Laser Mines

Faz

<div class="IPBDescription">A Plea</div>I know there must be a million posts about laser mines and why were they taken out but im here again pleading and trying to give a bood arguement why they should be brought back..

<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Firstly:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Ok I only want mines that are placed on vertical surfaces to have the beam active, Reason being i still wanna be able to place mines on the floor that are not easily seen to the aliens to help defend res towers and get the odd but effective random mine kill.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Secondly:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Placing mines on a doorway in a way that the even a skulk cannot pass with out blowing up at least one of the mines helps the marines straticly and also will bring out the gorges to come and spit them down thus either wasting res for the marines or saving it, I would plant the mines so that wither 3 or 4 mines cover the doorway evenly thus cutting down on marine base rushes at the begining of the game<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Thridly:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->By having the option to get the more cheaper mine defences down at the begining of the game will also maybe stop the marines for ELEC rushing all the res nodes once the marines find out the aliens have sensory chambers, making the game a bit more fair for an earlie detected sensory chamber type of game, I think you could also make electrification cost a little more to encourage this type of play.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

ShadowedEclipse

Hmm, kind of mixed feelings on this one. While I think mines are under-utilized in many games because they have so many counters (spit, acid, bile, and the fact that any fade or onos can just set them off without dying most of the time) and they are of course one shot technology, they can still be very useful. They can stop skulks from advancing on a location just because they are there (sometimes). But at the same time one gorge can blow through an infinite number of these things without taking a scratch (As long as no marines are around). So yeah they could use the laser upgrade so they can more effectively block off areas, but I'm not sure this if this is too good for a cheap and spam-able defense. Laser mines could effectively seal off doors and areas quickly and cheaply, and unlike the current mines, no matter how skilled a skulk you are, they could be set up so you just cannot get to a structure without help or sacrificing yourself. Considering they would still be vulnerable to the standard counters, and that those counters will probably only get more numerous in NS2, this might be needed.

I think vote <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->YES<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> as long as there is a limit to how far the laser can extend, so you couldn't lay a mine on the floor and have it peg someone off the roof (except in small rooms of course).

Faz

I only meant for them to be used more at the begining of the game and if you give mines yes your saving res but also slowing down the speed in which the marines can get thier upgrades and hand nades ect, it will change the game quite alot really

schkorpio

<b>why not a battlefield2142 approach to mines - mines are motion based(and give them a slightly bigger explode radius), rather than proxy, so an alien can very slowly walk past them (which leaves them as a target), but also something like marines being able shoot their mines so they can explode them if they see some sneaky alien trying to get through a mine field.</b>

i agree with point number 2, but the rest not too sure about, mines seem to work best as a deterant for the players that spot them but do kill the players that don't. Laser beams just seems like it will make it more obvious there are mines there - but like you said, in door ways it will make them easier to trip - but of course its going to crash the server when the commander drops 100 packs of mines then its not worth it.

Also i think just for effect it would be cool if mines did 1/2 the damage, but came in packs 8 instead of 4 - but then there is that whole crashing the server thing so yeah.

corpsman

<!--quoteo(post=1648350:date=Sep 9 2007, 03:04 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Sep 9 2007, 03:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648350"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also i think just for effect it would be cool if mines did 1/2 the damage, but came in packs 8 instead of 4 - but then there is that whole crashing the server thing so yeah.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hmmm, so it sounds like a simple balancing alteration could fix this problem. The mines cost more and come in smaller packs [2-3], but do more damage. This way they are balanced and with less affordable and less of them placed at a time, servers don't take as big of a hit. Mines were always a problem when more then 20 were used usualy, especially with lasers. So take out the lasers, make them more expensive and dish out less in a pack. They would still get used when the comm deemed it so, but not spammed.

The only other idea I could think of is to give any marine team a one time pack of them. Call it a "call in". When the marines feel the time is right, a call is made and remote packages are sent to locations the comm point to. The packs are a one time use! So the commander calls in for a one time use mine pack, the marines all grab mines and place them around the map/in an area. Not too many of them are deployed, so the servers dont take a hit. Then every 10 minutes a new supply drop [call in] can be made. This would give the feeling of not just a team of marines is doing battle, but there is a greater picture [war] going on around them. So the commander calls in for supplies, and a one time drop of misc weapons, or mines and packs, or whatever is made and dropped after one minute [feel like time is needed for the supplies to be sent to their location].

Other ideas could be used... Maybe on every map there could be a supply spot or two where the marines when reaching it and welding open the room get stuff. Maybe they will find old mines from the "early war days" and they can use them? Mabye they will find an old SG and an HMG, but thats it. It would add to the map in a cool way too I think. Help add a sense of time? Maybe a map where they are trying to reach a crashed drop ship, when they make it to the ship they will find mines and health packs and maybe 2 welders?

I know these ideas are new, but instead of the always static "comm drops X", you could find items, get items dropped in to a team or whatever, and in that way limits items that seem to get spamed like mines!

Underwhelmed

###### no to laser mines, they are overpowered.

Moving_Target0

Although laser mines are fun, they ruin the purpose of mines being something to look out for, and make it rather annoying to walk through a room and get sniped from the other side.

I'd have to vote no on this one, though I like some of the other suggestions.

INKEDOUT

<!--quoteo(post=1648414:date=Sep 10 2007, 03:12 AM:name=Moving_Target0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moving_Target0 @ Sep 10 2007, 03:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Although laser mines are fun, they ruin the purpose of mines being something to look out for, and make it rather annoying to walk through a room and get sniped from the other side.

I'd have to vote no on this one, though I like some of the other suggestions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Do you mean sniped by mines or by marines/aliens, cause neither have scopes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

I'm guessing you mean marines, cause surely you can't be effected by a mine when you set it off from the other side of the room? That wouldn't be a laser mine, that would be a laser <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

I love laser mines, they look soooo cool! Especially when you fill a whole room full of them! The lasers going off also give a good reason for that silly *blip* sound that you get when you walk over a mine. It also allows the aliens to try and weave their way through all the mines, while watching out for the lasers. Which in turn allows marines a bit of time to have a few shots at the aliens. Its all win, win!

The only issue I have with laser mines is when a laser stops before it reaches the other side of the room, it just looks wrong!

ShadowedEclipse

I think if you make mines stronger and more expensive and smaller packs, they will never be used. You have to remember that some lifeforms can take out mines REALLY easily without taking any damage. If you make it so that losing a pack of mines and not getting a kill for it is actually a blow to the res count, they won't be used.

schkorpio

<!--quoteo(post=1648356:date=Sep 10 2007, 07:03 AM:name=corpsman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(corpsman @ Sep 10 2007, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1648356"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmmm, so it sounds like a simple balancing alteration could fix this problem. The mines cost more and come in smaller packs [2-3], but do more damage. This way they are balanced and with less affordable and less of them placed at a time, servers don't take as big of a hit. Mines were always a problem when more then 20 were used usualy, especially with lasers. So take out the lasers, make them more expensive and dish out less in a pack. They would still get used when the comm deemed it so, but not spammed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

thats what i mean though, i reckon mines need to be spammed - the whole minefield thing would be awesome <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
if the server can/can't handle it, thats another story though, but i'm pretty sure hl2 would have a much higher active entity limit than hl1.

ozbirdboy

Tough topic, my vote is <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->YES<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. I thought the beams looked good in ns, and as someone else mentioned, have the beams showing when the mines are placed on the wall however when placed on the ground no lazer appears.