around and scale everything just the way I want it, maybe write an addon for unit healthbars since I'm used to wow healing. Basicly a list of healthbars of the players in your team, clicking on the bar would move you to that marine so you could easily drop a medpack. With free lua UI the posibilities would be endless.
Comments
Automating the commander experience:
Agree here that automation is bad for two reasons. 1) It would be boring to be the COM and 2) it would reduce the required skill, but you need to define what you mean by automation. Being able to do basic things like queue the next upgrade so that you did not have to weight for the next 5 RES to tick in is not really automation. Nor is creating upgrade packs (jp+hmg+weld) that you can drop onto a selected marine and as soon as they are in range of the relevant buildings they get the items. However, getting able to cue all upgrades in a set order and have it so its free range on the armoury for all players is automation. Between the too extremes is grey so where do you want to draw the line? Certainly the hot keys were an improvement on v1 but they are not automation.
STATS
Why no to stats? We acknowledge the kills and deaths. Really if its important to you then the players can manually count! Far too often the real team players who spend their time welding and building and following orders get lower kills. A stats page may encourage players to not be noobs and that is good.
- Ranks go from -10 to 10, starting at 0
- It'd be a permanent stat, that you get experiance in by other players votes on your commanding.
- It'll be VERY hard to get above even 8 CR.
I think its a lovely idea, to let people know how good a commander are.
Or alternatively how bad.
Let them eject a -5 commander who sells bases and ######s around.
- Ranks go from -10 to 10, starting at 0
- It'd be a permanent stat, that you get experiance in by other players votes on your commanding.
- It'll be VERY hard to get above even 8 CR.
I think its a lovely idea, to let people know how good a commander are.
Or alternatively how bad.
Let them eject a -5 commander who sells bases and ######s around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although I agree with this idea in principle in practice it would be a bad idea. Why? Abuse
I have COM'ed <i>and</i> been a player where the marines have lost, not because the Aliens played well, because guiding the marine team was like herding cats. The COM's order where not followed by the majority of the team who RAMBO or hug spawn demanding wanted toys but getting and maintaining the RES points to get them etc. Yet despite it being the players fault the COM gets the blame. Of course there was also a few that knew what happened and voice this but then the NOOB ratio is high your COM rank would go down regardless.
Any player assigned ranks, <b> if ever implemented</b>, should only be viewable to the player who gave it and not everyone else. Also if you get a low ranking because you are new, ejected each time because you try to COM, how would you ever improve?
then if you have 60 res or more, marines will be automatically med'd / ammo'd at the same rate as resupplying in combat(so it can't be used to waste commanders res) - but only when requested so there won;t be med'ing someone that knows they will die and doesnt want to be med'd.
Once the res drops below 60 ( if med'ing/ammo'ing caused it to or if commander built a structure) then the auto resupply stops until res is over 60 again - or the comm can type in a new number.
The comm can always med as normal whether its turned on or off, however requests will only show until they are automatically forefilled.
then if you have 60 res or more, marines will be automatically med'd / ammo'd at the same rate as resupplying in combat(so it can't be used to waste commanders res) - but only when requested so there won;t be med'ing someone that knows they will die and doesnt want to be med'd.
Once the res drops below 60 ( if med'ing/ammo'ing caused it to or if commander built a structure) then the auto resupply stops until res is over 60 again - or the comm can type in a new number.
The comm can always med as normal whether its turned on or off, however requests will only show until they are automatically forefilled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know custom servers had a mod, that when you place meds/ammo near a building. They got stored. (This was simply cos they couldnt do it any other way)
Basically what this did, is let the commander buy ammo/meds and then when a marine requests they instantly got it.
But i think this is a bad idea. Meds and ammo dropping is a big part of commanding. dont make it automated.
This unfortunately wouldn't solve the problem since you're assuming there is always a good commander on the server and that they are on the marines side AND that they are happy to keep jumping in the chair.
Sometimes "sucky commanders" have to jump in the chair, and to be honest without them getting the opportunity to the talent pool for commanders is going to continue to dry up. More needs to be done to help new commanders as it IS a daunting experience, especially for those that aren't considered good and perhaps don't get as much of a chance to learn how to comm because of more experienced people feeling they have to comm.
That said I agree with Sherpa, there's no need to dilute the overall experience either, that level of complexity can't be dumbed down at its highest skill level.
Sometimes "sucky commanders" have to jump in the chair, and to be honest without them getting the opportunity to the talent pool for commanders is going to continue to dry up. More needs to be done to help new commanders as it IS a daunting experience, especially for those that aren't considered good and perhaps don't get as much of a chance to learn how to comm because of more experienced people feeling they have to comm.
That said I agree with Sherpa, there's no need to dilute the overall experience either, that level of complexity can't be dumbed down at its highest skill level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep.
But as i said before - there should be a commander simulator with bots, where you have to complete certain tasks. So atleast the bad commanders wil know what to do.
Agreed. Don't dilute it, but make it so that it is easy enough for a first time comm to get by with the basics, and possibly even win. But also leave enough room for an experienced commander to take advantage of some special features.
YOu know like some RTS games, they have a team/race that is easy to use, and well balanced which is good for new players, but then there is a complex team/race which is not so balanced, but can beat the balanced team through experience/multi management and unique special skills.
How this would be done in NS *shrug*
Perhaps a button to switch between normal and advanced views / menus. the normal one gives more tips and perhaps does some things for the commander - but the advanced gives the comm full control.
I'm talking about things like giving marines more (not total) control over their own upgrades, and giving the commander other (less desirable or perhaps riskier) ways to proceed when players are refusing to build.
So ya, decreasing the dependence--I think--would be a good thing. Good players need access to decent weapons, even if the com isn't aware of the fact :x. I think if the single change of 'rine gets resource points by pwning alien structures, lifeforms and building nanite things' got implemented, then the game would have a lot less rage in it. If a player didn't get the weapon they needed to pwn aliens with, then he'd only have himself to blame for not building, killing and wiping the floor with alien blood.
The amount of rage that is currently generated towards a com is just..CRAZY. And the bad thing is, is that a lot of players don't even know how -bad- the com really is, so they don't eject him [mostly b/c no one else will com]. Nor does anyone else know how to com. The usability quotient for com'ing certainly does need to increase, but without dumbing it down or automating it.
Seriously, the commander being "all powerful" on the marine side is what makes this game so different to almost everything else out there, we don't need to dumb this game down, what we need to do is provide more opportunities to comm, comm training (as Stars has said I think) with bots, and smooth out the asthetics so that it isn't so complicated for 1st timers.
If we still can't get comm's into the game after trying a few of these ideas for helping newbie comm's then maybe it should begin to be considered to dumb down the game.
Seriously, the commander being "all powerful" on the marine side is what makes this game so different to almost everything else out there, we don't need to dumb this game down, what we need to do is provide more opportunities to comm, comm training (as Stars has said I think) with bots, and smooth out the asthetics so that it isn't so complicated for 1st timers.
If we still can't get comm's into the game after trying a few of these ideas for helping newbie comm's then maybe it should begin to be considered to dumb down the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
But i disagree a little..
Commanding SHOULD be complicated and confusing for first timers.
Players should get training offline first to aquire a "commading certificate".
Not to mention, commanding is the main reason why i play NS. I'm an rts player.
If it was dumbed down, i may get bored.
Actually thats not true, but still.
Keep commanding as an intense and full on experiance.
One thing i hate is... alot of the time ( may just be me ) My view is over the base for far too long, For example, scanning, To scan every time in between meds ammo and other things, You need to go all the way to your base click the obs then click back on the map where u want to scan and then click again.
One of the ideas suggested in here about clicking and dragging the buttons making little shortcuts that can stay on your HUD is such a huge improvement (Instead of going back to base to click the obs to scan again, you just click the little shortcut you made earlier), This could work for anything too... Click and drag the armor upgrades weapon upgrades up there then when you get the message theyre done you just click on the next one with no second thought at all... and no time spent away from covering your marines or developing your strategy. Personally, This idea should be taken very seriously... it'd be so nice and I think would encourage commanding.
Visually, Slick, easy to hit buttons if i need to actually click something, the more screen i see the better.
As for stuff like being able to see through a marines eyes, sounds awesome, but... If it takes too much of the commanders screen or... makes me unable to do anything while i view it, then I probobly wouldn't use it unless it was some rare occasion that a marine wanted to show me something that I couldnt see due to the map being weird or w/e.
Edit: Stats and rankings are a waste of time imo, discourages new people from ever trying for fear of failing or getting ejected off the bat. Just overall ruins the experience.
And as for way points, theyre still an effective way for the commander to issue orders, especially if that commander does not have a mic, However for the marine if the icon was pushed up or made to show only on the minimap/map as its too big for me even on 1440x900 when playing as marine. It might encourage people who get way points to go to them and remove it, but sometimes the commander puts them in weird places and never removes them, and even while going to the way point its annoying.
But i disagree a little..
Commanding SHOULD be complicated and confusing for first timers.
Players should get training offline first to aquire a "commading certificate".
Not to mention, commanding is the main reason why i play NS. I'm an rts player.
If it was dumbed down, i may get bored.
Actually thats not true, but still.
Keep commanding as an intense and full on experiance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not saying make the act of comming less complicated, I'm saying make the interface less confusing, or more accurately more intuitive.
Ok UI rescale option, wow and second life both have these, they also support wide screen. and both use lua from memorie.
I would like to see a whine noob icon to brand little ######es, from their if they still dont do as they are told double clicking their whiner icon would give their marine avatar a small zap, maybe some health lost and a HUD shack.
Timer clock face icons like wow would be semi ok. I dont think queing up upgrades is fair.
I turely hate the idea of queing up weapons in a structure.
Dont take away from the com XP, but he also needs some twitch play medding is fine in that way so is cat packs and scans. i wouldnt go as far as game breaking like droping a CC to block a onos retreat, but they need something some interactivity with the map and surounding that if excuted might change the play of the game, but not if the enamy is skilled enough. droping a CC to block a onos retreat is over kill, but prahaps droping something he can duck jump over wouldnt be so bad. temp ceailing gun toggle at main base, if broken requries repair. prahaps doors can be pre emtivly opened and closed from top down com view, unless door is infested. would anoy kharra and stream line TSA movement.
I like the idea of marines or squads being informed with a color HUD boarder aura if the com is over head, looking directly at them or working with there selected squad, it lets you know yoru under the wing, that you can do stupid stuff with less risk.
Multi lvl maps please nstr2, with a multi cam/lvl camera, I second meds and stucc being droped 2 feet from ground as not to get snaged on roof objects.
As a kharra regular i am continously ticked that for hte first 10 players rines must get one more its unfair they have a com. thats bull ###### and people know it, a good com is worth 2-3 men. and honoustly dont think the chair needs to be dumbed down or made easy. what it ssounds like most of these people are wanting is a chair you can jump in drop 4 buildsing jump out build those 4 buildsing que up upgrades, grab a shotie like the rest of your team then catch up to them in the map. <THIS IS NOT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
com has more power than most of them let on
hum the only other thing i can think of it for upgrades, a com can select a upgrade from the structure and play a game of tetris to speed up the upgrade the better he plays time off the upgrade begins to shave.
I think power couplinks need to be implimented and rez/tf elec needs a couplink near by, and spawn needs a power gen, if power gen is damage zaping begins to fail or go on the fritz, micro managing power could also add to another lvl of intencity and emertion for the com.
Thats a few hud suggestions and a few twitch/jobs/fun for coms to get into.
As second com chair seat, for power micro management and tetris upgrade could be fun, as well as seeing what the com is doing, also provides two main base defenders, A musical com chair effect, safe in com chair, com drops structure jump out build jump back in second seat safe in com chair.
I disagree with this, it is a sure fire way for a Commander to get voted out. Offer rewards for good team play, not punishments for "noob" behavior, even though what is "noob" is totally arbitrary from one player to the next. Incentives are much better for teaching new players than abusing them and scaring them away from the game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Timer clock face icons like wow would be semi ok. I dont think queing up upgrades is fair.
I turely hate the idea of queing up weapons in a structure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you hate weapons chosen and picked up by the marines so? It could prove a huge benifit to making sure a weapon got to its intended marine, no more grief in that regard. I'm not even sure you are reading the same posts I was, it wasn't a que, it was permission to load out with very clear limits.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dont take away from the com XP, but he also needs some twitch play medding is fine in that way so is cat packs and scans. i wouldnt go as far as game breaking like droping a CC to block a onos retreat, but they need something some interactivity with the map and surounding that if excuted might change the play of the game, but not if the enamy is skilled enough. droping a CC to block a onos retreat is over kill, but prahaps droping something he can duck jump over wouldnt be so bad. temp ceailing gun toggle at main base, if broken requries repair. prahaps doors can be pre emtivly opened and closed from top down com view, unless door is infested. would anoy kharra and stream line TSA movement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The comm needs twitch game play? I disagree, the comm is the RTS component to the marines, that is its strength, more progress in that regards would greater benefit the experience. The closest a marine Commander should come to twitch game play would be hacking and controling aspects of the map to create a temp trap or temp block so retreating marines have a chance.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As a kharra regular i am continously ticked that for hte first 10 players rines must get one more its unfair they have a com. thats bull ###### and people know it, a good com is worth 2-3 men. and honoustly dont think the chair needs to be dumbed down or made easy. what it ssounds like most of these people are wanting is a chair you can jump in drop 4 buildsing jump out build those 4 buildsing que up upgrades, grab a shotie like the rest of your team then catch up to them in the map. <THIS IS NOT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
com has more power than most of them let on<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kharaa regular, eh? Do I sense some marine hate? Perhaps a desire to make Commanding harder, not more new player friendly?
And don't kid yourself, queing up items for upgrades is not a case of "push and forget", it is tied to the user interface. Everytime a commander would jump out of the chair, they would need to reset their ques because those instructions haven't been sent yet, similar to that you can't push the button for the next upgrade because it is not there or faded out for lack of resources or the building doesn't even exist yet. Its not like queing allows research automaticly without thought in to how you are going to place buildings, then link them to your Commander interface and making sure that building remains intact until the next research has the resources available to trigger the next one after the one before is finished. Its purely a method of not forgeting this or that upgrade to the point where the marines who rely on you eject you for the command chair for what is an honest mistake when you are always hovering over their shoulder instead of the base. Other RTS games allow for queing, why not NS2?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hum the only other thing i can think of it for upgrades, a com can select a upgrade from the structure and play a game of tetris to speed up the upgrade the better he plays time off the upgrade begins to shave.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tetris? You can't be serious, any chance I thought of you not trying to make the Commander experience dull, distressing, and tedious just left with that. While the commander is playing tetris (why not pong? How about minesweeper? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ) instead of playing NS2, what do you suppose will happen to the rest of the team? I think Commander Hate is confirmed with this. This seems like idea sabotage.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As second com chair seat, for power micro management and tetris upgrade could be fun, as well as seeing what the com is doing, also provides two main base defenders, A musical com chair effect, safe in com chair, com drops structure jump out build jump back in second seat safe in com chair.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er, you are suggesting two marines get ball and chained to the base because they are going to need more hands available for power management and playing tetris? And this idea comes after "As a kharra regular i am continously ticked that for hte first 10 players rines must get one more its unfair they have a com. thats bull ###### and people know it, a good com is worth 2-3 men."?
Please, I get it, you would rather play the Kharaa, but how are you going to do that if no one is willing to play the marines because of the hair pulling experience of being a Commander?
This is an unfortunate fallout from Bioshock, clearly.
How so? I haven't played Bioshock, and since I heard about their "protection" that comes with the game, I'm not all that inclined to install it.
I know in System Shock 2 it was possible to play a version of minesweeper called Pigs. But that was single player, you could take all the time you want for that. Perhaps if you could play mini games in the ready room, that might be interesting, but not as a Commander who is looking out for the good of the marine team.
The first time i stepped in, i was bombarded by icons. It even took a full minute or two to notice the big red 'logout' button to be able to leave. This is all necessary though, the learning curve. If anything, have a quick video tutorial somewhere, and have the game log whether you've seen it or not. Don't allow players into the comm chair without having seen it. Sure, vets will complain for about 2 seconds, but most will check it out regardless to see any new features.
My most memorable experiences are just like my most memorable NS experiences... when its been a really tight game, or even a losing game, and I've pulled off some moves as comm to bring us right back and win. I dont think there are any interface-specific 'memorable experiences'.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you love and/or hate about commanding?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love the responsibility, and the ability to perform so well under such responsibility. You're the one Commander... no other player has such innate importance, or at least such purposeful importance; a stellar Fade can mean the game more than the Commander, but a fade can still be killed and put back to measly skulk.
I also love the waypoints, regardless of what many other people say. I've been comming a very long time, and its in my nature to help newbs out as much as possible, that I've gotten into the habit (a long time ago) of constantly giving waypoints, to everyone. Maybe i'm the only comm who actually uses them correctly. Whenever I'm giving an order to a player, as I begin saying the order over the mic i select them, then click on the map for where i want them to go, then give them the exact waypoint as i'm saying the location over the mic. A buddy of mine recently started playing and said he could always tell when i commed, since waypoints would just pop up constantly and he'd always know exactly what to do. This shouldnt be changed imo; its a players choice and ability. I just think that most vet comms think they're above waypoints or that they're a waste of time, when imo, in pubs, combined with voice ordering, they make all but the most noob pubbers do exactly what you want.
Hate about commanding? The newbs, but again, this cant really be avoided. There's always something to do, which is a good thing, but i'd love more interactivity. More on that later.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, i only avoid comming if I want to go pew pew pew.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, glad you asked.
<b><u>1. Revamp the Squad system. </u></b>
-noone actually uses Squads for players, for a simple reason. Respawning. Sure making three squads and giving them separate objectives could be fun, cool and useful, but the instant any of their marines die (so in about 20 seconds), the squads go to s***. So...
-<u>Auto-assign buildings to the squads.</u> Every (decent) comm has their own setup, and you can tell an excellent comm vs a mediocre one from hopping in the chair after him and seeing his building hotkeys. I would suggest having 1-5 being your Obs, Secondary Obs, Arms lab, armory, Proto. Hence the 2nd slot would remain open for a bit. Or, you could have a small icon which allows for a drop-down menu if you have mutliple obs (or for any structures); that way you could select one obs, use the ping a few times, select another, do the same. I prefer the current customizable method, but a set layout would be better for the general public to learn.
-<u>Tapping twice on a squadkey to move to them, and back.</u>. I didnt know how else to say that. This is also a rather small point. Say when i'm siegeing. I'm looking at the hive room, and i have my obs selected. If I hit the obs squadkey again, it brings me back to the obs, which is a nice little feature. But, this happens often by mistake (which is fine, comm error). If i dont move the view at all, i.e. i'm perfectly still over the obs, i hit the squadkey again to bring me back to the sieging of the hive. My issue though, is that if i move the view whatsoever once i'm back over the obs, hitting the squadkey again will NOT bring me back to the previous view. My suggestion is to put a small cooldown on this, say 3-5 seconds, to avoid this small yet annoying bug.
-<u>Open up slots 6-0</u>. This could allow for further customization, squads, etc. You wouldnt have to care about the 'You're squad 5', because to the comm, a squad could be on 7, but to the squad, they could be squad 1. It could even show the current marine-squad-face with a '1' over it, on the 7 slot.
-<u>Make squadded marines who die, lose their squad.</u> There's no point in them still being in the same squad after a death, because they'll never catch up, and if they try, those marines will be dead by the time they get there, and this whole process happens within the first 30 seconds of a squad being together. Instead, put the onus on the comm to add players to a squad should they join up with them. I dont even know if shift+select works to add players to the selection, since I either select all i can see in a box, or use the Select All button; but the shift+select would be all thats needed for a comm to place new players into a squad (and then hit ctrl-7).
-<u>Click on one squad member, click on them all. </u>I dont *think* this is implemented now, but it should be. I do understand how this would conflict with the current squad system, but that would be fixed with the previous suggestion (squad members who die lose their squad). Reason; If a squad member dies, usually he'd get a new order from base, and hence would need a new waypoint.
-<u>Colour-code the squad icons to their hp.</u>. This is mainly for the structures. It helps a comm to be able to see that his AA is under attack, but it would help even more to be able to see its in the yellow or red. Heck, even put an HP ring around the icons if you so choose.
-<u>(possibly) Allow bookmarks for locations.</u>. I use this a lot in RTS games; Ctrl+f1-f4 allows you to bookmark locations. I know it wouldnt be those keys, but maybe you could use another system; ctrl+alt+1-4 makes bookmarks, then alt+1-4 goes to the bookmarks. A good comm can almost as quickly use the minimap, but it wouldnt be as accurate or quite as fast.
-<u>Give special rights to certain squads/players.</u> This slightly conflicts with the suggestion that players lose their squad when they die, but the idea counts. Either allow a squad to be given 'weapons/equipment rights', or be able to assign specific players said ability. Then, a comm can place X amount of res into the armory and/or proto, and those players can take what they want until said res runs out. I still want the ability to drop guns where i want and to who i want, but this would streamline the process significantly for some types of comms.
Thats it for the squad system revamps, for now.
<b><u>Other suggestions:</b></u>
-<u>Right-click twice for 'guard'</u>. This is another RTS feature that would be nice. When selected on a marine/marines, right-click twice within a small area (roughly a foot or two) and it'll turn from a waypoint to a 'defend here'. There doesnt seem to be a defend ability in the current NS, so a comm is left to give the order over voice and hope its followed. A built-in defend order would be easier to give and would possibly intimidate the players a bit more into following it, at least for a little bit.
-<u>Customizable Waypoints, via type (simpler than it sounds)</u>. Perhaps this can be a toggle for comms; when set off, its like the current system; when set on, any waypoint placed can be selected; a small typebox opens in the middle bar of the comm view (where the upgrade progress bar goes), so the comm can type in 'sensory here' or 'boost here' or 'ambush the fade here', and it would go underneath the waypoint. This would even negate the need for the 'pickup equipment' special waypoint, which is rarely used anyways and seems a bit buggy.
-<u>PiP video.</u> I dont know how viable this is, but Source has some very impressive abilities, and i know that the camera effect is one of them. Perhaps have a small toggle button on the comm view somewhere that allows or disallows Picture-in-Picture (PiP), and then have a keyboard command/comm button that turns on PiP for the marine he has selected. This would be a glorious addition to Commanding; it may not even be used that much, but it would be fun, give the comm a better idea of the ground-level situation, and sure as hell look awesome on any videos you use to pimp NS2.
-<u>A new Scan and Beacon button.</u> Somewhere on the hud, a small scan button. When clicked, it automatically selects a Scan from the obs with the most energy. This would streamline the process quite a bit, though you might want to add a hotkey for this as well. Perhaps also add a Beacon button, but this would need to be clicked twice (same concept and reasoning as for f4ing).
-<u><b>Commander Interactivity.</u></b>
Theres a few ideas under here, but they all basically let the commander 'do' more in terms of really affecting the game instead of just dropping meds, giving waypoints, and managing the tech.
---<b>Turrets</b>. This would nodes be placed by the mapper, probably on the ceilings, and with a ton of them throughout the map. When not enabled, they would be small (heightwise) but wide black circles. Perhaps when not enabled, they could even be a static prop, or even brushwork (which could be standard between maps). You could balance them out by a requirement for them to be welded first (to be allowed to be enabled), and then costing the comm ~15-20 res or so to enable. Then they would drop down, and act mainly like the current turrets. At such a higher price than regular turrets, they would be used sparingly, but would still be a great addition. Furthermore, a comm could select said turret and take it over, increasing its rate of fire by perhaps 20-30%. Not enough to unbalance them, but enough to make their tactical use worthwhile, against the con of not having med support for that time.
---<u>Cameras</u>. Either placed on the walls by the comm, or given to marines as an equipment pack that is to be placed. These could be small and black, and perhaps be cloaked unless an alien comes within 2-3 feet. To help balance them, they could have a small blinking red LED that can be seen when uncloaked. The comm could then go into this camera, perhaps in the Picture-in-Picture on his HUD previously mentioned, and see whats going on. You could perhaps set it so alien static defenses don't attack them, even when uncloaked, and sensories dont pick up on them. As such, they could provide for some awesome gameplay moments, and quality intel. Imagine placing one in Mineral before the aliens take it and lock it down? It would be debatable whether it should work for siegeing, but perhaps it would need to be manually uncloaked to do so (a small ticker button for the comm).
---<u>Sensors</u>. These would be cheaper than cameras, placed by marines, and they could be done in different ways (as in, the dev team could do them a lot of different ways). Perhaps any aliens within its sight will set off a ping on comms map; maybe it would give an obs-coverage-like blip to anything it sees, etc. These would need to be cheap but also easy to take out as aliens.
Personally i feel that the sensors are the weakest of these three suggestions, but that the turrets and the cameras could be valuable additions. Perhaps a new structure could be made available for the comm which allows a marine to take over the turrents and cameras; naturally, a comm would only want to drop this later in the game, once the turrets have been activated and cameras placed.
WHEW. I'll probably come up with more, but this is what i've got for the 'Commander Experience' so far. Sorry if i've doubled up previous suggestions, i only found this thread now and didnt go through it all.
my idea is for the commander that if you own multiple screens for your comp ( i have 4 running w/ 2 GPU) that it should let you view different special aspects per a screen so one is a detailed view of something specific or maybe a stats screen with res and marine stats with equipment or something and, or one with an over head map
and for a marine one screen will have commands or squads with player stats while the other has your normal 1st person view...
excuse the horrible grammer and like i said its just an idea...
I think I once suggested having a few different voice communication channels like: Team, public chat, maybe even marine hotkey group or just team players close by. That way the team chat could be kept short and informal, while the public channel could be used for the casual chat. If all are accessed via hotkeys it shouldn't be much of a problem combining them to suit your idea of fun gameplay.
Some guys have posted that there should be a way to give meds without failing or something. The handicap in the commander is mostly that, the fact of failing meds or ammo. It'd be GODLIKE if a commander can't fail a med, even a LMG could kill a fade easily.
I'll post some new stuff when I get back to home, I wanna make this bigger.
Some guys have posted that there should be a way to give meds without failing or something. The handicap in the commander is mostly that, the fact of failing meds or ammo. It'd be GODLIKE if a commander can't fail a med, even a LMG could kill a fade easily.
I'll post some new stuff when I get back to home, I wanna make this bigger.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well after sorting out which structure to place first and runing the game for a lot of people, I found it reallly stressing and demanding. Everyone expected me to be able to give them orders, upgrade structures and set out an advancement strategy at the same time, things that'd never really crossed my mind before I stepped in the first time. What I remember really liking, and what I still like a lot is the logic behind the hotkeys, that makes you always know what key to press even when exploring new areas of the tree.
I think some sort of training tutorial for commanding could be usefull, as I myself only ever really learnt the basics of commanding when I could do it in peace with some bots that followed my orders, and then I got a few friends in the game and had them play marines against alien bots. Commanding is not something you can learn in a public game where everyone critizises every action you take, and when you might actually be ruining the fun for others.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you love and/or hate about commanding?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love the idea that you're not really playing a RTS, even if some commanders seem to believe they do. You're giving orders.. or let's say suggestions to people for what to do, you need to motivate them and explain for them what it is you're trying to archieve if you want to be successfull. You can actually learn a lot of real life bossing experience just playing commander. The worst thing about commanding is definentely when you lose. I always take it so god damn personal and after a lost game commanding I probably just log off for an hour or two to cool off. I've just been responsible for the defeat of my team, I couldn't live up to their expectations, my strategy was at fault. Bashing my fist into the wall has occured once or twice.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nowadays I just avoid commanding completely, I know there's a lof of players who are a lot better fit for the role, and can handle the pressure and stress. I never really feel the desire to command, it's not necessary for me to make a good game, I'm sufficient with the knowledge of that someone else is sitting there giving directions, and I have faith in that person and try to follow and see his or her intentions.
EDIT:
Oh, and fully customizable commander interface through lua (think WoW) would be totaly awsome, we got a lot of talented people playing this game that could bring up new ideas the gamemakers couldn't come up with, later on the gamemakers could implement them into the game itself (like in WoW <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />). I'd love to be able to move everything around and scale everything just the way I want it, maybe write an addon for unit healthbars since I'm used to wow healing. Basicly a list of healthbars of the players in your team, clicking on the bar would move you to that marine so you could easily drop a medpack. With free lua UI the posibilities would be endless.