new alien buildings
dudepuppet
Join Date: 2007-10-24 Member: 62727Members
Join Date: 2007-10-24 Member: 62727Members
Comments
Thought about spawn chambers (they already have SCs :S) and they might work but also thought of them being a bit more expencive chambers which would accelerate the general spawnin speed. Of course these chambers should be balances with their price and effectiveness and also be limited per hive or something.
1. Go around the corner
2. Shoot a bit
3. Hide from the spike by ducking back around corner
4. Lather, rinse, repeat
Perhaps a slow-firing, but very accurate and powerful advanced chamber? (only a few should be allowed in an area.)
The effect of detering static defence obiously doesnt flow both ways. If it did gorges lerks fades would never to barely fear marine static defences, but as it stands now they wont even touch them unless there are two fades a pair of gorges and 2-3 of some other life form.
or you can piggy back a ono's
sure if hte TF has a blind spot it has a weakness a life form can get in there take it out defences down. But that is a User Error issue, the coms a idiot for leaveing a blind spot,
yet courner camping 8 oc's by a single or pair of marines or haveing them ninja over the wall is just lame.
look the way i see it NS one has only one more version left in it, and thats to patch in all the windows VISTA bull###### issues.
they really need to acess the few last changes, that will help bridge the gap and story line between NS1 and NS2, and fix some of the underlineing bugs that have ether exsisted since the dawn of time, and they havent bothered to fix, and or do those final finishing touches to smooth that last bit of balance in pug's, i dont know how they intend to make people stop playing NS maps as if they are CO maps.
###### I played on three maps the other night, I walked around the other parts of the maps, NO ONE nothing, no HIVES no RES Caped.
both teams took the fastest path to the enamy.
If marines managed to get into hive its all over, if kharaa managed to push rines back to MS, they died and repeated the process, in one round on a map kharaa finaly managed to get enough marines in que, and com ether couldnt or didnt beacon. AA droped then the rest fell.
Apparently I was yelled at all map to cap res, then when I was capping res at the last 2 minutes of the match in the other 80% of the map, where no one went I realised, wow must be fun to ###### fade and own faces.
Then I realised of late kharaa skill isnt about team work, Its about waiting out long enough till others go gorge cap res so that you can juggle kills and res income to get fade's early and beat shoties, and that if everyones stubborn for to long an no one gorges like in 3-4 rounds played last night that if no one caps res, guess what you DIE.
<i>New Chamber
I don't think that the aliens should rely on chambers as their means of defense. Their inherit ability to move quickly across the map already (in my mind) makes the use of OCs questionable. Really, the OCs are either a deterant for lone marines or for early warning systems upon being attacked.
*Thumbs Down*"</i>
With that said, sure it is annoying that marines can pick off an OC form an angle and take no damage (and I wouldn't mind that being changed), but the aliens are fast enough that they should heed that as a warning and investigate.
If the aliens are equipped with an additional arsenal of chambers that will put more emphasis on gorges rather than the other life forms.
Not that this particular chamber suggestion does this, but some have suggested chambers perform a function that already exists as an alien ability. This would further nullify the need of certain alien classes, especially the lerk because of its support role design which could be replaced by chambers which are for support as well.
However, to end, this doesn't mean there isn't room for a new type of chamber.
mabey a couple of new towers like a spawn tower- alows aliens to spawn from it
or mabey an acid rocket tower- shoots acid rockets<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Despite the spelling and grammar mistakes, these are two very good ideas. Give the acid chamber a slow rate of fire so it would not be effective against single marines and we have a winner.
The spawn tower is similar to ideas suggested before but I don't think anyone has suggested it as an actual tower. Maybe it could be an added feature to the movement chamber, or a separate chamber.
<!--quoteo(post=1658403:date=Oct 29 2007, 05:08 PM:name=Moving_Target0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moving_Target0 @ Oct 29 2007, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1658403"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In my opinion, what we need is a chamber that people can't just kill by:
1. Go around the corner
2. Shoot a bit
3. Hide from the spike by ducking back around corner
4. Lather, rinse, repeat
Perhaps a slow-firing, but very accurate and powerful advanced chamber? (only a few should be allowed in an area.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In every game since the dawn of RTS's static defenses are not substitutes for real units/players. I don't think this can or should change. It all ready takes a decent amount of time/ammo to remove static defenses.
If you were being literal, 2-3 is already achieved with even a single OC against a well equipped squad of marines. Just by guess I would say it takes at least 1.5 seconds to kill the OC, but on top of that, many of the marines will be reloading. When reloading, some players retreat back a bit, some stay put, and some take the risk and push forward. Either way, it buys you more time if they push back, or produces potential kills if a reloader pushes forward.
The only real arguable question then: Was the 10 res worth the extra 3 seconds?
And if we consider the numbers again... 3 seconds gives the aliens not a lot, but some time to respond. Aliens can't bunker in anyway because of siege, so the OCs were designed (as I previously said, so sorry for my ranting) as slight deterants and early warning systems.
Also, not to mention how useful a single OC is when combined with a gorge or two and adrenaline (ex. Generator on NS_Nothing)
Yes. I am aware. But the main point is, the marines' defenses can keep aliens at bay for a very long time, if maintained and guarded by marines. However, even the finest-built alien defenses are easily torn down by med spamming, corner camping, and an abundance of grenades. It doesn't take as much time/ammo as you seem to think.
I'm not suggesting an uber tower that snipes marines and is lethal, but I do think aliens need another line of defense. After all, I think it would be more fun for marines if perhaps the alien defenses were formidable enough to have to plan how to take them down. As of now, it's: "Comm, spam meds on me. I'm going to shoot grenades and bullets until this entire wall of OCs is down." The sad part? The number of players doesn't matter.
with in 35 seconds it was all over from there. from one 3/3 marine with a hmg, and me healing my res nodes one by one and haveing them die after 4-5 heals.
yeah something needs to be changed, yes he had com support.
Don't drop OCs.
Don't drop OCs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, don't even make an attempt to defend your territory? Awesome idea! Let's also not build any upgrade chambers. They die too easily, too.
either that or give OC's a form of attack that works hand in hand with the dynamic infestation, like some kind of roots attack that comes through the infestation from the OC to the marine (think starcraft zerg turrets) that could possibly go through walls (so long as there is DI).
I'm not suggesting an uber tower that snipes marines and is lethal, but I do think aliens need another line of defense. After all, I think it would be more fun for marines if perhaps the alien defenses were formidable enough to have to plan how to take them down. As of now, it's: "Comm, spam meds on me. I'm going to shoot grenades and bullets until this entire wall of OCs is down." The sad part? The number of players doesn't matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're comparing apples to oranges. Undefended turrets are just as easy to take down as undefended ocs, instead of med packs you need a gorge. Also defended OC's are hard to take down without a real concerted push(just like turrets). Yes one guy with a gl can take out undefended OC's, but 1 gorge with bile could take out undefended turrets just as fast.
Maybe the solution is to have a spawn chamber as suggested in another thread so OCs wouldn't be left undefended for long.
Maybe the solution is to have a spawn chamber as suggested in another thread so OCs wouldn't be left undefended for long.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
spawn chamber was my idea look at the top
Maybe the solution is to have a spawn chamber as suggested in another thread so OCs wouldn't be left undefended for long.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Apples and oranges have differences.
Sure, you can take out marine turrets well with an onos or BB/Acid siege, but let's take a look at a few things:
1. Vanilla marines can defeat an OC with no trouble by corner camping in a relatively short amount of time. Gorges without bile bomb CAN kill a turret, but that takes a long time. Skulks can bite turrets, but the amount of time spent healing, running back, healing, running back, makes the damage almost negligible.
2. Late-game, with GLs and Heavy armor, OCs are easily destroyed even with gorges healing and back-up from aliens. It takes more than one marine perhaps, but they will go down.
3. Marine turrets, when in large numbers, can deal serious damage when defended. The HMG / GL / whatever fire + all the turret fire both defends the turrets and the base, and you don't have to stumble over your own structures to attack the thing destroying them.
OCs do have the advantage of being able to regenerate when near a DC and cloak near a SC, but...once discovered, a scanner sweep will uncover them until a GL arrives to take the defense down.
A lot of this also depends on player skill. But the fact is, I see people die and be delayed / deterred by marine defenses as opposed to OCs, which are far more easily brushed aside.
firstly i jsut want ot say gorges takeing out TF's and turrets is near impossable, to a exstent you need like a fade to draw most of the fire, while you heal the two of you and bile, this can be quite effective, but most turrets are spread pritty far, so basicly aim for the TF and hope yoru splash hits other things unless you can bile a single turret that opens up a blind spot.
sulks can not in any way do hit and runs get healed to take out turrets and TF's it ether find a blind spot leap to it and take out tf or die.
gorge with the latest patch reduceing hte bile bomb range has tottaly made it impossable to take out turrets and tf's. before you could sit alivated and aim 45 degres stand in plain sigt and bile, now if you dont have a courner, *note to take out about one turret at a time
bile bomb is usless unless you want ot run in bile run out wait for energy heal wait for energy run in bile, hum 50 seconds each hit an run 4 it and runs to drop two turrents and perhaps the TF, adrenaline pair of mcs hum mc build time + waste of res for 20 second round trip, come on guys this is bull ######.
a single marine with 3/3 and hmg can wipe out a oc from full health with a adrenalined mc camping gorge healing it in about 2/3 of a clip. i would imagine with a dc or a second gorge you could do it with a pair of grenades and the hmg clip, one at hte begining one at the end. and most like take a gorge out also.
the point is its bull ###### and laugh able at most, yet some how i still manage to get nearly as many kills with my oc's as the leading fade, and my scores usualy higher or on par. yet if some one wants to kill my oc's and not try and jump them or kill me, they usualy can with a couple of res and not much i alone can do about it since hte oc's in these cases dont help.
honoustly why was bile bomb's range nurfed. hive two weapons are equal to a lvl 2 gl. why does the enamy com have to skrew up for my bile bomb to be sucessful against his tf and turrets, when there is nothing, no way i can place my OC's / chambers to be successful against a vanila marine. THATS THE ISSUE
Yeah. But any marine with a welder can walk by and undo what you've done in a few seconds.
<!--quoteo(post=1658976:date=Nov 2 2007, 12:20 AM:name=NEX9)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NEX9 @ Nov 2 2007, 12:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1658976"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->sulks can not in any way do hit and runs get healed to take out turrets and TF's it ether find a blind spot leap to it and take out tf or die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't mean TFs, and they certainly can't do it if there's a large mass of turrets. If there's only one or two, they can bite once or twice before retreating to a gorge / hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1658976:date=Nov 2 2007, 12:20 AM:name=NEX9)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NEX9 @ Nov 2 2007, 12:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1658976"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->honoustly why was bile bomb's range nurfed. hive two weapons are equal to a lvl 2 gl. why does the enamy com have to skrew up for my bile bomb to be sucessful against his tf and turrets, when there is nothing, no way i can place my OC's / chambers to be successful against a vanila marine. THATS THE ISSUE<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can definitely agree with that.
Sure, you can take out marine turrets well with an onos or BB/Acid siege, but let's take a look at a few things:
1. Vanilla marines can defeat an OC with no trouble by corner camping in a relatively short amount of time. Gorges without bile bomb CAN kill a turret, but that takes a long time. Skulks can bite turrets, but the amount of time spent healing, running back, healing, running back, makes the damage almost negligible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here's why i said you were comparing apples to oranges. If the marines have only dropped one turret, a skulk can definitely take it out in 2 maybe three trips. This is assuming the one turret fully covers the tf and the skulk can't chomp it down. I'd wager the time spent by or marine and skulk are relatively the same. Also in this scenario marines have spent more 10 res for the OC as compared to 20 res for the turret and tf.
<!--quoteo(post=1658954:date=Nov 1 2007, 05:59 PM:name=Moving_Target0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moving_Target0 @ Nov 1 2007, 05:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1658954"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. Late-game, with GLs and Heavy armor, OCs are easily destroyed even with gorges healing and back-up from aliens. It takes more than one marine perhaps, but they will go down.
3. Marine turrets, when in large numbers, can deal serious damage when defended. The HMG / GL / whatever fire + all the turret fire both defends the turrets and the base, and you don't have to stumble over your own structures to attack the thing destroying them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the late game aliens should also have fade and onos. I'd say it completely comes down to player skill. A stomping onos with fade/lerk support can defend nearly anything rather well. Fade or lerk get the jps while the onos takes the heavy. If you don't have the resources to mount a defense that's because you're all ready behind.
As far as OCs go, in my opinion they are very very underpowered. If you compare the power of a turret against a skulk (Yes, skulks, not Sulks), skulks have a very limited chance against these. Considering they can fire in all directions skulks are limited in their ability to combat these structures unless they have a gorge to heal them. But that kind of teamwork is hard to come by, and usually there are marines, or a phase gate near by that would end any attempt at a succesful attack by the kharaa. An OC however, isn't at all that intimidating. NS is full of tight and short corridors, and when a marine comes up to an OC they do either one of a few things. They either run past it ( Comm can even supply medpacks ), destroy it ( Since OCs have such a slow rate of fire, you can easily strafe back and forth behind a wall or box and take it out without much damage to yourself), or go another way (This being the most beneficial on the part of the aliens). Thats not to say some marines will get themselves killed on a rare occasion. Based on these assumptions it would be clear that the marines have the most effective defensive capabilities, although the aliens are supposed to be more defensive throughout the game, especially at the low tech skulk vs vannilarine. However, OCs are also very effective in other situations. A quick JP rush can be ruined by well placed OCs, although the safest spot is usually on top of the hive, and still requires the aliens to finish the job. They can also provide great warnings to the aliens when attacked if placed just outside a hive in a siege location.
So what would should be added? Well, to get those marines to stop running past the OCs, why not have the OCs themselves slow down the marines when struck. This would make the OC more valuable to the aliens, as they would be deadlier, and would also help the aliens in combat by making marines easier to chase down.
As for new chambers, I'm sort of biased on this. Personally I think Defense, Movement, and Sensory just about do the job, anything else would either be redundant or plain.
However, for the weakness the kharaa have they should defenetly have been able to create new types of structures to help them. I've probobly suggested this idea about 4 times in the past few months, but I really like it so here it is again. Babbler type mines. A gorge creates an egg that contains a babbler. Now, this egg will NOT hatch until a marine comes within range and Line of Sight. These eggs could serve a multitude of purposes. For starters, place a few of these in your hive and now you have a little spawn protection for those ninja marines thinking they can get in and get a few extra kills. They could also be used as a sort of disguise for players to gestate behind. Putting one of these on the ceiling or around a corner could be used to scare/ or even provide a distraction for the marines (Marines turn corner, and just as they turn a babbler bomb bursts open and draws their fire, while a skulk can pop out of a vent from behind and proceed with the chomping).
Finally, another improvement that could be made on existing chambers is the ability to build them on walls and ceilings. Personally, the biggest reason I would love to see this in NS is purely aesthetic. It defenetly widens that difference between how marines and aliens play. Marines are subject to gravity as they use mechanicaly objects, and aliens are able to use their biological structures that can make sturdy connections to the ceilings and walls. Although the biggest problem I see in this is, what if you have a high ceiling spammed with OCS? Well it would be hard to use a grenade launcher without getting into harms way, but theres always the flame thrower <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />.
With the addition of DI there could be "passive" abilitys that are effect a small radius around the chambers while on DI.
example
The MC could slow the movment of rines in it's radius (make DI sticky to rines).
The SC could sense anything that toughes the DI and alerts friendlys like Sense of Fear (even around corners).
The OC could fire a spine out of any DI surface in its radius (fires slower then the OC itself)
The DC could increase armor of all lifeforms in its radius (or even raise the DI at a point to create a "shield" to defend against bullets and nades)