Street Fighter 4

lolfighter

Death to buttonmashing! All hail 2D fighters!

Geminosity

I only got to play a KoF recently (think it was KoFXI or something; it was on the playstation 3 and the sprites were really, really low rez which made it look bad) and it was rather fun. I think I prefer it over the ole Streetfighter II :3

I could never get into SFIII; every time I watched my friends play or tried it myself I found I didn't really like any of the characters so I never got to experience the whole 'thinking' part of it :o

No matter how many 2D fighters I play though, it's rare I'll enjoy one to quite the same level as guilty gear... I think I love the air game too much (air dashing, double/triple jumping and the like make it hard for people to just go sonicboom/fireball mad.) It just feels much more manouverable as a game.

I tend to find it's harder for people to button bash and win in 3D fighters like soul calibur though; especially if you're playing a long-reach character like knightmare, seung mina or zasalamel. That said though, if they go maxi you have to be careful as he's button bashing personified :3

puzl

This topic is a complete over-reaction based on little information. If you do even a little research you will find that SF4 is a 2D fighter in a 3D scene and that it is very much in line with the style of previous SF2 games. There are some really good interviews with the SF4 lead designer ( the first one was on 1up about 2 months ago ) where he talks about how the game will play.

Anyway, have a look at what 1up has covered on SF4:
<a href="http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3164488" target="_blank">http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3164488</a>

Geminosity

huh? I don't think I said it was a 3D fighter even once :o

Are you generalising or talking about the topic starter?


<b>edit:</b> actually align didn't mention anything about it being 3d in his opener either.
There were some people who didn't know at the start I guess but the last posts before yours puzl are all discussing it as a 2D game. rather cheeky for you to tell others to do their research in a situation like that isn't it? :3

puzl

<!--quoteo(post=1656453:date=Oct 17 2007, 06:30 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Oct 17 2007, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1656453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Apparently, no information available. Fear it will be 3D. Not holding breath.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<!--quoteo(post=1670207:date=Feb 12 2008, 02:10 AM:name=Merkaba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merkaba @ Feb 12 2008, 02:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670207"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Update...it's Street Fighter ™....in 3D.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<!--quoteo(post=1670259:date=Feb 12 2008, 11:24 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 12 2008, 11:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What else would it be? What I can't figure out is whether the gameplay is 2D or 3D. It LOOKS like it's 2D.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<!--quoteo(post=1670270:date=Feb 12 2008, 05:40 PM:name=Liku)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liku @ Feb 12 2008, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670270"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow... that's a god damn disappointment. It's just SF2 in 3D without the sweet style we were expecting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<!--quoteo(post=1670616:date=Feb 15 2008, 07:54 PM:name=Merkaba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merkaba @ Feb 15 2008, 07:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I should have elaborated...it's <i>literally</i> Street Fighter in 3D. Same art, same moves, same character expressions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Geminosity

that's nice but what about the 6 posts before yours huh? I say 6 because that's where Sherpa says what you've already said in your post. quoting earlier than that is rather like telling people there's still hangings taking place in britain by quoting texts from the victorian ages :p

Also I interpretated the "it's streetfighter in 3D" posts by merkaba as meaning streetfighter the 2D game in 3D graphics so I guess that's down to interpretation; I'm more than happy to admit I may have understood those :o

regardless you're still in after the train has left :p

<b>edit:</b> ok, I guess I'm being a bit overly mean here.

I just get irked when I see someone repeating a "this thread is wrong" post when one's already been posted and the people in said topic have apparently taken it on board. This goes double when I already knew the truth because I'd done my research before I posted in said topic myself.

Thanks for the 1up linky though :3

puzl

Everything I have said is true. If you have a problem with it, take it to PM and stop derailing this topic.

Geminosity

No PM required. I've already outlined where I stand and my point :3

Shockeh

Okay, in advance, I am a huge Street Fighter fan, I always have been, although my biggest true love was always Alpha 3. I know Third Strike was a brilliant game, but it didn't have that amazing feel to me. Anyway...

I'm massively disappointed along the lines of Scythe. The game being 2D I don't think was ever in question. It's that perfection of balance in 2D that makes the franchise so successful. But I watched the trailer and got excited we'd see a brave new art style from the kinds of sprite animation, and instead when we get to the actual game, it's Street Fighter 2, remade, in a 3D engine. And I do so love the 'look, we have no detail, but that's for <i>stylistic </i>reasons, okay?'

I wanted Street Fighter IV to be special. As it stands, I don't think this will work out. There's been very, <b>very</b> few successful attempts at a fighter using a 3D engine, one of which was the Soulcaliber franchise (mention that imbalanced POS Tekken and I slap you <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />) Alas, my initial view is it looks like this won't be it.

- Shockwave

lolfighter

Tekken and Soul Calibur are not even comparable. They utilize 3D gameplay, while Street Fighter is 2D.

Merkaba

There is some confusion, I was referring to 3D graphics, not 3D gameplay. I think Liku was too, but not sure.

lolfighter

Well, my point is that the graphics are a front-end, a GUI. They can be swapped out. It doesn't matter whether you slap 2D or 3D graphics on a 2D fighter, the gameplay remains the same.
I guess I should also point out that I consider 2D fighters and 3D fighters to be seperate sub-genres of the fighting game genre.

What I'm mostly thinking about is quote Shockwave:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[...]I wanted Street Fighter IV to be special. As it stands, I don't think this will work out. There's been very, very few successful attempts at a fighter using a 3D engine, one of which was the Soulcaliber franchise (mention that imbalanced POS Tekken and I slap you) Alas, my initial view is it looks like this won't be it.[...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find this comparison odd, since Soul Calibur is a 3D fighter and Street Fighter, graphics aside, is a 2D fighter.

Shockeh

Okay, to clarify:

I do not in any way mean to imply that I thought SFIV would be a '3D Fighter'. However, I expected more from the 3D engine they're now putting a 2D fighter into.

That aside, I think the comparisons between a lot of fighters, both 3D & 2D stays relevant, because a lot of the tactics remain the same. Apart from sidestep dodge (which you can think of tactically as pretty comparable to the Parry system) in all honesty, both Soulcaliber and Tekken generally play using 2D primarily, with a bit of 3D stuck in, mainly because horizontal attacks are so accessible and you can't block so easily. Hell, one of the main reasons that Necrid is banned from pretty much every SCII tournament is that his horizontals are far too reliable & fast. (The crazy damage for his speed doesn't exactly hurt though).

So basically, I disagree with the point, though I concur on the content lolf. They are 3D fighters, but they're generally still played as 2D, and most tactics and styles apply interchangeably between the two. I wanted SFIV to remain a 2D Fighter, or if they did bite the bullet and go 3D, do it 'properly' and balance around it. Shunting it as a 2D fighter in a pretty poor looking 3D engine, I can't see the point.

lolfighter

Well, this is where I disagree. I view 2D fighters as distinctly different from 3D fighters (and generally abhor the latter). For instance, blocking in 2D fighters universally consists of moving backwards, and is highly reliable. 3D fighters generally rely on unblockable moves to discourage overly defensive playing styles, while 2D fighters generally rely on other measures, such as moves that can only be blocked in specific stances or GGX2's guard meter.
I also view the third dimension as rather superfluous in fighting games. People don't literally run circles around each other. It usually just leads to clumsy controls because controls have to be assigned to those functions, sometimes to the exclusion of other, far better options.

Edit: Though to be fair, my experience is primarily with horrible, horrible 3D fighters like Tekken and Dead or Alive. Those may just be piss-poor examples of an otherwise palatable genre. I can't say.

Geminosity

Tekken and Dead or Alive are really 2D fighters. The 3d aspect of them is superfluous.

To date, Soul Calibur is the only 3D fighter I consider truly 3d as you can access the z-axis easily and it's a very valid part of the game.
Unlike the games LF mention, blocking isn't the be all and end all in SC; besides unblockables there's also throws and the high-low option game to break through it. In most experienced games it's more about guard impacting or dodging; and I <b>love</b> dodging :3
It's one of the few games where you can run up to someone, jinking aside to dodge their attack and whap them in the face... it's very satisfying :o

As Shocksy says though, horizontals beat sidestepping and running moves, but horizontals are beat by verticals. Once you start throwing in highs, mids, lows and throws to the mix it gets quite interesting.


My main problem with SFIV is just that the graphics look rather ugly. Ryu certainly looks like he's been streetfighting for a good while judging by the state of his face :s
I also find myself wondering if there'll be the usual limit to the left/right like in the original SFs (in which case from the vids I've seen they're not very clearly indicated) or if they'll be going for a much larger arenas.

Liku

<!--quoteo(post=1670750:date=Feb 17 2008, 04:05 PM:name=Merkaba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merkaba @ Feb 17 2008, 04:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is some confusion, I was referring to 3D graphics, not 3D gameplay. I think Liku was too, but not sure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup, hence why I said "SF2 in 3D" instead of "SF:EX(I think that was the 3D PS game) with updated graphics.

I wouldn't mind it, but the art style isn't striking as the trailer was it's such a let-down.

I'm also not diggin' this roid-raged character design they have it's really over the top; I mean check out Chun-Li's left-hand thumb, it's a god damn bratwurst:
<a href="http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=9191&game_id=4926" target="_blank">http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gal...mp;game_id=4926</a>

lolfighter

In fact, check out that entire hand. I'm sure someone will say "it's perspective," but then the perspective is screwed up. It just doesn't look natural.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1670976:date=Feb 19 2008, 03:27 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 19 2008, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670976"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In fact, check out that entire hand. I'm sure someone will say "it's perspective," but then the perspective is screwed up. It just doesn't look natural.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, her fist is nearly the size of her head. the art style looks silly.

As I said, the art from the trailer would have been win, this just looks like TF2 on roids.

DiscoZombie

maybe they're really early concept shots... hopefully... and they'll get the proportions better in the end...

I *do* like the fact that they're trying to keep the cartoony feel while moving to 3D - I just hope they can pull it off... the trouble putting cartoony characters in a 3D world is that you *expect* 3D humanoids to look human, while cartoons generally *aren't* proportionate... they have to balance the cartoonyness while still having the visuals make sense...

Thansal

Right, but you can do cartoony and unrealistic in 3d (TF2). This is Cartoony with a horrible dash of gritty in 3d. The gritty makes it look like it should be proper, but it isn't, instead we get roid rage chun li (who is supposed to be this tiny little girl)

Geminosity

Chun-Li's art style has always annoyed me; you just don't get that kind of body through martial arts and the like (martial artists, especially female ones tend towards being more slender than repulsively muscular). The weirdest thing was that her legs have always been these horrible, giant, rippling muscles of doom but her arms have been all over the place; most of the time slender but in this case they're as ingrained with heavy macho as the boys.
Her hands make her look like a guy.

Heck, while I'm at it what's with that fireball stance of hers? I mean really... :/

Thansal

in SF II she looked fine, aside from her legs being some what larger then they should (and even there it wasn't really THAT bad).


however, yah.

Her fire ball is just funny.

Liku

Even Ryu's thinking "WTF":

<a href="http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=9191&game_id=4926&id=113513" target="_blank">http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gal...6&id=113513</a>

lolfighter

It's hard to resist the urge to photoshop dotted lines from his eyes on that picture. Seriously.

Thansal

See, if I comment I am going to get banned. So I am just going to stfu on this thread from here on out.

Swiftspear

She totally has manhands.

[edit] HAHA, the fireball looks like it should be coming out of the other side