NS2 will support the parallax occlusion mapping ?

HatlabuFarkas

<div class="IPBDescription">POM rocks !!!</div>The parallax occlusion mapping is wonderful, and not take SPIKE to the CPU, because fully the VGA works on it. (if can.) i have a X1950xtx in crossfire mode, and i downloaded a <a href="http://www2.ati.com/misc/demos/ati-demo-toyshop-v1.2.exe" target="_blank">ATI Radeon x1800 demo to use Parallax</a>. i have no words to say here, what i can imagine in NS2. MUST USE the OPM !! i was started a search in <a href="http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu6GprzxHrCABiUNXNyoA?p=parallax+occlusion+mapping&y=Search&fr=moz2" target="_blank">YAHoo search engine</a>, and read all the found things. what found in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_mapping" target="_blank">Wikipedia</a>, all i found read too, and watch the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeF-kCr_vyo" target="_blank">YouTube video</a>. ALL MY WORDS is: "WONDERFUL" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

Here is some MORE Links to use to understand the Parallax mapping:

<a href="http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/compare.jpg" target="_blank">some pix</a>
<a href="http://www.hl2world.com/bbs/free-parallax-occlusion-shader-vt43769.html" target="_blank">some pix from HL2</a>
<a href="http://www.gamedev.net/columns/hardcore/pom" target="_blank">Gamedev</a>
<a href="http://accelenation.com/?ac.id.253.3" target="_blank">speculati0ns accelenation.com</a>
<a href="http://www.tonyambrus.net/software/graphics/parallax-mapping" target="_blank">speculati0ns tonyambrus.net</a>

i think this option is good for NS2.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

StixNStonz

Wow.

Crazy, but sounds like only the highest video cards can really run maps with it at an acceptable framerate. Doubt it'll be used in NS2.

Max

The first link you posted at the bottom (<a href="http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/index.html" target="_blank">here</a>) is actually something my brother and I did. There are actually a number of different techniques that give similar results, some of which are totally feasible on lower end video cards.

It's possible we may include something like this in NS2, but at the moment we're focused on more core aspects of the game.

schkorpio

<!--quoteo(post=1660745:date=Nov 16 2007, 11:53 AM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Max @ Nov 16 2007, 11:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660745"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The first link you posted at the bottom (<a href="http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/index.html" target="_blank">here</a>) is actually something my brother and I did<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

lol its small web <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

HatlabuFarkas

<!--quoteo(post=1660747:date=Nov 15 2007, 09:08 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Nov 15 2007, 09:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol its small web <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

YEYE thats true, the web is small (-: <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
i am happy to U create the thing over those link.

and i stil waiting 4 POM added to NS2 .

Drfuzzy

I vote add it, its simple and adds much more depth to the graphics. Also saves us custom modelers some work and lets the skinners have a bit more fun <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

HatlabuFarkas

the MAIN question is still STAY.

NS:Source will support "PAM" , or not support ?

UncleCrunch

POM is good for adding details on some 'planar' objects likes walls.

But this is no excuse to simplify or dumbing down the map layout and map details like you can see on HL². I must say that it is a little bit because of the Hammer editing tool, wich is a little bit...

Dont get me wrong, it is good. But only for some "ivy" on walls or thing you can't get close to. Just to add some optical illusion. I like 3D detail (3D good looking and optimized object). Unfortunatly, Hammer... haarr enough of that.

Bing the polys too !!!

StixNStonz

Uncle, sounds like you should become a modeller.

HatlabuFarkas

i wanna play NS in Highest resolution. i get a tools for that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> (2 x atix1950xtx in crossfire)

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> i wanna see the world of perfection <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> i wanna fear from the "level design" i dont wanna fear from ugly Pixeled monsters, like Duke nukem (OLD) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

kabab

Its not really that big of a deal or hard to add its just a shader i'm guessing there are some bigger concerns at the moment to address then some fancy shaders.

Harimau

it would be part of your ingame video settings then, perhaps?

i like it. it looks cool.

Fio

Adds to the realism as well as having a low performance 'cost', so to speak, at least from what I've read. Also, as the rendering of the effect is done in real time too, I guess that would eliminate the need for excess memory as opposed to rendering a true 3D object or 3D geometry out of more polygons, if you know what I mean. Well worth considering putting into the final game in my opinion! I'm sure the visual eye-candy this technique is capable of producing wouldn't be disappointing to see, though I also agree with what UncleCrunch has said. Overuse of POM or reducing the level of detail on maps wouldn't really be appealing.

kabab

<!--quoteo(post=1666448:date=Jan 6 2008, 05:05 AM:name=Fio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fio @ Jan 6 2008, 05:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666448"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess that would eliminate the need for excess memory as opposed to rendering a true 3D object or 3D geometry out of more polygons, if you know what I mean.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Well not really at a game dev conference i was at not so long ago some guys from one company weere saying after they did some research a 2k normal map used as much grunt as about 2500 polygon's (my numbers may be off but it was somewhere in that order). Also its not going to really save video ram as your going to need to store an extra texture as opposed to just your regular spec, diffuse + lightmap.

I'm not against it the idea its looks rather neat but its really not all that important and it could be easily added latter or at the map makers discretion.

Fio

<!--quoteo(post=1666463:date=Jan 6 2008, 01:06 PM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kabab @ Jan 6 2008, 01:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666463"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well not really at a game dev conference i was at not so long ago some guys from one company weere saying after they did some research a 2k normal map used as much grunt as about 2500 polygon's (my numbers may be off but it was somewhere in that order). Also its not going to really save video ram as your going to need to store an extra texture as opposed to just your regular spec, diffuse + lightmap.

I'm not against it the idea its looks rather neat but its really not all that important and it could be easily added latter or at the map makers discretion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well thanks for enlightening me, I guess I got it wrong a bit! What you say makes sense though, and yeah, at the end of the day, it's up to the map maker to use the feature in whatever manner they want if they choose to. I also dug up an interesting PDF file apparently from an ATI presentation from the GDC when I was doing a bit more research. I guess page 42 of the article was what I was trying to explain:

<a href="http://ati.amd.com/developer/gdc/2006/GDC06-Tatarchuk-Parallax_Occlusion_Mapping.pdf" target="_blank">http://ati.amd.com/developer/gdc/2006/GDC0...ion_Mapping.pdf</a>

Nevertheless, this article is a good read.

HatlabuFarkas

i am waiting for a OFFICIAL yes to POM. from unknown worlds <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

PogoP

I doubt they'll include it. I would imagine that they are going to use the new self-shadowing technique for textures, which gives the illusion of parallax mapping, without the added strain on your system.

Radix

<!--quoteo(post=1660745:date=Nov 15 2007, 08:53 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Max @ Nov 15 2007, 08:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660745"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...at the moment we're focused on more core aspects of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Thank you.

Thaldarin

How does this affect the game though? Will it actually make the environment open to the 'steeper' area's or will a player glide across it like it would on a normal mapped texture? If it does the latter it's not worth adding until it benefits from the physics advantage.

Harimau

The latter.
It's just meant to look cool :\ come on.

Thaldarin

From a design point of view just looking 'cool' isn't worth impacting lower systems performances without the physics change. Not worth implementing to be honest.

Radix

Is this synonymous or is what you're referencing even more advanced?

<a href="http://ati.amd.com/developer/gdc/2007/Dachsbacher-Tatarchuk-Prism_Parallax_Occlusion_Mapping_with_Accurate_Silhouette_Generation(SI3D07).pdf" target="_blank">http://ati.amd.com/developer/gdc/2007/Dach...ion(SI3D07).pdf</a>

HatlabuFarkas

of course the LOWER vga cards not support that, but if u have a Bigger one, (or two <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> ) u MUST see in the game the POM. (remember, the POM is NOT work with HDR )

(edited : added remember line)

aNytiMe

<a href="http://www.infinity-universe.com/InfinityForums/viewtopic.php?t=6823&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=parallax+occlusion" target="_blank">http://www.infinity-universe.com/InfinityF...allax+occlusion</a>

It is not "wonderful".

HatlabuFarkas

<!--quoteo(post=1677642:date=May 4 2008, 06:13 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ May 4 2008, 06:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1677642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.infinity-universe.com/InfinityForums/viewtopic.php?t=6823&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=parallax+occlusion" target="_blank">http://www.infinity-universe.com/InfinityF...allax+occlusion</a>

It is not "wonderful".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


really the basic thing is go0d. this ability is only a trick.

But recevie a BIG jump from a Flat textures....

The main question Still stands. we are waiting for an OFFICIAL answer :
"yes, we will put this small thing to the NS:Source"

(or somehimg like that.)

Insane

This is your official answer:

<!--quoteo(post=1660745:date=Nov 16 2007, 02:53 AM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Max @ Nov 16 2007, 02:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660745"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's possible we may include something like this in NS2, but at the moment we're focused on more core aspects of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


This isn't a very important feature and they have a lot of other things they could be focusing on.

kontrolfreek

if i understand correctly, the shaders in source alone will not pom but there are shaders out there you can use that will, question is will ns2 have their own shaders that allow us to use a displacement and a bump map on the texture.