Alien attack changes
Stoneburg
Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8174Members
Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8174Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Making the aliens more intuitive and balanced</div>If we look at the different roles of the alien classes, both their function within the team (based on their abilities) and their sometime role as a hard counter, I think there's a possibility to tweak the abilities to fit better with their role and make them a bit more intuitive.
I think it is also important to look at the abilities from a perspective of what will be needed during what part of the game. For example, it would make no sense to have "Stomp" as the first ability since it is a HA counter and shouldn't be needed early in the game.
Finally I think the developers need to focus on the needs of the newbies and recreational players ahead of the better clan players. If you look at the most successful Mod of all time, CS, that is exactly what they did.
Every change made was met with outcries from the elite players, taking away (or rather, somewhat reducing) the skill element. The removal of bunnyjumping, the increased recoil etc. All the changes made were designed to give the new players a more level playing field. And I think they were right to do so. If you make it too hard for newbies to play, the game will die. Someone who jumps on a server for the first time just to get completely owned again and again by an elite Fade with no chance what so ever, will probably not come back to the game. Yes, clan players play more and know more about the game, but they will (sooner or later) quit playing (be it because of boredom, other hobbies, work, partners, other games). If you don't make it easy for the newbies, it will simply go the way of QW. You're left with a handful of servers with super-skilled players and anybody trying the game will get a 0-79 frag rate and be yelled at by the others.
Ok, that was a long preface. Here's my comments on the different alian classes and some suggested changes.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Skulk <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->(Scout + light attack)
0 - Bite
1 - Parasite
2 - Leap
3 - Xenocide
As you can see, I don't really advocate any changes to the skulk, I think it fits its role very well. It would however be nice if the leap function could be changed somewhat to make it easier to use. I'd suggest either making it just a really big jump (extend it somewhat) or changing it so that once it impacts something it does an instant amount of damage with a pushback effect (which would make sense).
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Gorge <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->(Support + engineer)
0 - Spit
1 - Healspray
2 - Web
3 - Primal scream
It just does not make sense to me to have the primal scream ability on the Lerk (or the Onos as it started). It's an obvious and effective passive ability that would fit better with the "heart" of the team, the Gorge. This way the gorge will at tier 2 be a good defensive unit for countering HA/JP, and at level 3 be helpful in "base cracking" in a supportive role.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Lerk<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> (Support + JP counter)
0 - Bite
1 - Spikes
2 - Spore
3 - Umbra
Umbra at level 3 makes sense to me as a "base cracking" ability against heavily fortified marines. You could of course argue that it makes the early gorge a bit much of an aggressive unit and not so much supportive, and you'd be right.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Fade<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> (Assault)
0 - Swipe
1 - Adrenaline rush
2 - Acid rocket
3 - Teleport
Fades are definetely the class that needs to be changed the most. They are simply too good in too many ways. The main reason the Fade is so effective is because of its blink ability, making it the most mobile class of all and at the same time making it almost impossible to kill, especially for a team consisting of new players. As much fun as it is to jump on a server, go Fade and single handedly maul the marines, it just doesn't make the game fun (for anyone else) or balanced.
What I have done is remove the blink ability (actually replace it) and the metabolise ability.
Healing should be done by the Gorge, D-chambers or Hive. I suggest replacing it with an "Adrenaline rush" which would be like an individual "Primal scream" only affecting the player (and being expensive to use energy-wise).
Instead of blinking, at level 3 the Fade should be able to teleport anywhere on the map. Initiating the teleport could simply bring up the Map and the player would be able to select a location to teleport to. The action should take a second or two (for example an animation of the Fade crouching and folding into itself) and should use up all the Fades energy. This would obviously be very useful for getting at any hard-to-get Marines, cracking bases or making interesting new strategies.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Onos <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->(Tank + HA counter)
0 - Gore
1 - Devour
2 - Stomp
3 - Bile
The only real change here is getting rid of the "Charge" ability and replacing it with a "Bile" ability. This would function simmilar to the old Bile bombs (affecting structures and armour), and could have a really gross animation of the Onos vomiting out a huge gob of Acid (or a stream if you like).
In general I think the Onos needs to be improved a bit however. After all, it is the final and most expensive evolvement of the race and should be a formidable opponent, not a helpless cow. Beefing up the healt and/or armor and/or damage a bit might be enough though.
And finally, to finish it off (as if this post wasn't long enough), I would suggest a new Alien building:
The <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Egg-spawn<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
For a small amount of resources (like... 2-5). The gorge should be able to lay an egg, identical to a gestation egg. The only difference being that this doesn't have an active lifeform in it yet, but only the potential for one. Then when an alien dies, they would (and should) have the choice of where to spawn. Either in a hive of their choice, or in one of these eggs.
You would at death get an option to for example spawn in:
Maintenance Access Hive
Computer Core Hive
U-Turn Egg
Marine Base Egg
I think that would be an easy and minor addition that would add a fun and strategically interesting part to the game.
[added on edit]: These changes should be considered together with the restructuring of the Alien upgrade system proposed here: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103058" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=103058</a>
I think it is also important to look at the abilities from a perspective of what will be needed during what part of the game. For example, it would make no sense to have "Stomp" as the first ability since it is a HA counter and shouldn't be needed early in the game.
Finally I think the developers need to focus on the needs of the newbies and recreational players ahead of the better clan players. If you look at the most successful Mod of all time, CS, that is exactly what they did.
Every change made was met with outcries from the elite players, taking away (or rather, somewhat reducing) the skill element. The removal of bunnyjumping, the increased recoil etc. All the changes made were designed to give the new players a more level playing field. And I think they were right to do so. If you make it too hard for newbies to play, the game will die. Someone who jumps on a server for the first time just to get completely owned again and again by an elite Fade with no chance what so ever, will probably not come back to the game. Yes, clan players play more and know more about the game, but they will (sooner or later) quit playing (be it because of boredom, other hobbies, work, partners, other games). If you don't make it easy for the newbies, it will simply go the way of QW. You're left with a handful of servers with super-skilled players and anybody trying the game will get a 0-79 frag rate and be yelled at by the others.
Ok, that was a long preface. Here's my comments on the different alian classes and some suggested changes.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Skulk <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->(Scout + light attack)
0 - Bite
1 - Parasite
2 - Leap
3 - Xenocide
As you can see, I don't really advocate any changes to the skulk, I think it fits its role very well. It would however be nice if the leap function could be changed somewhat to make it easier to use. I'd suggest either making it just a really big jump (extend it somewhat) or changing it so that once it impacts something it does an instant amount of damage with a pushback effect (which would make sense).
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Gorge <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->(Support + engineer)
0 - Spit
1 - Healspray
2 - Web
3 - Primal scream
It just does not make sense to me to have the primal scream ability on the Lerk (or the Onos as it started). It's an obvious and effective passive ability that would fit better with the "heart" of the team, the Gorge. This way the gorge will at tier 2 be a good defensive unit for countering HA/JP, and at level 3 be helpful in "base cracking" in a supportive role.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Lerk<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> (Support + JP counter)
0 - Bite
1 - Spikes
2 - Spore
3 - Umbra
Umbra at level 3 makes sense to me as a "base cracking" ability against heavily fortified marines. You could of course argue that it makes the early gorge a bit much of an aggressive unit and not so much supportive, and you'd be right.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Fade<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> (Assault)
0 - Swipe
1 - Adrenaline rush
2 - Acid rocket
3 - Teleport
Fades are definetely the class that needs to be changed the most. They are simply too good in too many ways. The main reason the Fade is so effective is because of its blink ability, making it the most mobile class of all and at the same time making it almost impossible to kill, especially for a team consisting of new players. As much fun as it is to jump on a server, go Fade and single handedly maul the marines, it just doesn't make the game fun (for anyone else) or balanced.
What I have done is remove the blink ability (actually replace it) and the metabolise ability.
Healing should be done by the Gorge, D-chambers or Hive. I suggest replacing it with an "Adrenaline rush" which would be like an individual "Primal scream" only affecting the player (and being expensive to use energy-wise).
Instead of blinking, at level 3 the Fade should be able to teleport anywhere on the map. Initiating the teleport could simply bring up the Map and the player would be able to select a location to teleport to. The action should take a second or two (for example an animation of the Fade crouching and folding into itself) and should use up all the Fades energy. This would obviously be very useful for getting at any hard-to-get Marines, cracking bases or making interesting new strategies.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Onos <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->(Tank + HA counter)
0 - Gore
1 - Devour
2 - Stomp
3 - Bile
The only real change here is getting rid of the "Charge" ability and replacing it with a "Bile" ability. This would function simmilar to the old Bile bombs (affecting structures and armour), and could have a really gross animation of the Onos vomiting out a huge gob of Acid (or a stream if you like).
In general I think the Onos needs to be improved a bit however. After all, it is the final and most expensive evolvement of the race and should be a formidable opponent, not a helpless cow. Beefing up the healt and/or armor and/or damage a bit might be enough though.
And finally, to finish it off (as if this post wasn't long enough), I would suggest a new Alien building:
The <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Egg-spawn<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
For a small amount of resources (like... 2-5). The gorge should be able to lay an egg, identical to a gestation egg. The only difference being that this doesn't have an active lifeform in it yet, but only the potential for one. Then when an alien dies, they would (and should) have the choice of where to spawn. Either in a hive of their choice, or in one of these eggs.
You would at death get an option to for example spawn in:
Maintenance Access Hive
Computer Core Hive
U-Turn Egg
Marine Base Egg
I think that would be an easy and minor addition that would add a fun and strategically interesting part to the game.
[added on edit]: These changes should be considered together with the restructuring of the Alien upgrade system proposed here: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103058" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=103058</a>
Comments
gorge shoud keep bile bomb in my opinion
lerk - needs spore early as a suppression device
fade - currently is too good, shouldnt have both metabolism and blink, but i think uve gone over kill on it, at mid game the fade ur describing sounds pretty lame to me.
Besides this its very likly that an alternate fire will exist for all attacks in NS2 therefore you can expect abilities to double up, i also would not be supprised is another alien class is added changing the alien team balance
NS2 will have ALTERNATE FIRES, so for every ability there is likely a chance it will have two or more portions or options of fire.
so you might see iron sights, crappy scopes, flares double barrle shot guns, lob/drop grenade, proxi till 5 grenade for gl, or shrapnle grenade, belt fed hmg for more ammo but slower rate of fire, alternate fire types, 5 shot burts fully autos, flares, flash lights mounted on guns or lazer sights, fuel drain for flame throw to douse a area in fuel then set it alight, stab for knife and not just fast slash.
kharaa will more than likely benafit from this more, multiple bites with varing energy and reload times, aditionaly tweaks and benafits for all other abilitys.
Fade, giving the fade a long range weapon early i think is a bad idea imo, because it turns the fade into a marine with a rocket launcher, i also think that blink late in teh game would go unused after acid rocket is in. I personally wouldnt touch the fade, i think its pretty spot on as the game is now.
I would give the gorge umbra
and i would give the lerk bilebomb
It'll be great with the Lua scripting though because if the dev team decides they want to try out some of your ideas itll be pretty quick and easy to see how it affects the game.
Now I would hate to nerf either lifeform but I would like to see the times on them extended a little. Being able to gas a team 2 minutes in is a huge thing as the Marines 30 armor goes down very quickly allowing good skulks or lerk to 1 shot most Marines still in the area. This is also good for holding back new players who don't know to charge through the gas. Follow that domination up with a 5 minute fade and you have 2 players who can effectivly control 1-2 main routes or hives on a map. Now I won't cry stack and that is not always the case so here it's just setup and times and abilities. I remember early lerks having only bite and spikes and gas was 3rd and umbra 4th. This worked because they could sit up high and snipe RT's and structures and long range spray at Marines. Now with gas they can wipe 3-5 Marines in short order just by spewing that in a tight area and flying in for bites.
Since I don't want to see weapon damage go up any or shotguns shoot tighter or more spread out. I do hope to see either the res for the kahraa change a little or something else just to increase the times a bit. I think in some runs that a game is easily over for one side or the other within 3-5 minutes of a game. So many are over in 8-10 minutes now that there is little room for error or learning for some people. Hopefully this will be modified somehow come NS2 so games can be played a little longer without such tight and error free runs.
I wouldn't say that the Fades are getting Acid rocket "early", after all the Aliens need two hives up for them to get access to AR in my suggestion.
It seems odd that you would say the Fade is "spot on as the game is now". Obviously the Fade is currently by far the best Alien class and usually the immediate game decider. Sure, it might be spot on from a "fun-to-dominate-and-rip-the-marines-to-shreads" perspective, but I think we can all agree that fun as the class is, it is also extremely unbalanced (simmilar to the early JP+HMG combinations).
The role of the Fade would indeed change if I got my wish, from end-all creature to powerful assault creature. I also agree that without blink, you have to increase the base speed of it a bit or it will become too slow.
I've got to agree with the "leveling the playing field" and making it "newbie friendly". If a game does want to keep a fresh flow of players it has to be easy enough to learn, but chocked with enough layers of complexity to entice new players to come and old to stay.
==Concerning Fades==
If we discuss a bit more about the other aliens classes, one could identify the skulk as a "do or die" class, because for most players they either take down their target marine squad or die. There is less often the, hurt the marine, run away and heal, and then return for the kill.
The lerk is quite nimble, and though in the right hands of a skilled player, is more of a support class with its spore, umbra, primal scream.
The fade is designed to take a beating. The fade belongs to the "hit and run" class. The way that he is able to do this is because of his speed and amount of health. If it is felt that the fade is too powerful one can more simply gimp his speed or health. If you do that too much, he becomes useless for you might as well become a skulk with leap which is a far smaller target to hit.
:Side Note: Sometimes it is overlooked by marines that though it is always nice to kill a fade, just enough bullets into him so that he runs to heal is a successful in staving off an attack
If you were to totally modify the fade, there would no longer be a hit and run class (onos, IMO doesn't count). Be that the case, then you would have to rely on another tactic to get the fade close to marines... stealth. In this scenario, you could implement a few ideas, but all would not be without extensive testing. Some are but aren't limited to...
- old blink (if you sacrifice health)... it would have to be fixed
- dark maps... and made so that gamma freaks can't see you as easily or without flashlights (those would need modifying too)
This would require tons of effort on many peoples parts since proper map developing isn't easy, but with a dark atmosphere is could add a new element to the game where it is not only a fight for res, but for light systems. Light switches turned on and off, building cast light for the marines, maybe certain weld spots for permanent lightage... but that's another topic.
Just remembered... the easiest way (maybe) to gimp, without ruining the fade (I suppose), would be to remove metabolize. This would just increase the amount of time between attacks and increases potential run-ins with marines while low on health whilst a distance from a heal station.
==Concerning the Onos==
As I understand it, the last ability to is make breaking the marine base easier.
Webs -- keep them in
Xeno -- cracks armor
Primal Scream -- aids acid rockets, and bite rates
Acid Rockets -- crack armor
But, charge... other than maybe to run in at blistering speeds to eat a heavy, how does this speed up the ending of the game? Sure it has uses like the said "fast food" tactic, and also moving about the map at a descent speed, but at that point I don't need to get across the map quick, I have three hives to movement to. There must be something of better use than charge, right?
==Concerning the Gorge==
Removing Bile Bomb from 2nd hive I think would be poor choice. If you notice, all 2nd hive abilities are related to base cracking (rather, hive freeing). We wouldn't, of course, want the aliens capable of this at 1st hive, nor make them have to wait until 3rd. Notice the current lineup
Leap -- well, sort of base cracking... close down the distance to the PG
Umbra -- protect the attacking units
Stomp -- onos doesn't really become effective until 2nd hive, stuns enemies in base
Metabolize -- more attack runs for fade
If webs were 2nd hive ability this would hardly aid in an attack, it is more defensive, and in my opinion (with current settings) too powerful to have webs around the map at this point of the game (also consider, if a gorge lays webs, that would encourage more welders, which means marines are more welded up, as a gorge I would have to decide how I want to lead the marine team). Bile doesn't seem overpowered to me, and can be quite difficult at times to get a gorge within range and keep him alive long enough. And for the occasion where the gorge biles from a vent, well shame on the commander <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ... that's part of the level design. (sorry, this section was kind of random)
==Concerning the Other Ideas==
I'd have to try them.
Egg - if the egg was the proposed 2-5 res, then I don't think it would be worth it with the counter-proposed idea that it disappears. I think the gorge would be better off saving the res for a chamber, considering it takes very little time for a skulk or other alien life form to travel the map already.
Lerk - 2.0, right? Could be done... need to try again with current gameplay
I can't even wrap my mind around how you'd balance the game without fades.
Early game:
You have skulks which get shredded by any self respecting marine player hoping to whittle down marine numbers by the time they get to shotgunning your rt. (by luck)
You have lerks which get instagibbed by a shotgunner and can't really afford to attack groups of more than one marine.
Mid-late game:
You have a fade which is basically the only life form which can attack a group of more than one marine and have some semblance of hope to survive afterward.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The role of the Fade would indeed change if I got my wish, from end-all creature to powerful assault creature. I also agree that without blink, you have to increase the base speed of it a bit or it will become too slow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not an end-all creature, it is only a creature which is SLIGHTLY more powerful than a shotgun marine with w2/a1 upgrades. +movement turned all terrible fades (which you could knife so easily) into HI SWIPE I'M LEAVIN WITH 2HP KTHX BAI.
All it takes is 3 shotgun blasts. Get better at aiming and marine movement and terrible fades won't be able to solo you.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->just watch some games of 2 competent clans playing each other and see how balenced the game currently is
....
Get better at aiming and marine movement and terrible fades won't be able to solo you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It really is almost completely irelevant whether clan matches are balanced or not, and suggesting that people "get better" to balance the game is flawed in the same way.
The simple fact is that in order for a game to grow (and therefore survive), it has to be made to fit the newbies. If you had to chose, it would be better if pubs were balanced and matches unbalanced than the other way around, because without the influx of new players who enjoy the game, there would sooner or later be no clan scrims or matches. At the moment, some aspects of the game make it too hard and not very enjoyable for the newbies, and that needs to be corrected.
<i>Cataclyzm:</i> I agree with your analysis for the most part. With the changes I propose the Fade would as you state no longer be a powerful hit-and-run class. However, these changes need to be considered in the context of my other post about restructuring the upgrade system ( <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103058" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=103058</a> ). Using that, the Skulk would now be able to fill the hit-and-run role more successfully than before (multiple upgrades) in the mid game phase.
The most important thing newbs need is a proper tutorial, so they're not scared off by the complexity of the game ...
The most important thing newbs need is a proper tutorial, so they're not scared off by the complexity of the game ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Small hint for you:
DoD and NS together with every other HL-mod together never had half as many servers as CS. NS was never a big game. DoD wasn't very big either and was still way bigger for a way longer time than NS. Personally I think NS was a much better game, but the steep learning curve and fawning to the small playing elite pushed a huge base of players away.
Tutorial? Surely you jest...
DoD and NS together with every other HL-mod together never had half as many servers as CS. NS was never a big game. DoD wasn't very big either and was still way bigger for a way longer time than NS. Personally I think NS was a much better game, but the steep learning curve and fawning to the small playing elite pushed a huge base of players away.
Tutorial? Surely you jest...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its a problem with the fact that ns has so few new players. When ns was thriving, there were a plenty of newbies around. Everyone was happy. Then the official website went down, hl 1 engine got old. No more newbies entering the game, the good players got better and the bad players got a little better or quit the ns. Now its a pain getting into the game because everyone except the newbie has played the game for years. Try starting starcraft now for example.
Sure ns is complex and sure its going to scare away. But it didn't kill ns all by itself. Its more like the thing that happens to complex looking games after they start losing the players.
Logical? Or did I miss a monkey wrench?
So to me, it seems best to implement one or the other... or both with much alteration to said proposals. What do you think?
Logical? Or did I miss a monkey wrench?
So to me, it seems best to implement one or the other... or both with much alteration to said proposals. What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that you're right and both proposals need work. Rather than implementing both fully, I think it would be better to use them as a starting point and have both proposed systems as tools for tweaking balance. It's easier to attain a good mix of balance and fun if you have more factors that you can tweak. Right now I am not sure which mix of changes would be best, mainly because I haven't played the game in a long time.
Also, I think when NS2 is released it will get a huge influx of newbies. Furthermore I do think that it will be critical to have a good instructional base, be it a tutorial or maybe some video-podcasts on different aspects of the game.
Blink = Scissors.
honoustly why take away armor two from hive 2 give us armor three on hive three. serious unlock the final abiltiy at hive two 3 chambers. or some such.
i know i know a bit far fetched but it would be nice to try out on a mod or something
You can't look at any one of these changes alone, this is a complete overhaul of all of the alien abilities. That said there are some concerns.
<!--quoteo(post=1657860:date=Oct 26 2007, 06:15 AM:name=crypt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crypt @ Oct 26 2007, 06:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657860"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again I'm amazed by some of the thoughts/replys... just watch some games of 2 competent clans playing each other and see how balenced the game currently is<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Similar response to above. I agree that NS1 is very well balanced. However there is also a huge focus on the fade in terms of balance. The fade really is the lynch pin of the team and whether the alien team has a good fade or a bad fade almost decides the course of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1657884:date=Oct 26 2007, 09:53 AM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Oct 26 2007, 09:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657884"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't even wrap my mind around how you'd balance the game without fades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree it is a difficult concept especially for the reasons mentioned above. The OP goes by the assumption "higher" lifeforms will be available more quickly based on the rumor floating around that players will not spend as much time as skulks in NS2. In that respect it would be a completely different game.
<!--quoteo(post=1658308:date=Oct 28 2007, 09:30 PM:name=naggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naggy @ Oct 28 2007, 09:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1658308"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A Fade is like the JP counter, or vise versa.. And tbh, killing a JP is anything but hard. If you use your ability's correctly, JP's are cake.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The question is not whether the fade can be effective at killing jps at hive 2 without blink, the question is whether the kahraa can be effective at hive 2. With web back at hive 2 they definitely could be. This is actually a fairly well thought out balance of abilities, but you have to look at all of the classes.
What I don't like about it is it removes some of the traditional roles assigned to the classes. The fade is no longer hit and run(I agree it should have innate celerity at least or else it would be a near useless lesser onos) and it removes the quinessential skill of the fade: blink. The fade, for better or worse, epitomizes the kahraa in movement and attack style: speed coupled with deadly precision melee. I would hate to see that change.
I think without bile it would not be more fun... you just run around and primal and heal and web and run and web and run and run...
well try to do something against a building with primal and spit <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> wohoo rt takes 5 minutes
I also think the fade represents the kharaa like they are.
Fast - Deadly - Ninja Style
Aliens need to be mobile to distract marines to attack from many fronts
btw try blinking through 3 sgs if they are not parasited and you have no sc yet gl and hf if you stuck on one WOW nice sounds nice <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ill write poetry
think about it im hungry o.O