Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
ITT: people get pissed that other people like a game that they don't like because they jumped on the hater-bandwagon several years ago and can't grow the hell up and accept they were wrong, and should stop being a bunch of crybabies for no reason.
I too miss the old-school point and click adventure games of the 'clever, funny, smart' sort as Zero Punctuation puts it.
The new Sam and Max game(s) are okay, but, the first couple of episodes at least (I haven't tried the later ones) needs more freeroaming/larger areas, reason being that you then get more cross-area-action for more complex puzzles and whatnot.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2007
meh, only things I dislike is a tendency to change the crosshair colour to red when I hover over an unseen/long-range enemy to see when I should fire. Or the Call of Duty "healing when taking cover" thing and of course getting red dots all over my hud which give a way the enemy their position...
As long as you can turn them off, I don't mind. A hud shouldn't give away the exact location of an enemy, as some newer games tend to do, that's just stupid (NS tracking systems are ok, because they aren't working all the time and cost resources)... Also iron sights > crosshairs.
@ Dirty_Harry_Potter
I still want my Full Throttle 2! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
[edit] To add something to this "fear" of games getting "easier". That's why we have mod teams to fix the things, which are broken, as Forgotten Hope has done with BF42 or to be innovative as UWE has done <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I don't play NS anymore, but still play FH. And from what I've seen (not to be elitist or anything) I've asked some people I know to come and play FH with/vs my regular group. These invited guys only play BF42 or Desert combat for BF42 (in BF42 mod/games, they do play other stuff) and are very impressed with FH and all the stuff that has been added (the main alure).
Anyway, they tend to quit Forgotten Hope very fast into a round, because of all the knowledge you need to have for what your weapon can or cannot kill (Sherman tank vs King Tiger for example) Also where you hit a tank and the angle of attack plays a big role in doing damage or destoying them. It kind of scares them off, since they don't want all this skill and knowledge requirement.
Sme maps in FH can be quite imbalance, due to historic accuracy. FH-ers don't mind, but new players see this as unfair. All be it there are some maps, 4 I think, which are badly designed in terms of gameplay and historic realism. But then again they aren't played much <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
And when we come over to their games, they tend to give up very quickly as well. Because we probably use better tactics and aiming selftought from FH. Also aiming in BF42 and DC is way easier to do well then in FH, hence the edge, I guess...
As I said they do enjoy the game FH, but if they can't get to kill or are killed a lot themselves then will stop playing. Mostly the reason why games, catered for the bigest market, seem to be getting this newbie friendliness.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1645629:date=Aug 26 2007, 04:40 PM:name=MedHead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MedHead @ Aug 26 2007, 04:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1645629"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Zig, do you honestly feel that everyone who disagrees with you on this subject feels that way?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not EVERYONE, per se, but most of the people in here. I mean, I'm over Halo... I'm looking forward to 3 but I'm not as crazy about it, by any means, as I used to be. I'm not even really that crazy about gaming anymore. Really, I'm not biased either way when it comes to Halo, because I just don't care.
But don't tell me that you can't make the same simple observation, just by skimming over a couple posts, that a lot of people just jump onboard the "I don't like this because [x reason that's been repeated over and over in every discussion board out there]" for some kind of vague and pointless sense of community with other people who claim not to like the same thing.
It's just like straightedged kids in high school. "Oh, drugs are totally bad and you're like, a <i>weak person</i> if you let them into your life." That takes absolutely no conscious thought or personal consideration to say, but it sure sounds right and you can be confident that other people think that way (or at least talk that way), so you can feel righteous about it.
people find a sense of community over things they have in common. from car guys to video game fanboys, from racists to members of a religion or church. you can't really blame people for having a trait that's common to all humans. I think most people try to avoid blindly hating things, but I'd rather people hate the simplified gameplay in Halo than hate, say, each other. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
back on topic - I like when my crosshairs turn red over an enemy, and in-game radar to tell me where baddies are... I think FarCry did it pretty well where you have to scout out enemies with your binos first before they show up on your radar. best of both worlds.
Wasn't there a really unforgiving but cool modern combat FPS released early this year for the PC? might want to check that out if you think FPS games with radars and color-coding are too dumbed down
<!--quoteo(post=1645821:date=Aug 27 2007, 08:25 PM:name=Zig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zig @ Aug 27 2007, 08:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1645821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not EVERYONE, per se, but most of the people in here. I mean, I'm over Halo... I'm looking forward to 3 but I'm not as crazy about it, by any means, as I used to be. I'm not even really that crazy about gaming anymore. Really, I'm not biased either way when it comes to Halo, because I just don't care.
But don't tell me that you can't make the same simple observation, just by skimming over a couple posts, that a lot of people just jump onboard the "I don't like this because [x reason that's been repeated over and over in every discussion board out there]" for some kind of vague and pointless sense of community with other people who claim not to like the same thing.
It's just like straightedged kids in high school. "Oh, drugs are totally bad and you're like, a <i>weak person</i> if you let them into your life." That takes absolutely no conscious thought or personal consideration to say, but it sure sounds right and you can be confident that other people think that way (or at least talk that way), so you can feel righteous about it.
That's my take on all this crap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->There may be people who really fanboy over Halo, but considering the responses so far in this thread they're unlikely to break the mould.
So basicallly, Zig, your belief is that anyone who disagrees with the trend is doing so plainly out of spite for the trend, and not because of conscious thought? Isn't it rather hypocritical to immediately assume all those with a differing opinion are ignorant, when that's exactly what you're accusing of those who disagree with the trend?
I guess I'm your walking contradiction here, because I can think for myself, and I've come to the opinions I've posted here by myself, of my own free will. I can play a game close to a decade and have fun, while being challenged. That feeling is more difficult to obtain with newer games, especially when I have to find a way to disable all the gameplay hints to make it more like the older game I enjoyed.
It seems as if you're trying to equate the quality of a product by its sales figures, which isn't that accurate.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1645951:date=Aug 27 2007, 08:43 PM:name=MedHead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MedHead @ Aug 27 2007, 08:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1645951"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So basicallly, Zig, your belief is that anyone who disagrees with the trend is doing so plainly out of spite for the trend, and not because of conscious thought?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I already told you. Not <b>anyone</b>. Just <b>most of you</b>.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't it rather hypocritical to immediately assume all those with a differing opinion are ignorant, when that's exactly what you're accusing of those who disagree with the trend?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Again, not <b>all</b>. Just <b>most</b>.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess I'm your walking contradiction here, because I can think for myself, and I've come to the opinions I've posted here by myself, of my own free will.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't mean anything personal by this, but don't flatter yourself. I think I can better illustrate that I wasn't addressing YOU specifically by telling you that I actually DIDN'T read your posts in this thread until now. Does that make you feel any better? You are a unique and beautiful snowflake.
<!--quoteo(post=1645984:date=Aug 28 2007, 07:40 AM:name=Zaggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zaggy @ Aug 28 2007, 07:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1645984"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I blame consoles and devs porting console games to the pc.
Oh, ye olde time when games were fugly but innovative. (Dune 2 & Duke Nukem 3D)
And what do we get now?
Face melting graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Those games weren't fugly when they were released, they only look fugly in retrospect and comparison.
<!--quoteo(post=1646066:date=Aug 28 2007, 12:28 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Aug 28 2007, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646066"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those games weren't fugly when they were released, they only look fugly in retrospect and comparison.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> the ladies in the cocoons in Duke3D begging for you to kill them were realistic enough to be pretty disturbing =d
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1646066:date=Aug 28 2007, 10:28 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Aug 28 2007, 10:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646066"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those games weren't fugly when they were released, they only look fugly in retrospect and comparison.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They only look ugly, because they are.
<!--quoteo(post=1646147:date=Aug 28 2007, 06:05 PM:name=Liku)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liku @ Aug 28 2007, 06:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646147"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They only look ugly, because they are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you have to be careful. Everyone always thinks that their computer games are super pretty and the older ones are ugly. That part in Unreal where you step outside used to be beautiful, like, top of the line awesome, and now it's ugly. We look at stuff like Bioshock or Gears of War (or Grays of War I guess) and think they look pretty awesome, but 10 years from now people might say "they look ugly because they are." It's all about expectations.
<!--quoteo(post=1645816:date=Aug 27 2007, 02:08 PM:name=Drfuzzy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Drfuzzy @ Aug 27 2007, 02:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1645816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol you DO need navigation in halo, because every room is copy and paste and you cant tell if its the room you just left or the room before it. XD
Man halos map design blows.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> that's what the glowy arrows are for
If it's any consolation, I don't really dislike Halo. I just don't think it's a very special game and it's over-rated. I am pretty annoyed by the dumbing down/lowering difficulty level for people's parents, however. It's a real worry for me. Even Ninja Gaiden Black isn't that hard, and they're making already not-that-hard-games easier.
In general, I like the way games have gotten easier... well, when I say 'easier' I mean 'less tedious'. Back in the day, you had a set number of lives and when you ran out, you had to start over from the beginning. Getting to Bowser in SMB1 and running out of lives and continues was not cool.
I don't find it worthwhile to play most games on 'hard' difficulty either. All that leads to is having to reload and continue 10 times more often. Maybe that adds to the 'value' of the game if you're poor and can't afford as many games, so you can spend more hours trying to beat one on hard rather than using that same amount of time to beat two games on 'normal'... but what I want is a smooth, immersive experience from start to finish. things like quest arrows in Halo are not necessary for an experienced gamer, but I can see how they would add to the experience of a newer gamer. I don't necessarily have to be challenged to be having fun. It's nice to be challenged, but it's a fine line between being challenged and being frustrated...
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1646150:date=Aug 28 2007, 05:55 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Aug 28 2007, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646150"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, you have to be careful. Everyone always thinks that their computer games are super pretty and the older ones are ugly. That part in Unreal where you step outside used to be beautiful, like, top of the line awesome, and now it's ugly. We look at stuff like Bioshock or Gears of War (or Grays of War I guess) and think they look pretty awesome, but 10 years from now people might say "they look ugly because they are."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not true, certain games still have beauty to them and they're really dated. Like Prince of Persia or Beyond Good and Evil. I've never played Duke Nukem 3D thinking "this is beautiful." Sure at the time it might of had top of the line graphics, but other than that there's no beauty in it.
I say higher difficulty settings have their merit if you're coasting through fights without any real resistance. I find that the perfect difficulty setting is one that constantly forces you to fight hard, but doesn't kill you too often. Which is, of course, totally dependent on the individual player. There may not be a perfect difficult for you because you happen to fit inbetween two settings, one being too high and the other too low.
Oh, and Ico is a very beautiful game, and I can't imagine that ever changing.
I like the difficulty settings on Touhou games. Easy - You might be able to beat it (with some practice.) Normal - You might be able to get to the last boss (if you're lucky.) Hard - You might be able to get to the second level (if you sell your soul.) Lunatic - Continue? (Y/N)
Comments
The new Sam and Max game(s) are okay, but, the first couple of episodes at least (I haven't tried the later ones) needs more freeroaming/larger areas, reason being that you then get more cross-area-action for more complex puzzles and whatnot.
As long as you can turn them off, I don't mind. A hud shouldn't give away the exact location of an enemy, as some newer games tend to do, that's just stupid (NS tracking systems are ok, because they aren't working all the time and cost resources)... Also iron sights > crosshairs.
@ Dirty_Harry_Potter
I still want my Full Throttle 2! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
[edit]
To add something to this "fear" of games getting "easier". That's why we have mod teams to fix the things, which are broken, as Forgotten Hope has done with BF42 or to be innovative as UWE has done <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I don't play NS anymore, but still play FH. And from what I've seen (not to be elitist or anything) I've asked some people I know to come and play FH with/vs my regular group. These invited guys only play BF42 or Desert combat for BF42 (in BF42 mod/games, they do play other stuff) and are very impressed with FH and all the stuff that has been added (the main alure).
Anyway, they tend to quit Forgotten Hope very fast into a round, because of all the knowledge you need to have for what your weapon can or cannot kill (Sherman tank vs King Tiger for example) Also where you hit a tank and the angle of attack plays a big role in doing damage or destoying them. It kind of scares them off, since they don't want all this skill and knowledge requirement.
Sme maps in FH can be quite imbalance, due to historic accuracy. FH-ers don't mind, but new players see this as unfair. All be it there are some maps, 4 I think, which are badly designed in terms of gameplay and historic realism. But then again they aren't played much <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
And when we come over to their games, they tend to give up very quickly as well. Because we probably use better tactics and aiming selftought from FH. Also aiming in BF42 and DC is way easier to do well then in FH, hence the edge, I guess...
As I said they do enjoy the game FH, but if they can't get to kill or are killed a lot themselves then will stop playing. Mostly the reason why games, catered for the bigest market, seem to be getting this newbie friendliness.
I blame the Wii, yep...
Man halos map design blows.
But don't tell me that you can't make the same simple observation, just by skimming over a couple posts, that a lot of people just jump onboard the "I don't like this because [x reason that's been repeated over and over in every discussion board out there]" for some kind of vague and pointless sense of community with other people who claim not to like the same thing.
It's just like straightedged kids in high school. "Oh, drugs are totally bad and you're like, a <i>weak person</i> if you let them into your life." That takes absolutely no conscious thought or personal consideration to say, but it sure sounds right and you can be confident that other people think that way (or at least talk that way), so you can feel righteous about it.
That's my take on all this crap.
back on topic - I like when my crosshairs turn red over an enemy, and in-game radar to tell me where baddies are... I think FarCry did it pretty well where you have to scout out enemies with your binos first before they show up on your radar. best of both worlds.
Wasn't there a really unforgiving but cool modern combat FPS released early this year for the PC? might want to check that out if you think FPS games with radars and color-coding are too dumbed down
But don't tell me that you can't make the same simple observation, just by skimming over a couple posts, that a lot of people just jump onboard the "I don't like this because [x reason that's been repeated over and over in every discussion board out there]" for some kind of vague and pointless sense of community with other people who claim not to like the same thing.
It's just like straightedged kids in high school. "Oh, drugs are totally bad and you're like, a <i>weak person</i> if you let them into your life." That takes absolutely no conscious thought or personal consideration to say, but it sure sounds right and you can be confident that other people think that way (or at least talk that way), so you can feel righteous about it.
That's my take on all this crap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->There may be people who really fanboy over Halo, but considering the responses so far in this thread they're unlikely to break the mould.
Halo is an inferior game to any PC shooter. This is the forum for fanboy/niche PC shooter.
You do the math.
I guess I'm your walking contradiction here, because I can think for myself, and I've come to the opinions I've posted here by myself, of my own free will. I can play a game close to a decade and have fun, while being challenged. That feeling is more difficult to obtain with newer games, especially when I have to find a way to disable all the gameplay hints to make it more like the older game I enjoyed.
It seems as if you're trying to equate the quality of a product by its sales figures, which isn't that accurate.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't it rather hypocritical to immediately assume all those with a differing opinion are ignorant, when that's exactly what you're accusing of those who disagree with the trend?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Again, not <b>all</b>. Just <b>most</b>.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess I'm your walking contradiction here, because I can think for myself, and I've come to the opinions I've posted here by myself, of my own free will.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't mean anything personal by this, but don't flatter yourself. I think I can better illustrate that I wasn't addressing YOU specifically by telling you that I actually DIDN'T read your posts in this thread until now. Does that make you feel any better? You are a unique and beautiful snowflake.
Oh, ye olde time when games were fugly but innovative. (Dune 2 & Duke Nukem 3D)
And what do we get now?
Face melting graphics.
Oh, ye olde time when games were fugly but innovative. (Dune 2 & Duke Nukem 3D)
And what do we get now?
Face melting graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Those games weren't fugly when they were released, they only look fugly in retrospect and comparison.
the ladies in the cocoons in Duke3D begging for you to kill them were realistic enough to be pretty disturbing =d
They only look ugly, because they are.
Well, you have to be careful. Everyone always thinks that their computer games are super pretty and the older ones are ugly. That part in Unreal where you step outside used to be beautiful, like, top of the line awesome, and now it's ugly. We look at stuff like Bioshock or Gears of War (or Grays of War I guess) and think they look pretty awesome, but 10 years from now people might say "they look ugly because they are." It's all about expectations.
Man halos map design blows.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's what the glowy arrows are for
I don't find it worthwhile to play most games on 'hard' difficulty either. All that leads to is having to reload and continue 10 times more often. Maybe that adds to the 'value' of the game if you're poor and can't afford as many games, so you can spend more hours trying to beat one on hard rather than using that same amount of time to beat two games on 'normal'... but what I want is a smooth, immersive experience from start to finish. things like quest arrows in Halo are not necessary for an experienced gamer, but I can see how they would add to the experience of a newer gamer. I don't necessarily have to be challenged to be having fun. It's nice to be challenged, but it's a fine line between being challenged and being frustrated...
Not true, certain games still have beauty to them and they're really dated. Like Prince of Persia or Beyond Good and Evil. I've never played Duke Nukem 3D thinking "this is beautiful." Sure at the time it might of had top of the line graphics, but other than that there's no beauty in it.
Oh, and Ico is a very beautiful game, and I can't imagine that ever changing.
Easy - You might be able to beat it (with some practice.)
Normal - You might be able to get to the last boss (if you're lucky.)
Hard - You might be able to get to the second level (if you sell your soul.)
Lunatic - Continue? (Y/N)
Also: Emo Crymo.