New Nades, throwing mechanisms
Misere
Join Date: 2004-03-28 Member: 27568Members
Join Date: 2004-03-28 Member: 27568Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Make some strat varations.</div>Most players have mixed feelings on nades, personally I love them and if you don't you can always throw yours against the wall before you leave spawn but some add on's to the nade tech tree would be great and may get a few more people using them.
New Nade Tree:
Frag Nade: Our current nade, first upgrade required.
Then
Scan Nade: Does no damage but produces a scan, allowing the location of cloaked structures/aliens to be seen. Lessens the problem with new coms not scanning enough.
Pyro Nade: Does a little more damage to structures, less to life forms, larger radius (thus clears webbing faster), maybe kills off dynamic infestation?
Flash Nade: Blinds for 2-3 seconds (foe and friendly alike so be careful), plus 10secs of a brighter screen to nail those that (in my option) cheat via turning the brightness of their screens way up to see better on dark maps. Although this second part may not even be possible.
Shock Nade: Stuns (for 1 sec) larger lifeforms (Fade/onos/HA) knocks smaller lifeforms to the side (Skulk/Gorge/lerk/JP/A3 marine). As it effects both sides its use would have to be self balancing (i.e. you can all walk in to a bunch of aliens and throw nades one after another as you will get the same effects).
Reload: Marines can now reload nades at the advance armoury, one per 5 secs. Makes it cost you time to reload while making a throw of a nade that is not
Assuming any of these other nades where added in each marine could only carry one type; seleced via the pop up menu. This would allow you to adjust your selection depending on the current situation while not being able to have a nade on hand for every situation. SC early, Scan Nades then, Webs/OC spam Pyro time! GL should only be able to do Frag and maybe Pyro Nades (sec fire, limited ammo?)
THROWING
Currently you hold fire and release when you want to throw it. Great for going via a phase but altering distances/timing is a little harder. To get nades to really work like the real thing new combos are needed to emulate throwing a nade.
Method 1: Primary fire only; works just like the current system for quick throw into a vent etc.
Method 2: Secondary fire only; counts down from 5secs to a min of 1 sec and throws like the current system. This allows you to alter distance till boom but not the strength of the throw.
Method 3: Secondary then Primary; activates nade and then timing is set once primary is hit. Rectangle appears with a moving bar inside it to show how hard you will throw (which happens on primary release). So you can do more precise throws when not under alien pressure.
Method 4: Secondary + Primary at same time; rolls the nade along the ground on level or downward slopping surfaces. Great for dropping one off the edge of a ledge, through a grate/slit or a downward closing door.
New Nade Tree:
Frag Nade: Our current nade, first upgrade required.
Then
Scan Nade: Does no damage but produces a scan, allowing the location of cloaked structures/aliens to be seen. Lessens the problem with new coms not scanning enough.
Pyro Nade: Does a little more damage to structures, less to life forms, larger radius (thus clears webbing faster), maybe kills off dynamic infestation?
Flash Nade: Blinds for 2-3 seconds (foe and friendly alike so be careful), plus 10secs of a brighter screen to nail those that (in my option) cheat via turning the brightness of their screens way up to see better on dark maps. Although this second part may not even be possible.
Shock Nade: Stuns (for 1 sec) larger lifeforms (Fade/onos/HA) knocks smaller lifeforms to the side (Skulk/Gorge/lerk/JP/A3 marine). As it effects both sides its use would have to be self balancing (i.e. you can all walk in to a bunch of aliens and throw nades one after another as you will get the same effects).
Reload: Marines can now reload nades at the advance armoury, one per 5 secs. Makes it cost you time to reload while making a throw of a nade that is not
Assuming any of these other nades where added in each marine could only carry one type; seleced via the pop up menu. This would allow you to adjust your selection depending on the current situation while not being able to have a nade on hand for every situation. SC early, Scan Nades then, Webs/OC spam Pyro time! GL should only be able to do Frag and maybe Pyro Nades (sec fire, limited ammo?)
THROWING
Currently you hold fire and release when you want to throw it. Great for going via a phase but altering distances/timing is a little harder. To get nades to really work like the real thing new combos are needed to emulate throwing a nade.
Method 1: Primary fire only; works just like the current system for quick throw into a vent etc.
Method 2: Secondary fire only; counts down from 5secs to a min of 1 sec and throws like the current system. This allows you to alter distance till boom but not the strength of the throw.
Method 3: Secondary then Primary; activates nade and then timing is set once primary is hit. Rectangle appears with a moving bar inside it to show how hard you will throw (which happens on primary release). So you can do more precise throws when not under alien pressure.
Method 4: Secondary + Primary at same time; rolls the nade along the ground on level or downward slopping surfaces. Great for dropping one off the edge of a ledge, through a grate/slit or a downward closing door.
Comments
i thought the scan nade was quite inventive, but may need to be discussed in more detail to iron out any balancing issues.
i also liked the idea of using alt-fire to roll the nade along the ground, i wanna stack some skulks/gorgies at one end of a corridor and play some 10-pin bowling! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
a few nade types is a good idea, perhaps the comm has to make a choice as to which the entire team uses.
reloading nades from an armoury would be make them a lot more viable too, imo. if you came up against a wall of lame or similar you could drop a quick field armoury to take it out.
Edit: brevity
Not saying once impelmented it would not be dropped later or altered due to balance.
Alternate: you only get one specail nade vs 2-3 frag nades.
And stun nades, i like the idea of knocking players aorund but not stunnung larger life forms. maybe u get cud get some gas grenades that harm aliens?
this might be better than scan greade because the aliens can still avoid the glowing stuff but if they walk through it their feet will glow.
and i think the stun grenade is too overpowered because marines could throw 1 grenade each second keeping the alien stuned for ages while the others kill it.
Yea, and that's basically everything that's wrong with this idea.
I agree. Stun should be a unique ability to Onos (Stomp).
Imo, those different grenades (Incendiary at least!) should implemented simply through one technology. Commander can develop it from the armory after Grenades. It could be called Smart Grenades: activates the computer chip in every grenade. It'd allow you to choose the type of the grenade you're holding: frag, incendiary, scan or what ever... This way there'd only be 2 grenades of any type at your disposal. Grenade restocking should also definately be considered.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Misere)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Misere)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->StickyNade: When thrown it sticks to what ever surface it hits (like Halo, sorry to compare), would be useful for tagging that onos running around the coner to get healed by the gorge or if aliens can start building on walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds much like the mine.
anyways, cool ideas^^ New nades are definatly needed =)
additional nade idea:
Sonic grenade, less damage, no 2x vs buildings, ignores walls, possibly a larger blast radius underwater?
K. well stun is definaly given the thumbs down. As for the sticky nade, its not really like a mine as its used while in combat directly and can be attached to lifeforms/walls, goes off after a count down a not on impact while mines are set only on walls and go off on contact. Really used times when you want to get that gorge that is healling the Onos around the corner.
<!--quoteo(post=1661514:date=Nov 22 2007, 12:47 PM:name=Frosty)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frosty @ Nov 22 2007, 12:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661514"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->additional nade idea:
Sonic grenade, less damage, no 2x vs buildings, ignores walls, possibly a larger blast radius underwater?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like, more for that OC spam.
As for the smart nade idea, it has merit but how would you quickly select and set the type?
Sounds cool and I especially like the "larger blast radius underwater" -part for it'd give individual marines new tactics on watery maps (if NS2 has 'em). But think about 8 marines or more and each throwing a sonic nade to same location... Could become a pain in the ass for weaker lifeforms especially if grenades could be restocked. Imo they should be kinda like portable sieges and therefore do around 25-45 damage but 3x or 4x vs buildings.
<!--quoteo(post=1661793:date=Nov 26 2007, 01:17 AM:name=Misere)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Misere @ Nov 26 2007, 01:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->K. well stun is definaly given the thumbs down. As for the sticky nade, its not really like a mine as its used while in combat directly and can be attached to lifeforms/walls, goes off after a count down a not on impact while mines are set only on walls and go off on contact. Really used times when you want to get that gorge that is healling the Onos around the corner.
Like, more for that OC spam.
As for the smart nade idea, it has merit but how would you quickly select and set the type?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
D'oh! I misunderstood the sticky nade idea, for I thought it'd only stick on map surfaces. It'd be pretty cool but only playtesting would reveal it's true potential.
I agree that smart nades idea has the problem that <i>Misere</i> stated. It has to be solved before it can be implemented. I don't have a bulletproof solution but couple of suggestions: <ol type='1'><li>A selection menu in the pop-up menu but I bet it'd be too clumsy. </li><li>A menu identical to the equipment menu currently in use (button 4 or 5) where each click of the key changes the selection and fire key selects it (unless you use mp_fastswitch "1"). </li><li>Hotkey for every grenade type but that of course requires new key bindings and therefore complicates the making of good key bindings.</li></ol>