Realistic Firearms
Domining
Join Date: 2007-09-27 Member: 62452Members
Join Date: 2007-09-27 Member: 62452Members
Recently I got in a discussion with MaliciousCode(#betterthanyou) about how dumb the space marine weapons look and function.
1) Why is there a pump shotgun in space?
2) Why does the HMG look like its been there since WW2?
3) Why is there a pump shotgun in space?
4) Why are the marines still using Vietnam war era grenade launchers? Well, even the Vietnam war era grenade launchers fired their munitions a couple hundred feet.
5) Why does the LMG have a scope and infrared?
And finally:
6) Why is there a pump shotgun in space?
How to address these issues:
1) Make it shoot tank sabot rounds, write it off on Phase Tech era recoil compensators. Add an autoshotty, its mandatory.
2) New model that doesn't look as ugly.
3) See #1
4) Use the old gl model from 1.04 and such.
5) Remove em. Er wait, is it there so the new players would be like, hey cool a scope! Where's secondary fire?
6) See #1
1) Why is there a pump shotgun in space?
2) Why does the HMG look like its been there since WW2?
3) Why is there a pump shotgun in space?
4) Why are the marines still using Vietnam war era grenade launchers? Well, even the Vietnam war era grenade launchers fired their munitions a couple hundred feet.
5) Why does the LMG have a scope and infrared?
And finally:
6) Why is there a pump shotgun in space?
How to address these issues:
1) Make it shoot tank sabot rounds, write it off on Phase Tech era recoil compensators. Add an autoshotty, its mandatory.
2) New model that doesn't look as ugly.
3) See #1
4) Use the old gl model from 1.04 and such.
5) Remove em. Er wait, is it there so the new players would be like, hey cool a scope! Where's secondary fire?
6) See #1
Comments
1) Why is there a pump shotgun in space?
2) Why does the HMG look like its been there since WW2?
3) Why is there a pump shotgun in space?
4) Why are the marines still using Vietnam war era grenade launchers? Well, even the Vietnam war era grenade launchers fired their munitions a couple hundred feet.
5) Why does the LMG have a scope and infrared?
And finally:
6) Why is there a pump shotgun in space?
How to address these issues:
1) Make it shoot tank sabot rounds, write it off on Phase Tech era recoil compensators. Add an autoshotty, its mandatory.
2) New model that doesn't look as ugly.
3) See #1
4) Use the old gl model from 1.04 and such.
5) Remove em. Er wait, is it there so the new players would be like, hey cool a scope! Where's secondary fire?
6) See #1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To address issues 1, 3 and 6.
Why was Corporal Hicks using a pump shotgun in the Alien2 movie?
True enough, it is uncommon and I wouldn't mind seeing a better replacement for the shotgun, but it does the job. Plus, when I'm shooting with it I really don't give a damn what it is, as long as it keeps the bugs off of me then it serves it's purpose.
I personally prefer my bullets to lasers, and I don't know what else you can stick in a gun that's still lethal.
About the pump shotgun, I love the shotgun, but I somewhat agree, kind of like... "We can teleport in and out of space craft and over great distances, but we still have to load each shell one by one and pump our shotguns"
I think if they made it work without becoming a noob cannon and still feels like a shotgun, then it'd be nice.
2) Why does the HMG look like its been there since WW2?
4) Why are the marines still using Vietnam war era grenade launchers? Well, even the Vietnam war era grenade launchers fired their munitions a couple hundred feet.
5) Why does the LMG have a scope and infrared?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1,3,6)the great thing about shotguns is that they don't penetrate walls and the likes as deep as bullets. they are very bad for fleshy targets, but armor and harder elements really doesn't mind. i do agree that pump-action isn't very sci-fi, but that has more with verisimilitude and gameplay in fps's than sci-fi. the main reason pump-action is so popular is because its a slow-firing, extremely punishing and relatively forgiving weapon to fire with. even if you don't hit dead-on you still wound things.
2) hl1? can't recall seeing any new models around, so i think that "hl1" fits that answer. the game is 10 years old, graphics have gotten better. the generic design of the gun is based on the teams choice that humans shouldn't have flashy laser-weapons.
4) design choice again, its old school because thats how it was supposed to be. would you be as scared if you ran around killing aliens with a black-hole projector? familiarity with weapons usually give you more empathy to the character you are moving around in the game, and since the gun is half the screen most of the time, its quite important for setting the mood.
5) to aim i bet. if not, to add details to the model. the standard rifle for marines also have a scope, but i can't recall aiming with it.
Anyway, you're talking about the Natural Selection weapons. The direction for the NS2 weapons is quite different and you can read about it <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2007/04/we_re_going_to_need_bigger_guns" target="_blank">here</a>. There are some additional concept images in this <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2007/06/client_side_scripting_and_weapons" target="_blank">blog entry</a>.
lol max just pwn3d you - and politley too.
There is one very very good explanation for all ns's weapons - IT MAKES THE GAME FUN! - if you're after realism, we should probably start by taking out the aliens instead of weapons no? If you ask me, there 100% more fun involved in shooting a gun that goes "RATATATATATAT" reload "RATATATAT" than one that goes PPPEEEEOOOOOOWWWWWWW wabba wabba PEEEEEOWWW" - like in star wars or star trek.
Most games are based on theme's, as well as movies. NS's theme is very gritty, dark future - there is some new technology, but science hasn't solved everything and the future isnt clean,efficient and fake like in star trek.
Until someone actually makes a game which perfectly mimic's real life, so that the player can't tell the difference nobody should even think about saying " thats not realistic" (especially a game thats set in the future, in space, with aliens - how do you know what is realistic - the future hasnt happened yet)
For my closing comment - computer games and realism do not mix, the general moto being FUN > Realism.
EDIT : the shotgun is bada$$ and it has a very futuristic design - NS just wouldnt be NS without it.
When I typed out the word "dumb" I was referring to the relationship with the context, the back story of NS. Marines have solely alien tracking sentry turrets and motion tracking, but can't build a gas operated shotgun?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyway, you're talking about the Natural Selection weapons. The direction for the NS2 weapons is quite different and you can read about it <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2007/04/we_re_going_to_need_bigger_guns" target="_blank">here</a>. There are some additional concept images in this <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2007/06/client_side_scripting_and_weapons" target="_blank">blog entry</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those are looking nice, haven't seen 'em before. I just hope you guys keep the amount of weapons low while keeping their diversity high like you have in NS1 and actually have your weapons fit the futuristic concepts.
STOP!
No laser cannons or black hole generators. Gunpowder base, EM acceleration. You get my cookies.
I do think some more interesting guns could be in ns. I do really like to current LMG and the sketches on the blog for the new one (presumably). BUt i think a secondry fire of some sort is nessesary. I think ns2 should keep a slightly gritty edge to most of its arnsal but maybe one flashy gun near the end of the tech tree could be fun
I believe the fault he is seeing lies in the fact that these are all physically tangable shots [lead bullets], and "in space", in "the future", I would think that the improvemnts that are made to these, would reflect somehow. Maybe the "bullet" is here to stay by design, so the weapon's rounds can have either an changed color model [glowing rounds], or an ALT use upgrade [like lasers on the weapons].
Upgraded shotguns wouldn't just *DO* more damage, but also use different looking rounds and effects through upgrades. So instead of like "the commander SAYS your weaopn is upgraded", what you are firing actually reflects this. Is this possable with some texture work, it could be done for all the weapons?
Weapons 1: Basic round, like lead shot/bullets, with grey textures and Dark Grey writing on them to reflect them being generic rounds/shells. Muzzle flash is normal yellow color still.
Weapons 2: The rounds you see loaded into the chamber are now bright red and reflective, and maybe the muzzle flash is more of a red color.
Weapons 3: Now the rounds you load into your chamber glow blue [like the bullets from the movie Underworld], and when they hit their target, the target or where they hit glows blue for a 1/4 of a second. Grenade exlposions would now also be blue instead of yellow, sort of like an energy burst! And maybe at this point the muzzle flash turns blue, and/or is decreased.
So the round would actually look different, like you are actually recieving upgraded ammunition. the muzzle flash also mabye changes color to reflect this a little bit, or maybe with weapons 3 the muzzle flash is cut in half, making you less noticeable to the aliens and it has a blue color as well?
The red clip or glowing blue clip on these weapons would change what we see in the game too right? So, maybe this would change the way the weapons look also, making them reflective of the upgrade. *shrug* I know making and using a new model for every weapons upgrade is probably not the best diea, but maybe the colors of the ammo used and the muzzle flash could be changed easily enough to achieve this a little more. It is the future...
Just make a picture of a bullet progress in certain ways, you start with one that looks like a FMJ, one that looks like a blank and one that looks like one of those square pulse rifle rounds from Aliens.
Just make a picture of a bullet progress in certain ways, you start with one that looks like a FMJ, one that looks like a blank and one that looks like one of those square pulse rifle rounds from Aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, my idea of having them change in color and the last one having a blue glow to it was because simply changing the color alone will probably not be that noticeable by most. I doubt anyone that isn't really trying to watch it will notice, but I may be wrong. As of right now, the animation is fast [as well it should be], so by simply changing the shape, I doubt anyone would even see it. If however the cases themselves had a very big color change [grey to bright red, to glowing blue energy rounds] then we would see it. Plus, if where they landed had a quick glowing animation [like hot lead], but for just a 1/3 of a second, glowing red for weps 2 and glowing blue for weps 3, then it would reflect enough to show the upgrade. Besides, why would changeing the cartridge from circular to square be worth the effort? There is no oooh or aaah at all in that....
if not, it would have to be added to the UI for players, kinda like the alien defense and offense chambers 'shields' that players see.
Personally, keep the shotgun, make it look better, give the option to research or swap to an auto, but either way it's a classic from Aliens and you just can't go wrong there with a backup weapon like that.
Think of an automatic shotgun as an oversized version of the AK. Its still gas-powered.
As for the visible weapon upgrades, bio shock did it by adding attachments to the weapon with glowing effects, and I can't really see the need for glowing LMGs.
It would be very interesting however, when all the technology is decided upon, if there was a page with pictures and all the little mechanisms and info on marine weapons. Or maybe design related features that in the TSA world was designed to help the marines.
Leave realistic gameplay for Armerica's Army and other proposed 'fire arms simulator' games.
I do however agree with the original poster that in a futuristic, space enviroment, that the TSA would be using weapons ill suited for that enviroment when they have nano-bots (nanites) and phase/portal tech at their disposal, along with whatever else runs the mining operations, colonies, and space ship mobile homes.
Why is there no automatic shot gun? We have one these days, what would the future have? And why don't they shoot slugs or other specialized amunition?
What prevents the recoil and spinning out of control in possible zero-g (space) environments?
What about lasers, microwaves, plasma, and rail/nail weapons? The seige cannon shows some of this is possible, what about other types of weapons that are in their experiment phases (some even in the protype phase) in our own time?
It does bare looking at, to see what can be done in regards to making Marines feel even more futuristic, while at the same time we must remember it is just fiction and we can do whatever we want as long as it is fun to play with and against.
Less damage? Haven't thought about that one?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for the visible weapon upgrades, bio shock did it by adding attachments to the weapon with glowing effects, and I can't really see the need for glowing LMGs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, those looked terrible in Bioshock.
Also about having realistic futuristic weapons, Isn't TSA just a company hired to clear of facilities by their owners? Perhaps the military doesn't want the TSA to have their technology?
Also why would they bring lasers into areas they're trying to protect and clear. I think the answer to this whole thread could be summed up in two sentences, and just because someone wants an auto shotty, the original feel of NS won't change.
Edit: It may also just be more cost effective for the TSA to give marines pump shotguns so they consume less ammunition.
Well, it has been said that NS1 was like the first encounter, and NS2 will be the war. Maybe the military is involved more now?
I always thought the TSA was the name of the human government in this part of space, and the Marines were their military. *shrug* Maybe I need to re-read the back story, its been a while, could some one point me to it?
Automatic shotguns can be as powerful as you want to make them, its just that the particular model of the shotgun deployed by the marines is smaller caliber than the pump "supershotgun/sabot launcher".
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also about having realistic futuristic weapons, Isn't TSA just a company hired to clear of facilities by their owners? Perhaps the military doesn't want the TSA to have their technology?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
TSA is like a futuristic version of the UN that doesn't suck.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Edit: It may also just be more cost effective for the TSA to give marines pump shotguns so they consume less ammunition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol. .50C/shot for an intergovernmental organization. LOL!
TSA is like a futuristic version of the UN that doesn't suck.
lol. .50C/shot for an intergovernmental organization. LOL!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While the shooting time of the auto-shotgun idea is a quick "get in the way and your dead", it also means that there is more reloading time. Remember, if used inproperly, the auto-shotgun spends MUCH more time in the reload "position", then actually firing. Plus, they could play with the accuracy to fine tune it down the road, or whatever. But the regular shotgun has a split second between bursts, so there is a consistancy with ammo going down range. The auto shotgnu WOULD put out alot of lead at once yes, but again, it is spending most of it's time in the reload position, and in order to get all of the lead into the fade using blink, you would have to follow its path better since the accuracy of the weapon would be alot worse. And, you would have to get in closer. HMGs, GLs... I have seen fades take out entire teams of marines with the help of a skulk to change the direction of fire, and a gorge to heal the fade for another round.
Secondary fire is something I have always wanted for the game, I do hope they include it! Maybe instead of an auto-SG, the already existing SG's secondary fire would be a very inaccurate super fast spray like an auto shotgun?
My point is that there should be a secondary fire, instead of a completely new weapon, thus not altering the games upgrade system more then it needs to be, AND most importantly not givnig the developers a whole new weapon to model and implement. Putting an ALT fire system into place is probably alot easier then adding a whole new weapon. I may be wrong, but it makes sense. [changing something that is already there, vs making something totally new and changing the game around it]
Shut up.
FAKE ?!?!?!
Like grenade launchers? ...and hand held grenades? ...and siege turrets which shoot through walls? ...and now flame throwers? Seriously dude, have you played the game?