Please, oh please, keep bunnyhop

Prefix

The thought struck me when listening to one of the podcasts,

I remember hearing puzl or someone say that you were possibly changing bhop to possibly a different form of movement to decrease the fps dependency,

Making bhop not so fps dependent would be great, but please don't take out bhop for another form of movement.

It balances the game and it suits the aliens imho,

so yeah,
keep it in!

( PS: I couldn't decide if this was suited for the Ideas Forum or the General Forum as it isn't really an idea :S )

Darkns

Bhop might be the best-loved 'feature' that gets removed from NS2.
As much as we love it, it's still a movement glitch. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
They might just end up re-working it to be more accessible or natural, though still similar.
Also, just because it helps balance NS doesn't mean it will be a necessary component in balancing NS2. This isn't a straight port; it's a different game.

CanadianWolverine

<!--quoteo(post=1648061:date=Sep 7 2007, 10:10 PM:name=Darkns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darkns @ Sep 7 2007, 10:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bhop might be the best-loved 'feature' that gets removed from NS2.
As much as we love it, it's still a movement glitch. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
They might just end up re-working it to be more accessible or natural, though still similar.
Also, just because it helps balance NS doesn't mean it will be a necessary component in balancing NS2. This isn't a straight port; it's a different game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Quote For Truth.

Braveheart

Well it would not be as bad if they stopped bunny hoping for marines as it would be for them to stop it for Aliens.

aeroripper

I'd rather see some built in skill based movement that advanced players can learn, rather than getting better at an engine glitch. FWIW, bunnyhopping is a lot of fun.

pSyk0mAn

I agree that it should be more accessable for new players, but I like about bhop and air control that you don't have to bind another key to use it.
Additional keys (sprint key or air-strafe <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />) wouldn't necessarily help new players to learn and master it considering that some are already overwhelmed with binding the weapon slots to use fastswitch or with managing the commander hotkeys.

c0ke

i think "features" like bhop are one of the keyparts holding NS alive. if there was nothing you can improve nearly infinitly, a lot of ppl would've already quit ns imo.

i hope bhop (etc) is being kept in NS2, and it should definitly not be available for everyone(meaning it should not be too easy to learn). else a lot of ppl will play NS for a few months, think they've now learned and mastered all masterable, and move on.

imo, its very interesting when theres something for new ppl thats hard to learn, so they have some kind of goal high above. and since bhop is not bhop you can still master it more and more. so beside of your aim, you can improve your movements efficienty permanently.
and i dont think its really worse for new ppl, because you do not requier thos skills to be a good player, its just for "perfectionists". so it should be more a kind of motivation for the majority to train and play more x)

Prefix

<!--quoteo(post=1648098:date=Sep 8 2007, 09:12 AM:name=c0ke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(c0ke @ Sep 8 2007, 09:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648098"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think "features" like bhop are one of the keyparts holding NS alive. if there was nothing you can improve nearly infinitly, a lot of ppl would've already quit ns imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So true

Isamil

bunnyhopping is long-lasting fun
should NS2 be long-lasting fun?


why do people have a problem with it being an "engine glitch"? by virtue of it being a product of the engine, hence not forced in, it works seamlessly with the game.

Darkns

<!--quoteo(post=1648098:date=Sep 8 2007, 01:12 AM:name=c0ke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(c0ke @ Sep 8 2007, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648098"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think "features" like bhop are one of the keyparts holding NS alive. if there was nothing you can improve nearly infinitly, a lot of ppl would've already quit ns imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know some people will load up bhop training maps and run around for a while, but I don't think most of the user-base is staying on just because NS has bhop. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=1648134:date=Sep 8 2007, 08:52 AM:name=Isamil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Isamil @ Sep 8 2007, 08:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->bunnyhopping is long-lasting fun
should NS2 be long-lasting fun?
why do people have a problem with it being an "engine glitch"? by virtue of it being a product of the engine, hence not forced in, it works seamlessly with the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For a game like NS that focuses so much on immersion, bhop doesn't really fit. It's just not a natural motion. As much as some people detest it, HL2 was much closer to a believable alternative. I think it would be interesting to try something like the HL2 bhop with skulk, except when bhopping, the jump height is lower, so the general effect is more like a full-tilt run or sprint.
I'm pretty sure we can trust that whatever mechanism they choose, it'll play well. The Devs play the game too, after all. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

Radix

I wonder if you could enhance the player movement system alongside airspeed control so that airspeed control was reduced in power <i>comparatively</i> but not actually changed or removed.

I wonder if any devs have thoughts on that.

Isamil

<!--quoteo(post=1648156:date=Sep 8 2007, 02:13 PM:name=Darkns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darkns @ Sep 8 2007, 02:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know some people will load up bhop training maps and run around for a while, but I don't think most of the user-base is staying on just because NS has bhop. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
For a game like NS that focuses so much on immersion, bhop doesn't really fit. It's just not a natural motion. As much as some people detest it, HL2 was much closer to a believable alternative. I think it would be interesting to try something like the HL2 bhop with skulk, except when bhopping, the jump height is lower, so the general effect is more like a full-tilt run or sprint.
I'm pretty sure we can trust that whatever mechanism they choose, it'll play well. The Devs play the game too, after all. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I didn't say it was fun to practice bunnyhopping all day(although it is kind of fun). Playing NS while using bunnyhopping is fun, and NS would be much duller without it.

I stopped caring about immersion in NS a long long time ago. Sure, it's cool the first time you play, but it loses its effect over time. That isn't to say it's not important in attracting new players, but a sustained player base, which depends on how good the gameplay is, does the same thing.
Gameplay > graphics(which covers immersion)

c0ke

ye, who really cares if it fits (with the reality and such) ?
its all about gameplay, and especially aliens without bhop (etc) would soon be kinda boring imo. you're walking alot through the map as alien.

aiming and strategy are main parts of a lot of games, but the pure movement rarly is. i honestly dont like games where you just walk around and kill. now linking this with some strategy would not really make it unique. and it wouldnt be NS2. <b>atleast</b> the aliens need to be able to enhance their chances by enhancing their movement-skills.

the harder and interisting the endgame-content is to master, the longer will ppl try and keep playing. it just needs to be "balanced" and fair, like bhop (etc) is. so i can honestly not see why it should be <i>removed</i>

tigersmith

<!--quoteo(post=1648093:date=Sep 8 2007, 03:04 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aeroripper @ Sep 8 2007, 03:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd rather see some built in skill based movement that advanced players can learn, rather than getting better at an engine glitch. FWIW, bunnyhopping is a lot of fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

aeroripper you hit it right on the bullseye. Hopefully they will put some of these into NS2,

J!

We will attempt to replace bunnyhopping with something better. Something that is easier to learn (yet still difficult to master), more useful, and at least as fun to use.

I love to bunnyhop, so I know how difficult this will be, but we have some cool ideas and we're confident you'll like them.

Prefix

Sweet,
as always we will just have to have faith in the developers :S

EDIT: if there is nothing like bhop in ns2, i wont be buying it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> oj lol.

eoy

What has always made NS special for me is how much you can improve on simple movement. Have you ever watched those crazy lerks who just know exactly how they should be flying around in a room with 6 marines without taking any hits, that's pure skill and practice for you! Bunnyhopping is the major aspect that makes a skulk enjoyable to play in my opinion, and yes, I'm one of those who load up normal ns maps just to run around and practice bj. The fact that ns-jumped movies are being made and are immensely popular should at least be some sort of guideline for the popularity and importance of this "glitch". You're saying it should be more accessible to new players? I don't agree. The movement mechanics is what defines ns, and especially bj has always been something you can work on to improve, even after you've mastered aiming and shooting (which can really be found in any other fps on the market).

CanadianWolverine

<!--quoteo(post=1650188:date=Sep 18 2007, 01:37 AM:name=eoy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eoy @ Sep 18 2007, 01:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1650188"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What has always made NS special for me is how much you can improve on simple movement. Have you ever watched those crazy lerks who just know exactly how they should be flying around in a room with 6 marines without taking any hits, that's pure skill and practice for you! Bunnyhopping is the major aspect that makes a skulk enjoyable to play in my opinion, and yes, I'm one of those who load up normal ns maps just to run around and practice bj. The fact that ns-jumped movies are being made and are immensely popular should at least be some sort of guideline for the popularity and importance of this "glitch". You're saying it should be more accessible to new players? I don't agree. The movement mechanics is what defines ns, and especially bj has always been something you can work on to improve, even after you've mastered aiming and shooting (which can really be found in any other fps on the market).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Eoy, you rock! I agree with you big time. Seriously, the Kharaa movement totally fits with things like bunny hopping, which with a skulk looks more like a full out run of a wolf or a gazelle busting out on an a african plain.

Its when a Marine starts "pogo sticking without the pogo stick" that I think "Damn, I am playing one silly game. I think I'll turn on the flash light of peace and ask to ride a onos..." Even watching a Marine be agile isn't so bad, if it didn't look so silly and require such intuitive movement as timing your jumps while strafing and gains in speed on slopes ... and so on.

Just so there is no longer any confusion, I want to now call Marine bunny hopping: <b>Invisible Pogo Sticking</b>.

SamR

just because bhopping is a glitch doesn't necessarily mean it should be removed, and the idea of making it an actual part of the game is appealing.

in Street Fighter 2 for the Amiga 500, if you hammered all the buttons, then let go of your controller, the game would carry on doing all these moves that you'd already asked it to do. this was a bug, but people loved it, and that's how the combo was born.

now unknown worlds are going to create the bhop ?! would be pretty funny if you had a counter telling you how many hops you'd done in a row.

Soylent_green

<!--quoteo(post=1648093:date=Sep 8 2007, 02:04 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aeroripper @ Sep 8 2007, 02:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd rather see some built in skill based movement that advanced players can learn, rather than getting better at an engine glitch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's not an engine glitch. The movement physics of half-life is in pm_shared.c of mod SDK. It can be fixed satisfactorilly in a coffee break if any dev really cared.

Ihmemies

Bunnyhopping is bad desing and I never liked it. Good if they get rid of it, for good. Crouch jumping is another nonsense feature. There are better ways to require skill from player <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

Ahnteis

Yes, bunny hopping has certainly helped TFC stay alive a long time -- and the lack of bunny hopping has made Counter-Strike a complete failure.

xposed-

Bunnyhopping was one of the techniques I craved to master and kept me playing the game. NS won't be the same without it, or something similar.

roflgator

this argument is just going to be people who can bhop vs people who cant

Ihmemies

<!--quoteo(post=1652279:date=Sep 26 2007, 04:21 PM:name=roflgator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roflgator @ Sep 26 2007, 04:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1652279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this argument is just going to be people who can bhop vs people who cant<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You forgot people who can, but don't want to.

Ahnteis

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bunnyhopping was one of the techniques I craved to master and kept me playing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm sure this sentiment is shared by a lot of players. But it's also at odds with a lot of players. I was just pointing out that, to claim bunnyhopping will lead to success is not a logical conclusion.

Domining

<!--quoteo(post=1652427:date=Sep 26 2007, 09:26 PM:name=Ihmemies)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ihmemies @ Sep 26 2007, 09:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1652427"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You forgot people who can, but don't want to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hahaha, good one.

Keep bhopping <b>AND</b> add another form of movement that includes lots of skill and takes lots of practice to get to a decent level.

eoy

<img src="http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/3296/bunnyhoppf3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Just came across this (probably old) picture <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

Wyattx3

Bunny hopping was fine for aliens because, theyre aliens! Bunnyhopping was only bad when marines could do it without a ledge.

Besides, as long as you feel like a TSA hungry alien, and not a rabbit with sharp pointy teeth, whats more to worry about?

Cursed

Bunnyhop pwns so I hope the replace will be as good and fun to learn..

Vman

can someone pm me how to bunny hop >_< I sereously would like to learn (pm me a server where you learn it or something)

See i say, KEEP BUNNY HOP! and i have no clue hwo to do it... meh ill just... be a <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/siege.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::siege::" border="0" alt="siege.gif" />