<!--quoteo(post=1662803:date=Dec 3 2007, 10:54 PM:name=NEX9)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NEX9 @ Dec 3 2007, 10:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->will flame thrower wearers get a different suit or will they be just as hurt but fire as other units. if they dont get quite as hurt by fire as other units perhaps kharaa will get a unit a little mroe retardant to fire, possably the lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope so. Perhaps a new type of suit for the marines, like a specialized enviromental suit meant for space vacuum, underwater, hazardous materials, lava/fire...
On the Kharaa side, maybe a new type of chamber, for combating area affects: fire, grenades, etc?
<!--quoteo(post=1662803:date=Dec 4 2007, 03:54 AM:name=NEX9)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NEX9 @ Dec 4 2007, 03:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yeah i dont quite reember the thread but that seams to stick buzzou, spore offencive umbra defensive.
will flame thrower wearers get a different suit or will they be just as hurt but fire as other units. if they dont get quite as hurt by fire as other units perhaps kharaa will get a unit a little mroe retardant to fire, possably the lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i guess that depends on how they make the weapon. if its a smallish rifle thingy with a small cylinder built into the gun, then any marine could wield it (vanilla, HA, JP). if it is like your current military flamethrower where they have a big cylinder on their backs, then HA probably couldnt use it, and definately not jetpackers. if thats the case, then i guess they could make the cylinder/backpack thingy come with a shiny flame resistant suit. but that also means if a flamethrower guy dies near you, the suit is lost, and therefore the gun....
personally i'd prefer the first option, where any unit/suit type could carry the gun (despite how cool a backpack fuel tank would look - imagine a skulk chomping it.... KABOOM!). maybe just make the Heavy Armor fire resistant in addition to lerk gas?
y, its cool , but NS (and especially 2) plays in the future, so why not make some kind of plasma-thrower or something else similar to flamethrowers? - but diffrent!
that would fit much better than the standard flamethrower imo
There would almost be room for both i would think the weapons, the weapon for anyone to use, a vanilla marine might take radius heat damage aprotching and more while passing through as well as catch on fire while going out hte other side, a HA might take damage after a time period if he dances in fire long enough completely engulfed but if he leave fire the still might take more damage like steel heating up and not cooling rapidly, another use for water or a alternate freeze gas method. and poor jp's might have a real issue flying into a xeno skulk leaping into him setting him on fire as a spore burst erupts.
Wow would that look pretty it would be like fire works, as the Jp fuel burns a hot blue color, spores could burn a green color, xeno a crazy shrapnel effect of skulk fleash flying everywhere with trails, and the flame throw could erupt into a messy fire ball that does a push effect and splinters the air.
Primed xeno's other jp's or flamers in the area other Gl nades hiting the walls of fire acid rockets bile bombs and or spore clouds aimed to reach there destinaiton could also erupt on contact of each others exsplosion and just set of huge chain reactions - golden eye and perfect dark had this in their engine. The devistation would be immence and most likely out balanced, imagine a mined hive area and a self sacroficeing flamer in a lerks nest. Though at which point the exsplosions getting closer to the hive would switch lerks to umbra and protect that ceribate.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS (and especially 2) plays in the future, so why not make some kind of plasma-thrower or something else similar to flamethrowers? - but diffrent!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I totally agree Why would the TSA use technology that is outdated even now? Why not use super-heated plasma or 18M sulfuricc acid or gel-explosives or supercooled superfluid helium(to freeze) or (getting bigger) liquid c4, liquid uranium to produce a small fission reaction, hydrogen and helium to make fusion or the ultimate: antimatter gun for massive explosions.
I can anticipate one crit which is that some of these things produce massive explosions that could wipe out a ship up to planets. To answer: 1. It depends on the map or other. 2. They can make a small scale version of the nukes or fusion etc with the TSAs advanced nanotechnology.
(nanites save the day)
To Align: a plamsa thrower would be cheap, low-tech and outdated in the future setting of ns as would most of these technologies
Nowhere near as cheap and low-tech as bullets and propane flamethrowers (assuming NS follows the standard FPS run). Also you completely ignored the part about NS' gritty atmosphere...
<!--quoteo(post=1662831:date=Dec 4 2007, 02:01 AM:name=c0ke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(c0ke @ Dec 4 2007, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662831"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->btw, why does it has to be a flamethrower?
y, its cool , but NS (and especially 2) plays in the future, so why not make some kind of plasma-thrower or something else similar to flamethrowers? - but diffrent!
that would fit much better than the standard flamethrower imo<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fire is plasma. Its just a mater of concentration. I used to be able to tell you the ratio of hyper-ionized atoms (plasma) in your average flame but its been a while. Also flamethrowers arn't outdated, they arnt used militarily anymore(geneva convicion I believe), but that hardly makes them outdated. Even when they were used militarily it was primarily a psychological/terrain clearing weapon, or to get at non standard targets (example would be a bunker).
That said there is no reason the TSA flamethrower could simply be a gas intake to a laser chamber (to heat the gas to a partial-plasma, aka fire). Hell that would even explain the relatively short range of a games flamethrower (as real flamethrowers can go nearly a football field).
Flamethrowers may be too effective, or useless ...depends on the Friendly Fire setting, FF on = no flamers or toasted buddies, FF off will result in a overpowered anti skulk weapon, heck anti any melee class.
Its all well and good to add all nifty weapons, but some players will need to play the aliens too... or did I miss the announcement concerning the removal of the Kharaa from NS:S ?
Try imagine being the Skulk trying to approach a marine squad with a flamer unit busy clearing halls and corners before entering... which will be the forst thing I do if I was given a volumetric flamethrower, burn the usual suspect skulk skulking areas.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1663854:date=Dec 13 2007, 03:58 PM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ASnogarD @ Dec 13 2007, 03:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Flamethrowers may be too effective, or useless ...depends on the Friendly Fire setting, FF on = no flamers or toasted buddies, FF off will result in a overpowered anti skulk weapon, heck anti any melee class.
Its all well and good to add all nifty weapons, but some players will need to play the aliens too... or did I miss the announcement concerning the removal of the Kharaa from NS:S ?
Try imagine being the Skulk trying to approach a marine squad with a flamer unit busy clearing halls and corners before entering... which will be the first thing I do if I was given a volumetric flamethrower, burn the usual suspect skulk skulking areas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You could make the same argument about the GL now. The flamethrower will probably be tied to DI and be less player removal than DI removal. I'd imagine it to be deadly in a small vent maybe but in any kind of hallway the volumetric design would be limited.
<!--quoteo(post=1663861:date=Dec 13 2007, 04:19 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Dec 13 2007, 04:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663861"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You could make the same argument about the GL now. The flamethrower will probably be tied to DI and be less player removal than DI removal. I'd imagine it to be deadly in a small vent maybe but in any kind of hallway the volumetric design would be limited.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Generally speaking the GL was an indirect weapon, used to spam and area deny ... most effective against the ground based Kharaa but a Skulk or a Lerk was able to remain above the weapons most effective area, so it was balanced. The proposed flamethrower is a direct, continuous damage weapon with a short range... which makes it very effective against Skulks and Lerks, less effective versus a Onos (I am assuming the Onos can plough through the flame and kill the marine using the unit).
Dont get me wrong, I would love to see a flamethrower... but I am concerned if the Marines are too cool, who would want to play the Kharaa and if the Kharaa were adjusted to match the Marines new weapons would they still be the unique Kharaa who were mostly melee and speed... or would alien weapons be added to give the Kharaa more ranged capacity, which would be bad. Bad because NS is unique in that the two opposing sides are not just visually different, but play completely different.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1663948:date=Dec 14 2007, 07:03 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ASnogarD @ Dec 14 2007, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663948"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Generally speaking the GL is an indirect weapon, used to spam and area deny ... most effective against the ground based Kharaa but a Skulk or a Lerk is able to remain above the weapons most effective area, so it is balanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The GL is most effective at destroying buildings, area deny is more of a side effect. That's the whole reason for the indirect fire nature of the weapon. If you're trying to bank shot fades or onos you're doing it wrong. The flame thrower will probably not do a lot of damage to players unless those players are in an enclosed space. The primary purpose will most likely be removing DI and structures. That is how it could be balanced.
Comments
I hope so. Perhaps a new type of suit for the marines, like a specialized enviromental suit meant for space vacuum, underwater, hazardous materials, lava/fire...
On the Kharaa side, maybe a new type of chamber, for combating area affects: fire, grenades, etc?
will flame thrower wearers get a different suit or will they be just as hurt but fire as other units. if they dont get quite as hurt by fire as other units perhaps kharaa will get a unit a little mroe retardant to fire, possably the lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i guess that depends on how they make the weapon. if its a smallish rifle thingy with a small cylinder built into the gun, then any marine could wield it (vanilla, HA, JP).
if it is like your current military flamethrower where they have a big cylinder on their backs, then HA probably couldnt use it, and definately not jetpackers. if thats the case, then i guess they could make the cylinder/backpack thingy come with a shiny flame resistant suit. but that also means if a flamethrower guy dies near you, the suit is lost, and therefore the gun....
personally i'd prefer the first option, where any unit/suit type could carry the gun (despite how cool a backpack fuel tank would look - imagine a skulk chomping it.... KABOOM!). maybe just make the Heavy Armor fire resistant in addition to lerk gas?
y, its cool , but NS (and especially 2) plays in the future, so why not make some kind of plasma-thrower or something else similar to flamethrowers? - but diffrent!
that would fit much better than the standard flamethrower imo
e.g flame thrower+xeno+spore+jp tank=massive hell-a BOOOOM!!!.
Wow would that look pretty it would be like fire works, as the Jp fuel burns a hot blue color, spores could burn a green color, xeno a crazy shrapnel effect of skulk fleash flying everywhere with trails, and the flame throw could erupt into a messy fire ball that does a push effect and splinters the air.
Primed xeno's other jp's or flamers in the area other Gl nades hiting the walls of fire acid rockets bile bombs and or spore clouds aimed to reach there destinaiton could also erupt on contact of each others exsplosion and just set of huge chain reactions - golden eye and perfect dark had this in their engine. The devistation would be immence and most likely out balanced, imagine a mined hive area and a self sacroficeing flamer in a lerks nest. Though at which point the exsplosions getting closer to the hive would switch lerks to umbra and protect that ceribate.
(my o key isn't wrking wtf)
I totally agree
Why would the TSA use technology that is outdated even now? Why not use super-heated plasma or 18M sulfuricc acid or gel-explosives or supercooled superfluid helium(to freeze) or (getting bigger) liquid c4, liquid uranium to produce a small fission reaction, hydrogen and helium to make fusion or the ultimate: antimatter gun for massive explosions.
I can anticipate one crit which is that some of these things produce massive explosions that could wipe out a ship up to planets. To answer:
1. It depends on the map or other.
2. They can make a small scale version of the nukes or fusion etc with the TSAs advanced nanotechnology.
(nanites save the day)
To Align: a plamsa thrower would be cheap, low-tech and outdated in the future setting of ns as would most of these technologies
y, its cool , but NS (and especially 2) plays in the future, so why not make some kind of plasma-thrower or something else similar to flamethrowers? - but diffrent!
that would fit much better than the standard flamethrower imo<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fire is plasma. Its just a mater of concentration. I used to be able to tell you the ratio of hyper-ionized atoms (plasma) in your average flame but its been a while. Also flamethrowers arn't outdated, they arnt used militarily anymore(geneva convicion I believe), but that hardly makes them outdated. Even when they were used militarily it was primarily a psychological/terrain clearing weapon, or to get at non standard targets (example would be a bunker).
That said there is no reason the TSA flamethrower could simply be a gas intake to a laser chamber (to heat the gas to a partial-plasma, aka fire). Hell that would even explain the relatively short range of a games flamethrower (as real flamethrowers can go nearly a football field).
Its all well and good to add all nifty weapons, but some players will need to play the aliens too... or did I miss the announcement concerning the removal of the Kharaa from NS:S ?
Try imagine being the Skulk trying to approach a marine squad with a flamer unit busy clearing halls and corners before entering... which will be the forst thing I do if I was given a volumetric flamethrower, burn the usual suspect skulk skulking areas.
Its all well and good to add all nifty weapons, but some players will need to play the aliens too... or did I miss the announcement concerning the removal of the Kharaa from NS:S ?
Try imagine being the Skulk trying to approach a marine squad with a flamer unit busy clearing halls and corners before entering... which will be the first thing I do if I was given a volumetric flamethrower, burn the usual suspect skulk skulking areas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could make the same argument about the GL now. The flamethrower will probably be tied to DI and be less player removal than DI removal. I'd imagine it to be deadly in a small vent maybe but in any kind of hallway the volumetric design would be limited.
QFT. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Dont get me wrong, I would love to see a flamethrower... but I am concerned if the Marines are too cool, who would want to play the Kharaa and if the Kharaa were adjusted to match the Marines new weapons would they still be the unique Kharaa who were mostly melee and speed... or would alien weapons be added to give the Kharaa more ranged capacity, which would be bad.
Bad because NS is unique in that the two opposing sides are not just visually different, but play completely different.
The GL is most effective at destroying buildings, area deny is more of a side effect. That's the whole reason for the indirect fire nature of the weapon. If you're trying to bank shot fades or onos you're doing it wrong. The flame thrower will probably not do a lot of damage to players unless those players are in an enclosed space. The primary purpose will most likely be removing DI and structures. That is how it could be balanced.