Wow! It's been a while!
voogru
Naturally Modified (ex. NS programmer) Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1827Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
Naturally Modified (ex. NS programmer) Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1827Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
I figured I'd post and say hello. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I'm paying attention to NS2 developments and I'm thrilled about how things are going to be very mod friendly. I read the blog about the LUA in NS2 and chuckled when 2 of the 3 mentioned mods were mine (phase gate menus & fireworks).
I see that it's going to be so mod friendly that I finally do realize what Flayra was talking about when there could be too many servers with mods that nobody can find a server that is considered 'pure'.
I think it's important for players to be able to determine if a server is pure or not before joining, as a server with less noticable mods may try to pass itself off as a 'pure' server, and this would also be important for league play.
A quick suggestion on how to potentially solve this problem, 'pure' version of the scripts could be encrypted in an archive file, and then read by the server code, while a second copy the scripts can be in plain text in another directory.
The archive file could be used when "mp_pure" is 1, when it's 0, the flat files are used. Maybe for the potential to use different "script" directories as well to easily switch between modes after a map restart.
I'm not quite sure how they implemented everything with the LUA system. But I just figured I'd make a suggestion <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Other then that, I hope phase gates get a fancy menu in NS2. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I see my birthday h4x is still in effect.
Ahh... memories..
<img src="http://www.voogru.com/images/1337bday.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
1340 years old now
grin.
I'm paying attention to NS2 developments and I'm thrilled about how things are going to be very mod friendly. I read the blog about the LUA in NS2 and chuckled when 2 of the 3 mentioned mods were mine (phase gate menus & fireworks).
I see that it's going to be so mod friendly that I finally do realize what Flayra was talking about when there could be too many servers with mods that nobody can find a server that is considered 'pure'.
I think it's important for players to be able to determine if a server is pure or not before joining, as a server with less noticable mods may try to pass itself off as a 'pure' server, and this would also be important for league play.
A quick suggestion on how to potentially solve this problem, 'pure' version of the scripts could be encrypted in an archive file, and then read by the server code, while a second copy the scripts can be in plain text in another directory.
The archive file could be used when "mp_pure" is 1, when it's 0, the flat files are used. Maybe for the potential to use different "script" directories as well to easily switch between modes after a map restart.
I'm not quite sure how they implemented everything with the LUA system. But I just figured I'd make a suggestion <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Other then that, I hope phase gates get a fancy menu in NS2. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I see my birthday h4x is still in effect.
Ahh... memories..
<img src="http://www.voogru.com/images/1337bday.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
1340 years old now
grin.
Comments
I used to be a donator on your servers long long ago <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Really happy to see you back <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
I'm paying attention to NS2 developments and I'm thrilled about how things are going to be very mod friendly. I read the blog about the LUA in NS2 and chuckled when 2 of the 3 mentioned mods were mine (phase gate menus & fireworks).
I see that it's going to be so mod friendly that I finally do realize what Flayra was talking about when there could be too many servers with mods that nobody can find a server that is considered 'pure'.
I think it's important for players to be able to determine if a server is pure or not before joining, as a server with less noticable mods may try to pass itself off as a 'pure' server, and this would also be important for league play.
A quick suggestion on how to potentially solve this problem, 'pure' version of the scripts could be encrypted in an archive file, and then read by the server code, while a second copy the scripts can be in plain text in another directory.
The archive file could be used when "mp_pure" is 1, when it's 0, the flat files are used. Maybe for the potential to use different "script" directories as well to easily switch between modes after a map restart.
I'm not quite sure how they implemented everything with the LUA system. But I just figured I'd make a suggestion <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Other then that, I hope phase gates get a fancy menu in NS2. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I see my birthday h4x is still in effect.
Ahh... memories..
<img src="http://www.voogru.com/images/1337bday.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
1340 years old now
grin.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good to see ya voogru. Yesterday was nsMod's 4th birthday and I was just viewing the archives reading how you were helping prodigy back in March of '03 fire the site up (before it was IPB). It's come along way baby.... ... .. .
I'm not sure what method mE uses bit his <a href="http://www.nsbrowser.org/en/browser/servers/?sid=xgb4ucxaj57z4w4l" target="_blank">Natural Selection Server Browser</a> does a fine job of identifying servers with plugins.
Seriously, customising is fine so long as it's a client thing (HUD, sprites) and not server mods. And yes, that goes back to mp_blockscripts.
Even in a popular game like Counter-Strike 1.6 I spend a long time sifting through the modded servers (warcraft, gungame, deathmatch) for a vanilla one. Okay- I can enjoy the latter two examples, but CS1.6 is popular enough to warrant choice. NS1 was the best competitive game ever made, but NS2 will not acheive CS fame; what with wealthy developers like EA and blockbuster games coming out every 2 months. Just focus on NS_ for NS2.
Mostly popping in, but I do read a bit when I get spare time.
<!--quoteo(post=1646314:date=Aug 29 2007, 02:09 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sherpa @ Aug 29 2007, 02:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646314"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or we could just discourage modding and thus not dilute an indie game.
Seriously, customising is fine so long as it's a client thing (HUD, sprites) and not server mods. And yes, that goes back to mp_blockscripts.
Even in a popular game like Counter-Strike 1.6 I spend a long time sifting through the modded servers (warcraft, gungame, deathmatch) for a vanilla one. Okay- I can enjoy the latter two examples, but CS1.6 is popular enough to warrant choice. NS1 was the best competitive game ever made, but NS2 will not acheive CS fame; what with wealthy developers like EA and blockbuster games coming out every 2 months. Just focus on NS_ for NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't stop modding, especially on a engine such as Source, it wont happen. By making the game mod friendly they are encouraging people to use that interface to make changes, rather than making what are basically hacks, which is most of what I did when making mods, it was pretty much just a big server side hack.
By using a fancy interface to make mods rather than people forced to make hacks, you make it significantly easier to tell modded servers from the unmodded servers because you have more control over mods. NS1 had no control over server-side hacks.
There will be people that abuse the flexibility of course but I believe there is more to gain with a flexible system.
Mods also have a self governing system. If they suck horribly, the server usually loses it's playerbase to another server. This was a real threat in my own community when I did some silly gameplay ideas which I quickly discarded.
I think it's rather unfair for you to claim NS2 will not achive CS fame. You don't know that.
Sure worked out well for xmenu, lerklift, sporemines, etc. You hardly see any servers with those game-altering, balance breaking plugins anymore!
I used to play NS on Steam since version 1.0 or so I think (really cant remember!) but I'm slightly saddened to see that Charlie etc. are going along the Valve route by charging for games that were originally free mods for the original HL.
Now I do understand it takes a lot of time to develop these mods nowadays with all the fancy features of the Source Engine, and ultimately, I am willing to pay for NS2. However I hope there will be some kind of demo/trial version released for free so that we can see what the game is like now.
I would come and check out the website every so often after the site went down and development of NS1 died off, and well it was quite sad to see the community whither away. I can never get myself to play NS even though its installed and ready on Steam. Perhaps my mood will change once I get addicted to the beautiful version that I hope will be NS2.
Anyway, yeah being able to sort out the pure servers from the heathen ones would be great!
Just being able to filter "GAMEPLAY" changing mods and "as god intended the gameplay but still might have mods" would be sweet. (I say that because some of the administration mods are way to useful, even for a "pure" gaming experience.)
Of course, there is so much grey area in here... who knows.
Those last four sentences were written at seperate intervals between phone calls. All functionality in my brain is broken now.
Hmm... funny. I played on a server without any of those just today and it had a reasonable amount of players.
Not familar with any of those plugins other than the lerk lift btw.
If there is such a demand for a non-modded server like you say, why not get a bunch of likeminded friends and start your own?
<!--quoteo(post=1646334:date=Aug 29 2007, 03:51 PM:name=SupaDupaNoodle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SupaDupaNoodle @ Aug 29 2007, 03:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey all. Well it certainly is nice to see the NS community coming back to life.
I used to play NS on Steam since version 1.0 or so I think (really cant remember!) but I'm slightly saddened to see that Charlie etc. are going along the Valve route by charging for games that were originally free mods for the original HL.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People need to eat, pay their mortgage and support their families. There is such a significant time investment into NS that it would be pure foolish to give it out for free. Would you really work hundreds of hours or even thousands of hours on a project for free? I think not. It's one thing if it's Charlie working on NS2 in his spare time, but it's his full time job.
Does it really take that long to make the $20-$30 to buy a game that will provide countless hours of entertainment?
Movies cost $10-$15 bucks a pop and they only last an hour an a half.
I'm a student - I make no money. So yes it does take quite a long time to save up $20-30 to spend on a game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Movies cost $10-$15 bucks a pop and they only last an hour an a half.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Movies these days usually last at least 2 hours, and often up to 3 hours.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People need to eat, pay their mortgage and support their families. There is such a significant time investment into NS that it would be pure foolish to give it out for free. Would you really work hundreds of hours or even thousands of hours on a project for free? I think not. It's one thing if it's Charlie working on NS2 in his spare time, but it's his full time job.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Err yeah, I did say: "<b>Now I do understand it takes a lot of time to develop these mods nowadays with all the fancy features of the Source Engine, and ultimately, <i>I am willing to pay</i> for NS2. </b>"
Please in future read my posts in full before jumping to conculsions and giving lectures.
Thanks
Movies these days usually last at least 2 hours, and often up to 3 hours.
Err yeah, I did say: "<b>Now I do understand it takes a lot of time to develop these mods nowadays with all the fancy features of the Source Engine, and ultimately, <i>I am willing to pay</i> for NS2. </b>"
Please in future read my posts in full before jumping to conculsions and giving lectures.
Thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol.. so if your so poor how can afford a computer, an internet connection, and enough time to troll the forums.. go work and pay some taxes
I think that's completely besides the point. The point is movies are just a few hours while NS lasts until your tired of it.
If you have time to play games, you have time that you could go work to make a few extra bucks to pay for a game if you were so inclined.
Some things that I think are worth mentioning:<ul><li>NS2 is a totally new game, not a Source version of NS</li><li>Without making NS2 a commercial product we can't get full access to the engine, which is necessary for the features we're developing for NS2</li><li>Developing NS2 commercially allows us to work full-time on the game, which means its getting done a lot quicker than if we could only work
nights and weekends.</li><li>Our aim with NS2 is to deliver the same quality of game that you would normally pay $50-60 for, but sell it a a much lower cost (to encourage more people to buy and play it).</li></ul>There will certainly be a demo when we release the game, so you can decide then if we've met that last goal and if the game is worth spending your money on. I hope it is!
I was a student when I donated $20 to constellation and could easily do so. Some of us students actually think about getting part time jobs.
It is completely relevant because <b>you</b> were the one who brough up movie length, not I. And what if you "get tired" of the game within the length of a movie. Then it's a waste of money.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you have time to play games, you have time that you could go work to make a few extra bucks to pay for a game if you were so inclined.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's obvious you have no idea of what it is like to be in full time education. Time required to play games is far less than the time required to work - therefore I <b>do</b> have time to play games but not enough time to work. I am currently on University vacation, that is why I am able to play now. Once term starts that time will be serverely reduced. Of course, I don't expect you to understand that. In any case I much prefer to spend what free time I have with my friends rather than sitting around and lecturing others on an internet forum about a computer game like you. So Sad.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was a student when I donated $20 to constellation and could easily do so. Some of us students actually think about getting part time jobs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good for you. But what you were able to do or not is completely irrelevant.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=whocareswc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(whocareswc)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol.. so if your so poor how can afford a computer, an internet connection, and enough time to troll the forums.. go work and pay some taxes<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What an idiot. I didn't say I'm poor. Students dont have money to throw around on games which were originally free - that was my point. But I'll repeat again: I am willing to pay for this game. Read people's posts in full before overreacting like some sad fanboy. And even people in Africa have computers and an internet connection. Your comment about me having a computer is probably the stupidest thing I have ever heard! Hmmmm you spend so much time scrutinizing people's posts here. Careful or your boss might fire you, Mr.Workalot! Get back to work tbh!
Don't worry about my working. I'm at university, I will get a good job, doing work that involves using my brain (rather than sitting in front of a computer like you, trolling and ranting at posts that werent even directed at you). Soon you'll be seeing my taxes in the form of your damned unemployment benefit!
<b>Max:</b> Thank you very much for your input. As I said in my original post, I have been a fan of NS for a long time, and even without a free demo I would most probably have bought the game anyway! From the concept art I can see that this will be a great game!
I am not going to be commenting on this thread anymore with such <b><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->*I should be nicer.*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> I won't be looking at this thread again, so don't think it's because I've given up - <b><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->*I should be nicer.*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
<b><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->There is no need to make personal attacks against other people.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
The words 'you get what you pay for' are true we were extremely lucky to get NS1 for free as a mod and thats partly why I paid for const even tho we had vet status already.
This is the only comment im going to reply to. If you get bored of NS2 within the length of the movie, then something is wrong. You can't even learn everything about NS in the span of an hour and a half, or two hours or even three.
I brought up the movie element because your paying $15 or so for an hour and a half (or three at most as you say) of entertainment, while NS2 will give you far far more hours of entertainment for just a little bit more money.
Thanks for the personal attacks btw.
Come hang in #naturalselection Voogru. All the cool peeps have made a comeback <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
HAHAHA.. nice, so that would make you a....
um
mathematical theorist ??.. but im sure they run computer simulations as well
<acronym title='Natural Selection 2'>NS2</acronym> was not originally free. From the day it was announced, <acronym title='Natural Selection 2'>NS2</acronym> has been a retail game. Natural Selection, of course, was originally free, but it's going to be free forever, so you don't have to worry about it.