Turrets is not run out of ammo ?

HatlabuFarkas

<div class="IPBDescription">Small sentries, and offensive chambers ?</div>i have read the "dudepuppet" started <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103053" target="_blank">NS FORUM</a> , and i have a idea about the turrets.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/siege.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::siege::" border="0" alt="siege.gif" /> is a slow-firing-big-damage turret, but how many ammo have ?
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/turret.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::sentry::" border="0" alt="turret.gif" /> is a Quick-firing-small-damage turret, but how many ammo have ?
and what is happen, if the ammo is running out ?

Offensive chamber have a relaitive small spikes. if the chamber fires one spike, the spike is still shown on the offensine chamber. never runs out. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />

how we can reload, if the small turrets out ?

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

add more realistics . good, or BAD idea ?

Kouji_San

Heh, well I'm going to pull an age old rabbit out of the hat right now: Nanites!

For the Siege cannon, it is basically an energy weapon which shoots energy waves into an area. These then explode and damage the bacteria. So these would get their energy from the nanogrid.

The turrets probably get their ammo trough means of phasing in a new ammo belt into the turret, so it can never run out of ammo. It is also locked into the nano grid. You could ofcourse argue about the fact that handheld weapons don't have this feature, but this is probably because they are moving and also able to go into infested areas while moving. The turrets are static buildings and the nanogrid can lock onto them more easily (also in infested areas, I guess). The marine movement could interfear heavily with the phasing of ammo into the weapons. I guess the marines like to carry their own clips instead of depending on an automated system. Same reason why the commander can phase in ammopacks for them to use.

Now onto the offensive chambers, you do realise that the bacteria can grow extremly fast, evolving from skulk to onos for example, this is probably the reason the offensive chamber never runs out of spikes. After it shoots one there is already a new spike behind it, kind of like shark teeth growing at lightspeed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

That is my take on how to explain them in the NS universe...

Moving_Target0

Perhaps it should cost a small amount of res to restock turret ammo...? As for aliens, it could require a gorge to spend a bit of res to re-supply the OC with material to reproduce spikes...

corpsman

Or maybe the turrets are more powerful, easing the server load ALOT, and of course making them more deadly, but the draw would be every time they have to reload X amount, it costs the marine team X amount of res. i.e. each reload carries 200 rounds, but each reload also costs the marines .5 res! So while the aliens are having a harder time defeating the turrets, it is costing the marines res to place them. This WOULD help with turret farming, and of course server load. Also with less turret being placable [radius is double], but the damage is 2X as bad], they also cannot be used to block anymore.

It's such a cheap trick, especially on siege maps. The aliens can't even get through or run past them because they place the turrets ON the door edge... *sigh*

dudepuppet

or spend like 50 res on each sifde to get an auto resuply that way you dont have to keep waising res

Svenpa

Your not seriously suggesting the commander should babysit his turrets as well as the marines? Comm already has enough to do as it is. As for siege maps, they are not official and should adapt on their own, not the other way around. You say they can't get through the door when turrets are placed at the edge, now I haven't played for a long time but fades still blink right? My biggest concern was to get through as fast a possible without turrets firing to many shots at ya, doubling the damage would just break it more, even further if you add 2x the range. Why spend money on jetpacks when turrets tear them down?

2aimless

<!--quoteo(post=1660088:date=Nov 10 2007, 12:26 AM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Nov 10 2007, 12:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660088"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your not seriously suggesting the commander should babysit his turrets as well as the marines? Comm already has enough to do as it is. As for siege maps, they are not official and should adapt on their own, not the other way around. You say they can't get through the door when turrets are placed at the edge, now I haven't played for a long time but fades still blink right? My biggest concern was to get through as fast a possible without turrets firing to many shots at ya, doubling the damage would just break it more, even further if you add 2x the range. Why spend money on jetpacks when turrets tear them down?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

i think too that they are abalanced now.

Maybe all turrets should get a conenction to the tf that supplies every turret with ammonution?! so like in cnc3 the defensiv towers of nod who got a string to the main station. So every turret factory is a station that can produce a special amount of amonution per second/minute...

this could also explain the cap of turrets in a range!

Misere

Leave as is, making turrents more powerful but fewer would ease the server loads but would also make blind spots harder to cover, thus tf less useful than they already are. Currently a onos charging in or a gorge biling from afar screws these over.

Domining

Static defense threads are redundant. NS2 isn't going to be based around static defenses (common sense) so I doubt that turrets/ocs will be playing any role other than lagging up servers.

Kouji_San

NS without static defenses, dunno but that is starting to sound like Counterstrike with aliens and marines (or combat <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) It would kill the RTS element completely from the game and it already has taken a backseat, heck the RTS part is actually in the trunk currently...

Domining

<!--quoteo(post=1660462:date=Nov 13 2007, 12:52 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Nov 13 2007, 12:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660462"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS without static defenses, dunno but that is starting to sound like Counterstrike with aliens and marines (or combat <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) It would kill the RTS element completely from the game and it already has taken a backseat, heck the RTS part is actually in the trunk currently...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, no. How many static defenses do you see used in StarCraft by Koreans? And I'm pretty sure that its NOT a Counter Strike set in space.

Kouji_San

Starcraft is nothing like NS, since Ns is a FPS/RTS hybrid. You don't have swarms of mindless creatures (players) who the commander has full control over. Marines don't rush towards the enemy to overrun them like the zerging that goes on in SC (well sometimes they do with jetty/shotty rush). However most of the time they use tactical movement, static defenses are just part of NS to be able lockdown or defend an area where the limited amount of players on a server aren't able to be, because they are needed somewhere else (building stuff in base, attacking a hive/RT).

Domining

<!--quoteo(post=1660573:date=Nov 14 2007, 03:48 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Nov 14 2007, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Starcraft is nothing like NS, since Ns is a FPS/RTS hybrid. You don't have swarms of mindless creatures (players) who the commander has full control over. Marines don't rush towards the enemy to overrun them like the zerging that goes on in SC (well sometimes they do with jetty/shotty rush). However most of the time they use tactical movement, static defenses are just part of NS to be able lockdown or defend an area where the limited amount of players on a server aren't able to be, because they are needed somewhere else (building stuff in base, attacking a hive/RT).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but 'locking down' is not really an effective strategy. As soon as you stop pressuring and go on defense - you're on the losing side. (barring 30 man servers from here because marines hold vast superiority in time) And locking down hives on a 30 man server isn't a good idea anyway, if you've pressured the aliens THAT far back, its always better to have a gate with mines on it in the most likely hive location and just siege out/shotgun walk-in the main alien hive.

StarCraft units aren't mindless, they are fluid resources much like NS marine players. The only difference is that StarCraft units do exactly what you tell them to do and have 0 margin for human stupidity. And your concept of how a StarCraft game is played is extremely flawed, sure all melee units in that game are basically suicide machines, but ranged units such as tanks, goons and hydras are very similar to NS marines. Now that I've mentioned it, siege tanks ARE basically NS marines.

enigma

<!--quoteo(post=1660573:date=Nov 14 2007, 03:48 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Nov 14 2007, 03:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Starcraft is nothing like NS, since Ns is a FPS/RTS hybrid. You don't have swarms of mindless creatures (players) who the commander has full control over. Marines don't rush towards the enemy to overrun them like the zerging that goes on in SC (well sometimes they do with jetty/shotty rush). However most of the time they use tactical movement, static defenses are just part of NS to be able lockdown or defend an area where the limited amount of players on a server aren't able to be, because they are needed somewhere else (building stuff in base, attacking a hive/RT).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Static defenses are used only sparingly by good players in RTS games because the resources required to build them can be better spent elsewhere. The 100 res spent on locking down a hive in NS can be used to equip most of the marine team with a shotgun or get 2/2 tech.

invader Zim

Locking down a hive wit turrets in my experience is only nessesary if you are comming a team that doesn't respond to attacks, which is common on may pubs. A team which responds quickly on the defense and is aggressive on the offense doesn't really need turrets ( except maybe occasionally while sieging ).

Maybe they should make turrets mobile in ns2. they could look similar to the remote sentry bots from Doom 3. They could be incredibly ineffective and vulnerable if they were not deployed and on the move. But when they reach their way point they could drill em selves down and operate like the current turrets.

This would mean they would be less static and they could support marine offensives more easily, but they wouldn't be good enough to assault by them selves. The fact they can redeploy would also allow for adjustments to bad placement by the comm. And would allow them to adapt to different strategys. I heard in one of the podcasts they were talking about mobile sieges why not normal turrets too. However this kind of change would make turret factories defunct.

HatlabuFarkas

<!--quoteo(post=1660077:date=Nov 9 2007, 05:21 PM:name=dudepuppet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dudepuppet @ Nov 9 2007, 05:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660077"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->spend like 50 res on each sifde to get an auto resuply that way you dont have to keep waising res<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

i think, this is a good idea <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

Testosteron

I didn't ready everything but my here are my ideas:
OCs are supported by the infestation, so on a certain volume of DI (volume = area * thickness, with thickness being equivalent to time).

Turrets are supported be Turret Factories and the area limit around the TF limits the number of turrets per TF as well.

So with both structures being somehow limited, there is no need to introduce further limitations.

HatlabuFarkas

<!--quoteo(post=1660979:date=Nov 18 2007, 05:32 AM:name=Testosteron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Testosteron @ Nov 18 2007, 05:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Turrets are supported be Turret Factories and the area limit around the TF limits the number of turrets per TF as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Good idea, the turretfactory have the ammo of the turrets ?? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> if the BIG AMMO PACK has depleted, ALL the turrets is OFF ? (and commander must pay for more bullets?)

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/turret.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::sentry::" border="0" alt="turret.gif" />

(turrets are able to carry to another place like HL2 ?)

Misere

Locking down hives is a vaild option. The number if games I have lost as marine or won as alien because the alien side rushed the phase gate in a unlocked down hive is very large. Basicly it allows you to concentrate on the aliens hive without having to worry about loosing the ground you have already taken. Sure you can give every marine SG but once these marines are killed, which is likely on pubs, you have lost that res forever. Alternatively the locked down hive will last the rest of the game providing you weld/repell the aliens. This is espcially true on 3v3 games.

Leave static defense as an option ~ it does not hurt to have it
Leave turrents as are ~ Com micro manages far too much as it is