Skulkbait, you are either the best troll or the worst critic ever.
Moreso, if you haven't heard of a game and don't plan to say anything worthwhile about it: why not just stay out? It's obvious you don't like many of the games we talk about so why just thread-###### all the time?
Is it not worthwhile to point out that a game is really, at its core, no different than the hundreds of other FPSs that get released every year? Maybe not, too obvious I guess.
Speaking of obvious: It isn't obvious that I don't like the games, since I've never played them I can't really have an opinion like that. I'm just disappointed, and a little insulted, as a gamer that all the industry thinks is worth producing is yet-another-fps. I think what I find more upsetting though is that so many of my fellow gamers are so eager to pay for it.
I'm sorry if you feel that all game threads should be filled with praise and joyousness, but last I checked I'm still entitled to voice my opinion here and defend it. <i>Who wants to play the Crysis demo?</i> the thread title asks, <i>Is there any particular reason I should want to play the Crysis demo?</i> I respond. The only answers I got were what I expected: <i>Its more of the same, but prettier!</i> And hey, if that works for you, then fine. Disappointing, but fine. It doesn't work for me.
Thanks for the heads up on how it runs Tycho. This week I'll be getting a new rig that'll be able to run this game. Spec'd similarly, but with a quad core and the 320mb version of the 8800gts. (Running at same resolution though!)
<!--quoteo(post=1658108:date=Oct 27 2007, 07:25 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Oct 27 2007, 07:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1658108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, see, those places where they <strike>hype</strike> talk about upcoming renditions of the same old fps gameplay we've been rehashing since Doom, I don't really pay attention to them. For obvious reasons. Thats why I haven't heard of Crysis. I wanted to know what was <i>different</i>, what made it so <i>special</i>. What, ultimately, separates it from Doom. And frankly, if the only answers I get are "Its prettier and with cooler weapons! And super-strength!", then that just isn't enough for me.
And yes, I am bitter. Because I have to watch great game companies like Looking Glass die in an industry full of people churning out Doom++.
Response-to-Liku-Edit: Never played HL2. Nothing I've seen or heard about it has lead me to believe that it's really any different than HL1, other than it has a gravity gun, and a gun that can pick up and throw random objects never really seemed all that different than a gun that throws bullets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> if games like Crysis are just a prettier Doom, then System Shock and Deus Ex were just Doom with an inventory and Looking Glass sucked and shouldn't have been churning out more crappy FPSes. I'm not going to be the one to try to sell this game to you - it sounds like you simply don't like the FPS genre, so you might as well stay away from this game.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1658108:date=Oct 27 2007, 05:25 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Oct 27 2007, 05:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1658108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Response-to-Liku-Edit: Never played HL2. Nothing I've seen or heard about it has lead me to believe that it's really any different than HL1, other than it has a gravity gun, and a gun that can pick up and throw random objects never really seemed all that different than a gun that throws bullets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you're not really into story or art?
<!--quoteo(post=1658108:date=Oct 27 2007, 06:25 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Oct 27 2007, 06:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1658108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, see, those places where they <strike>hype</strike> talk about upcoming renditions of the same old fps gameplay we've been rehashing since Doom, I don't really pay attention to them. For obvious reasons. Thats why I haven't heard of Crysis. I wanted to know what was <i>different</i>, what made it so <i>special</i>. What, ultimately, separates it from Doom. And frankly, if the only answers I get are "Its prettier and with cooler weapons! And super-strength!", then that just isn't enough for me.
And yes, I am bitter. Because I have to watch great game companies like Looking Glass die in an industry full of people churning out Doom++.
Response-to-Liku-Edit: Never played HL2. Nothing I've seen or heard about it has lead me to believe that it's really any different than HL1, other than it has a gravity gun, and a gun that can pick up and throw random objects never really seemed all that different than a gun that throws bullets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look, anything sounds dumb when you reduce it down to a sentence. HL2 is just HL1 plus a stupid gravity gun that doesn't make any difference at all? Fine, but then the Mona Lisa is just some painting of a lady, Star Wars is just some sci-fi movie about Jedi and rebels, James Bond is just a bunch of movies about a British Secret Agent who shoots people and meets pretty ladies, Crime and Punishment is just about some dude who kills a few people and can't get over it, 1984 is a book about normal life except with cameras everywhere, and Romeo and Juliet is just about two people who like each other but can't get it to work out.
How about you list some stuff that you liked? Then I can reduce it down to one sentence that makes it sound boring, like you did with HL2's gravity gun.
AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't like games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's harsh.
Altough I get the spirit of what you are saying, it really isn't justified. Because even though the new FPSes may not be revolutionary in every way, they entertain a great deal of people around the world. And is that wrong?
Cursed. The installer file I downloaded was corrupt. That seems to happen more and more often these days -_- .
But it hardly matters. The new version of Dwarf Fortress is released tomorrow or the day after. Content > graphics ^__^ . I have to agree with SkulkBait (on some levels). It seems that the games these days is all about kool graphix. Can't know yet if Crysis will be any different, but I hope so. Especially because I propably can't run it with even Medium-settings. I got about 25% past the minimum in the Can I Run It- test <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if games like Crysis are just a prettier Doom, then System Shock and Deus Ex were just Doom with an inventory and Looking Glass sucked and shouldn't have been churning out more crappy FPSes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> System Shock and Thief were innovative takes on the standard of "run around and shoot stuff with nifty guns!" gameplay of FPSs. Thats why they were good. By the time Bioshock got around to being made that kind of stuff was old hat.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you're not really into story or art?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I can get story and art watching Let's Plays on YouTube. I don't have to spend $50 to do that. Story is nice, but games are meant to be played, not watched. John Carmack once said something along the lines of "Plot in a game is like plot in a porno", and what I think he was getting at is that if the game (porn) isn't going to get me excited, then the story sure as hell isn't going to make up for it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look, anything sounds dumb when you reduce it down to a sentence. HL2 is just HL1 plus a stupid gravity gun that doesn't make any difference at all?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That wasn't what I said. What I said was that I didn't see any <i>significant</i> difference. Its still the same "run around and shoot aliens and zombies" gameplay that wasn't that much fun to me in the original half-life. And yes, you can make anything sound dumb with a sentence, that isn't what I'm trying to do here. I'm just trying to explain (because I was asked) why I was not interested in HL2. I could have spent several paragraphs explaining it, but what would that accomplish? Id just have to respond to several more paragraphs of people telling me why I should like it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Altough I get the spirit of what you are saying, it really isn't justified. Because even though the new FPSes may not be revolutionary in every way, they entertain a great deal of people around the world. And is that wrong?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not at all. Whatever floats your boat. All I'm saying is that I find it rather disappointing. And I'm disappointed in the people who hype each new installment like its the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh, and I'm sick of running the hardware treadmill to keep playing the same old crap, but thats neither here nor there.
It seems like you have some sort of obsession with NEW gameplay. It was good in Thief and System Shock because it hadn't been done before, but nowadays Bioshock isn't so hot since it's already been done once. It seems to me that all fantasy does not end at Lord of the Rings, all first person shooters do not end at Doom or Half-Life, all science fiction movies don't end at Star Trek and Star Wars, etc. Just because something has been done before doesn't mean it can't be done better. Or even if it's done worse, it's still fun. Bioshock might at its heart be System Shock 2 minues a bit of stuff and plus a bit of stuff, but does that mean it's less fun? No. I don't have some weird problem where I have to be playing something for the first time in my life for it to have any merit at all.
The gravity gun is not just a gun that fires stuff you pick up instead of bullets. It solves puzzles, it creates cover, it rearranges levels, it opens up new tactics, it returns enemy ordinance, it covers up antlion burrows, it breaks apart supply crates, it manipulates energy orbs to power Combine machinery... it's not just a gun. And even if it was just a gun, who cares? Just because Half-Life did guns already doesn't mean they suddenly won't be fun anymore in Half-Life 2. I assume you played Half-Life for more than an hour. Why bother? It just adds more guns after that first hour.
If I might interject... just play the goddamn demo. Instead of whining about how the game may or may not suck, why not actually play the demo and find out for yourself. What do you have to lose exactly? Is your time so valuable that you have to ration every second of it to the point that you can't possibly take a chance on a game <i>maybe</i> sucking?
<!--quoteo(post=1658248:date=Oct 28 2007, 04:43 PM:name=Nil_IQ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nil_IQ @ Oct 28 2007, 04:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1658248"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I might interject... just play the goddamn demo. Instead of whining about how the game may or may not suck, why not actually play the demo and find out for yourself. What do you have to lose exactly? Is your time so valuable that you have to ration every second of it to the point that you can't possibly take a chance on a game <i>maybe</i> sucking?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im pretty sure Skulkbait has a terrible computer, and is unable to run anything newer then HL1. Now that I think of it, maybe that is his basis for hating new games, since he is unable to play them then obviously they can't be any good...
Thats great that you still find that crap fun. I really don't. I can only take so much repetition of the same thing before I lose interest. For instance, I'm losing interest in saying that over and over again only to have someone respond "but <i>I</i> still think it's fun!" as though their enjoyment of it should have an affect on mine.
And BTW: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I assume you played Half-Life for more than an hour. Why bother? It just adds more guns after that first hour.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I did play for more than an hour, but I never finished it because it kept being the same thing over and over and I lost interest some time before reaching Xen. I only bought the game because it had such stellar reviews and I had some birthday giftcards to spend. I regretted buying it right up until TFC. You could say that half-life was the game that instilled in me a healthy cynicism for the game industry.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of whining about how the game may or may not suck, why not actually play the demo and find out for yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Given how unplayable it seems to be on a system way newer than mine, I am likely incapable of playing the demo. Thats why I asked if there was anything special about it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im pretty sure Skulkbait has a terrible computer, and is unable to run anything newer then HL1. Now that I think of it, maybe that is his basis for hating new games, since he is unable to play them then obviously they can't be any good...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What the hell is your problem? Seriously man. You hate me because I don't like certain games? Because I don't like the graphics upgrade treadmill? Grow the ###### up.
<!--quoteo(post=1658252:date=Oct 28 2007, 04:54 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Oct 28 2007, 04:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1658252"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What the hell is your problem? Seriously man. You hate me because I don't like certain games? Because I don't like the graphics upgrade treadmill? Grow the ###### up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im not the one who shows up in every software/technology thread and starts a ######storm by insulting things that the majority of people like. Seriously, why? You start whining about the "hardware upgrade treadmill" whenever conversation turns to new software. You did it in the vista thread, you did it here, you did it in the portal thread. If you are going to say something sucks without <i>ever evening trying it </i>(It's even better that you talk crap about games that 99% of the population here likes, what do you think that's going to accomplish?), stay the hell out of the thread. seriously.
I think the hostility is more because you're acting like we're dense for not understanding why you hate every game ever, except for the ones you like, and your criteria seems to fluctuate wildly between "it has to be innovative" and "it has to not be repetitive" although that doesn't explain why you like TFC, which is neither.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1658236:date=Oct 28 2007, 12:56 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Oct 28 2007, 12:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1658236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can get story and art watching Let's Plays on YouTube. I don't have to spend $50 to do that. Story is nice, but games are meant to be played, not watched. John Carmack once said something along the lines of "Plot in a game is like plot in a porno", and what I think he was getting at is that if the game (porn) isn't going to get me excited, then the story sure as hell isn't going to make up for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wouldn't take Carmack's word on ######, he just programs a lot of dull games. And plot in porn is wonderful.
You should check out Shadow of the Colossus if you want some innovative gameplay.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the hostility is more because you're acting like we're dense for not understanding why you hate every game ever<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe thats the problem, you all misinterpret and think that I hate these games. I never said that. I've only voiced that I'm disappointed in the lack of innovation and the way game developers adhere to tired old gameplay while seeking only to one-up each other in the eye-candy department. Maybe thats enough to set some people off, but if it is then I'd say those people have a screw loose. Maybe it has to do with me being (apparently) so much poorer than everyone else here. I can't afford to be upgrading my system all the time and throwing $50 at every hyped up FPS to emerge from the EA slave mines. If I'm going to purchase a game I have to make sure its going to be worth my while, so maybe I'm a little overly judgmental.
I'll admit, innovation and non-repetitiveness are not real good terms to describe what I'm talking about. I think Raph Koster did a really good job of describing the problem in A Theory of Fun for Game Design.
Multi-player games are entirely different from single-player. For instance, no one faults TFC for not having a story do they?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You should check out Shadow of the Colossus if you want some innovative gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its on my list of games to buy next time I get some money to spend on 'em, somewhere near Psychonauts.
P.S. Abra, Xyth: You're posting about a videogame on an internet forum, if you really think theres any more to be accomplished by me going away then theres that handy "ignore user" feature.
I wouldn't try Psychonauts if I were you. Sure, it has a unique art style, great writing and voice acting, and an innovative story, but if you wanted any of that you could just watch YouTube videos. The actual gameplay is just platforming, which is just Mario 64 all over again. And it's mostly the same all the way through. You'll probably get bored like you did with Half-Life.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2007
Gah, now I even have their applet telling me, I haven't got enough hdd space...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->FAIL: Sorry, your computer does not have enough Free Disk Space to meet this minimum requirement. Maybe it's time to buy another hard drive. Click 'We Recommend' to get all the disk space you need.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shaddap, I'm going to buy a hdd eventually gaddamnit! I happen to like my 36Gb Raptors, now GTFO my internet with your ever increasing filesize in games, 12GB WTF!!!
Oh how much installation space does one need for the demo, I got enough space on me server to put the installation file so no worries there. Just not on me workstation <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
My X850XT PE (gah can't get any longer then that) is above the minimum and the only bottleneck. I'm curious as to how it will actually perform...
I was messing around in the editor (didn't find the game all that fun) and found the real fun part: tornadoes! Here is a tornado that covers nearly the whole 2nd part of the demo after a few minutes. I jumped into it and flew up to find it had collected a few things. Everything in this screen is swirling around. Man my PC can't handle it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Although the gameplay had some interesting ideas (different modes on suits), i felt the AI was very subpar by todays' standards. Mixed feelings here, dunno, you can't say it's bad but it's just one of those games that are easy to dislike because they rely so much on graphics and marketing.
The AI seems smarter on the hardest difficulty, they seem to gang up and then search for you more often rather then going after you one by one as alerted. I am however puzzled about how they see in vegetation, the patrol boats and footmen can sometimes shoot straight into thick jungle with nitpick precision, other times the soldiers run around randomly in the nearby area and not even have a hint where you could be.
Oh btw, don't try to swim out to the low poly ships and I'm not talking about the warnings about sharks.
The only thing I don't understand about you Skulkbait is that you'd try to compare a video game to a porno. Plot in a video game is one of the prime driving forces for people to actually play the game - I know it's one for me. I could be offered the same gameplay time and time again, but if the plot is good, I'll buy it. I mean, that's really what most RPGs are.
As for the graphics treadmill, I think that your disappointment with it is coinciding with your uninterest in the plot of video games. Graphics, while pretty, only serve to immerse you more in a game world. So long as you're not looking for strict immersion and only raw gameplay with new ideas being thrown at you, then I can't see why you would be even close to impressed by something looking shinier.
I'm not ragging on you.
I realize we've got two different tastes.
I'm just saying. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
John Carmack is a genius, I'll give him that. And when I first heard his quote that stories in video games are like stories in pornos, I understood and agreed.
Problem is, I've matured since then. I've seen the difference a story makes when it is done well- and frankly, story alone is what takes games like Portal, Bioshock, Half-Life 1/2/Episodes, and hell, <i>every RPG other than Diablo 1/2 and Icewind Dale</i> worth playing.
What it comes down to is that a game is a supplementation of all the art forms. Story is by no means the most important factor to me(it hasn't for awhile now- though that may be because of the ridiculous amount of rubbish stories in games), but it is most definitely a contributing factor to the reason the medium's best are the best.
I was just using his quote to get a point across: A good story will not make a bad game good. At least not for me.
The story of Portal did not make it good, the innovative idea and exceptional execution did. The writing made it great. But had Portal been just another bad game where we run around and shoot the bad guys the writing would not have saved it. At least not for me. Case in point: When you did the challenges you were replaying about half of the game several times over solving for different problems, did you even bother to listen to GLaDOS during that time? <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Did you hesitate to chuck your faithful Companion Cube down the incinerator that second time?</span> I doubt it. And thats because story is icing, and while icing goes great on cake, it doesn't really help turds all that much.
Oh, and I gotta ask Haze: Ever been playing an RPG and enjoying the latest bit of story only to suddenly be thrown back into the game where you think to yourself "Christ, now I have to beat the next dungeon and walk across a land filled with random encounters to see what happens" and then realize that the game really isn't any fun? Thats basically why I gave up RPGs. Well, that, and I hate grind.
Comments
Moreso, if you haven't heard of a game and don't plan to say anything worthwhile about it: why not just stay out? It's obvious you don't like many of the games we talk about so why just thread-###### all the time?
Speaking of obvious: It isn't obvious that I don't like the games, since I've never played them I can't really have an opinion like that. I'm just disappointed, and a little insulted, as a gamer that all the industry thinks is worth producing is yet-another-fps. I think what I find more upsetting though is that so many of my fellow gamers are so eager to pay for it.
I'm sorry if you feel that all game threads should be filled with praise and joyousness, but last I checked I'm still entitled to voice my opinion here and defend it. <i>Who wants to play the Crysis demo?</i> the thread title asks, <i>Is there any particular reason I should want to play the Crysis demo?</i> I respond. The only answers I got were what I expected: <i>Its more of the same, but prettier!</i> And hey, if that works for you, then fine. Disappointing, but fine. It doesn't work for me.
Thanks for the heads up on how it runs Tycho. This week I'll be getting a new rig that'll be able to run this game. Spec'd similarly, but with a quad core and the 320mb version of the 8800gts. (Running at same resolution though!)
I wanted to know what was <i>different</i>, what made it so <i>special</i>. What, ultimately, separates it from Doom. And frankly, if the only answers I get are "Its prettier and with cooler weapons! And super-strength!", then that just isn't enough for me.
And yes, I am bitter. Because I have to watch great game companies like Looking Glass die in an industry full of people churning out Doom++.
Response-to-Liku-Edit: Never played HL2. Nothing I've seen or heard about it has lead me to believe that it's really any different than HL1, other than it has a gravity gun, and a gun that can pick up and throw random objects never really seemed all that different than a gun that throws bullets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if games like Crysis are just a prettier Doom, then System Shock and Deus Ex were just Doom with an inventory and Looking Glass sucked and shouldn't have been churning out more crappy FPSes. I'm not going to be the one to try to sell this game to you - it sounds like you simply don't like the FPS genre, so you might as well stay away from this game.
So you're not really into story or art?
I'll share my impressions after I've given it a go.
I wanted to know what was <i>different</i>, what made it so <i>special</i>. What, ultimately, separates it from Doom. And frankly, if the only answers I get are "Its prettier and with cooler weapons! And super-strength!", then that just isn't enough for me.
And yes, I am bitter. Because I have to watch great game companies like Looking Glass die in an industry full of people churning out Doom++.
Response-to-Liku-Edit: Never played HL2. Nothing I've seen or heard about it has lead me to believe that it's really any different than HL1, other than it has a gravity gun, and a gun that can pick up and throw random objects never really seemed all that different than a gun that throws bullets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look, anything sounds dumb when you reduce it down to a sentence. HL2 is just HL1 plus a stupid gravity gun that doesn't make any difference at all? Fine, but then the Mona Lisa is just some painting of a lady, Star Wars is just some sci-fi movie about Jedi and rebels, James Bond is just a bunch of movies about a British Secret Agent who shoots people and meets pretty ladies, Crime and Punishment is just about some dude who kills a few people and can't get over it, 1984 is a book about normal life except with cameras everywhere, and Romeo and Juliet is just about two people who like each other but can't get it to work out.
How about you list some stuff that you liked? Then I can reduce it down to one sentence that makes it sound boring, like you did with HL2's gravity gun.
That's harsh.
Altough I get the spirit of what you are saying, it really isn't justified. Because even though the new FPSes may not be revolutionary in every way, they entertain a great deal of people around the world.
And is that wrong?
But it hardly matters. The new version of Dwarf Fortress is released tomorrow or the day after. Content > graphics ^__^ . I have to agree with SkulkBait (on some levels). It seems that the games these days is all about kool graphix. Can't know yet if Crysis will be any different, but I hope so. Especially because I propably can't run it with even Medium-settings. I got about 25% past the minimum in the Can I Run It- test <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
System Shock and Thief were innovative takes on the standard of "run around and shoot stuff with nifty guns!" gameplay of FPSs. Thats why they were good. By the time Bioshock got around to being made that kind of stuff was old hat.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you're not really into story or art?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can get story and art watching Let's Plays on YouTube. I don't have to spend $50 to do that. Story is nice, but games are meant to be played, not watched. John Carmack once said something along the lines of "Plot in a game is like plot in a porno", and what I think he was getting at is that if the game (porn) isn't going to get me excited, then the story sure as hell isn't going to make up for it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look, anything sounds dumb when you reduce it down to a sentence. HL2 is just HL1 plus a stupid gravity gun that doesn't make any difference at all?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That wasn't what I said. What I said was that I didn't see any <i>significant</i> difference. Its still the same "run around and shoot aliens and zombies" gameplay that wasn't that much fun to me in the original half-life. And yes, you can make anything sound dumb with a sentence, that isn't what I'm trying to do here. I'm just trying to explain (because I was asked) why I was not interested in HL2. I could have spent several paragraphs explaining it, but what would that accomplish? Id just have to respond to several more paragraphs of people telling me why I should like it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Altough I get the spirit of what you are saying, it really isn't justified. Because even though the new FPSes may not be revolutionary in every way, they entertain a great deal of people around the world.
And is that wrong?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not at all. Whatever floats your boat. All I'm saying is that I find it rather disappointing. And I'm disappointed in the people who hype each new installment like its the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh, and I'm sick of running the hardware treadmill to keep playing the same old crap, but thats neither here nor there.
The gravity gun is not just a gun that fires stuff you pick up instead of bullets. It solves puzzles, it creates cover, it rearranges levels, it opens up new tactics, it returns enemy ordinance, it covers up antlion burrows, it breaks apart supply crates, it manipulates energy orbs to power Combine machinery... it's not just a gun. And even if it was just a gun, who cares? Just because Half-Life did guns already doesn't mean they suddenly won't be fun anymore in Half-Life 2. I assume you played Half-Life for more than an hour. Why bother? It just adds more guns after that first hour.
Im pretty sure Skulkbait has a terrible computer, and is unable to run anything newer then HL1. Now that I think of it, maybe that is his basis for hating new games, since he is unable to play them then obviously they can't be any good...
And BTW:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I assume you played Half-Life for more than an hour. Why bother? It just adds more guns after that first hour.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did play for more than an hour, but I never finished it because it kept being the same thing over and over and I lost interest some time before reaching Xen. I only bought the game because it had such stellar reviews and I had some birthday giftcards to spend. I regretted buying it right up until TFC. You could say that half-life was the game that instilled in me a healthy cynicism for the game industry.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of whining about how the game may or may not suck, why not actually play the demo and find out for yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Given how unplayable it seems to be on a system way newer than mine, I am likely incapable of playing the demo. Thats why I asked if there was anything special about it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im pretty sure Skulkbait has a terrible computer, and is unable to run anything newer then HL1. Now that I think of it, maybe that is his basis for hating new games, since he is unable to play them then obviously they can't be any good...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell is your problem? Seriously man. You hate me because I don't like certain games? Because I don't like the graphics upgrade treadmill? Grow the ###### up.
Im not the one who shows up in every software/technology thread and starts a ######storm by insulting things that the majority of people like. Seriously, why? You start whining about the "hardware upgrade treadmill" whenever conversation turns to new software. You did it in the vista thread, you did it here, you did it in the portal thread. If you are going to say something sucks without <i>ever evening trying it </i>(It's even better that you talk crap about games that 99% of the population here likes, what do you think that's going to accomplish?), stay the hell out of the thread. seriously.
I wouldn't take Carmack's word on ######, he just programs a lot of dull games. And plot in porn is wonderful.
You should check out Shadow of the Colossus if you want some innovative gameplay.
Nothing to accomplish here. Move on.
Maybe thats the problem, you all misinterpret and think that I hate these games. I never said that. I've only voiced that I'm disappointed in the lack of innovation and the way game developers adhere to tired old gameplay while seeking only to one-up each other in the eye-candy department. Maybe thats enough to set some people off, but if it is then I'd say those people have a screw loose. Maybe it has to do with me being (apparently) so much poorer than everyone else here. I can't afford to be upgrading my system all the time and throwing $50 at every hyped up FPS to emerge from the EA slave mines. If I'm going to purchase a game I have to make sure its going to be worth my while, so maybe I'm a little overly judgmental.
I'll admit, innovation and non-repetitiveness are not real good terms to describe what I'm talking about. I think Raph Koster did a really good job of describing the problem in A Theory of Fun for Game Design.
Multi-player games are entirely different from single-player. For instance, no one faults TFC for not having a story do they?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You should check out Shadow of the Colossus if you want some innovative gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its on my list of games to buy next time I get some money to spend on 'em, somewhere near Psychonauts.
P.S. Abra, Xyth: You're posting about a videogame on an internet forum, if you really think theres any more to be accomplished by me going away then theres that handy "ignore user" feature.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->FAIL: Sorry, your computer does not have enough Free Disk Space to meet this minimum requirement. Maybe it's time to buy another hard drive. Click 'We Recommend' to get all the disk space you need.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shaddap, I'm going to buy a hdd eventually gaddamnit! I happen to like my 36Gb Raptors, now GTFO my internet with your ever increasing filesize in games, 12GB WTF!!!
Oh how much installation space does one need for the demo, I got enough space on me server to put the installation file so no worries there. Just not on me workstation <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
My X850XT PE (gah can't get any longer then that) is above the minimum and the only bottleneck. I'm curious as to how it will actually perform...
Oh btw, don't try to swim out to the low poly ships and I'm not talking about the warnings about sharks.
<a href="http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bloodrivercf9.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7731/bloodrivercf9.th.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
As for the graphics treadmill, I think that your disappointment with it is coinciding with your uninterest in the plot of video games. Graphics, while pretty, only serve to immerse you more in a game world. So long as you're not looking for strict immersion and only raw gameplay with new ideas being thrown at you, then I can't see why you would be even close to impressed by something looking shinier.
I'm not ragging on you.
I realize we've got two different tastes.
I'm just saying. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Problem is, I've matured since then. I've seen the difference a story makes when it is done well- and frankly, story alone is what takes games like Portal, Bioshock, Half-Life 1/2/Episodes, and hell, <i>every RPG other than Diablo 1/2 and Icewind Dale</i> worth playing.
What it comes down to is that a game is a supplementation of all the art forms. Story is by no means the most important factor to me(it hasn't for awhile now- though that may be because of the ridiculous amount of rubbish stories in games), but it is most definitely a contributing factor to the reason the medium's best are the best.
The story of Portal did not make it good, the innovative idea and exceptional execution did. The writing made it great. But had Portal been just another bad game where we run around and shoot the bad guys the writing would not have saved it. At least not for me. Case in point: When you did the challenges you were replaying about half of the game several times over solving for different problems, did you even bother to listen to GLaDOS during that time? <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Did you hesitate to chuck your faithful Companion Cube down the incinerator that second time?</span> I doubt it. And thats because story is icing, and while icing goes great on cake, it doesn't really help turds all that much.
Oh, and I gotta ask Haze: Ever been playing an RPG and enjoying the latest bit of story only to suddenly be thrown back into the game where you think to yourself "Christ, now I have to beat the next dungeon and walk across a land filled with random encounters to see what happens" and then realize that the game really isn't any fun? Thats basically why I gave up RPGs. Well, that, and I hate grind.