Counter-espionage and Paranoia
lolfighter
Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">in TF2</div>Once half-decent spies enter the picture, TF2 becomes a game of paranoia. That guy over there, he's wearing your colours, but is he REALLY on your side or will you end up with a ghastly wound between your shoulder blades the moment you turn your back on him? Unfortunately, there are few sure-fire ways to identify enemy spies, and they can be costly in terms of time. The more time you spend looking for spies, the less time you spend hurting the enemy.
Frankly, I believe this guide is misplaced. The average NS player (including former NS players) is quite aware of the importance of understanding gameplay mechanics, and will know most or all of the things I am about to mention. However, there's always the chance that there are one or two of these things you don't know, and I don't know where else to post it. Maybe you have something to point out that I missed, as well.
Like I said, there are few sure-fire ways to identify enemy spies. There are, however, several quick and sure-fire ways to identify not-spies. By utilising these, we can both quickly ascertain which "teammates" we can safely turn our back on and make it more difficult for enemy spies to infiltrate our team for any length of time.
#1: Spies are not your enemy: A visible spy is usually who he claims to be.
The spy you see is NOT the spy who kills you. Of course, any spy wearing the opposing team's colours is an enemy and should be shot to death, but any spy wearing your own colours is almost certainly a teammate. Spies don't like disguising as spies. This is NOT a sure-fire way to identify not-spies, but it's close enough to warrant inclusion.
#2: Paper masks are your friend: A spy wearing a paper mask is your ally.
Any spy should be disguised as much as possible. An enemy spy disguising as a friendly spy (as rare as these are) will NOT be wearing a paper mask. An enemy spy disguising as anything will look like whatever they're disguising as. A friendly spy disguising as anything will wear a paper mask to show that they are in disguise. What this means is that if you see a spy wearing a paper mask, you can be 100% certain that he is not an enemy. Don't waste your time spychecking him.
#3: The fighting man is your friend: Spies don't shoot.
This goes for the pyro who fired a quick burst of flame at you, the medic who is healing a teammate (or even you), the soldier who is spamming rockets at a doorway and the "spy" that you're busy "killing" who then turns around and fires a shotgun blast at you: They're not spies. A spy who fires their weapon (and their weapon is a revolver or knife, NOT a rocket launcher) loses their disguise. It seems so obvious, but apparently it isn't, judging by how many players don't seem to grasp this concept. Don't waste your time spychecking people firing their weapons.
#4: We're all special. Except spies.
Spies do not have access to the special ability of the class they're disguised as. A spy disguised as a heavy can't spin the barrel on his assault cannon. A spy disguised as a scout can't doublejump. A spy disguised as a sniper can't zoom in (i.e. raise his sniper rifle). Don't waste your time spychecking people doing that.
#5: A spy is a master of disguises, not arms.
An enemy spy in disguise will always seem to be holding the default (primary, slot 1) weapon of the class he is disguising as. This means that anyone holding a different weapon is NOT a spy. Don't waste your time spychecking them.
So what can you do? How can YOU help make life harder for enemy spies? It is difficult to strike a balance between not enough and too much. Worry too little about spies and they will make you pay for it. Worry too much about spies and you may end up forgetting about the bigger threat: The rest of the enemy team. So to do your part:
Be paranoid - but not too paranoid. Keep in mind the five ways of identifying not-spies and learn to trust them. #2-5 are set in stone, and #1 is so near-universal that it might as well be.
Behave like a not-spy. Whenever you have the time, show your fellow paranoid-but-not-too-paranoid teammates that you are a not-spy. Don't worry about this when you're busy fighting - the mere act of combat is a bigger sign of a not-spy than anything else. But suppose you're running back for a medpack, whip out your melee weapon. This way, your fellow paranoid-but-not-too-paranoid teammates can see that you are a not-spy, and you can also give them a friendly spy-checking whack as you run by without wasting ammunition. By clearly showing that you are a not-spy, you make it easier for the rest of your team to spy-check only those who could be spies.
And something that deserves special note: be considerate of your engineers. They're the most paranoid of you all, and both enemy spies and teammates alike will greedily barrel down on their dispenser-turret setup, albeit with wildly differing intentions. Show them that you are a not-spy by holding your melee weapon when you visit a dispenser for health and ammo. The engineer's frayed nerves will thank you.
The immediate pay-off of this is that with relatively minimal effort, you make your turf a much more hostile place for enemy spies. An actual spy among five potential spies is camouflaged. An actual spy among five paranoid-but-not-too-paranoid not-spies sticks out like a sore thumb.
Be paranoid - but not too paranoid. But more importantly: Be a not-spy. Thank you.
Frankly, I believe this guide is misplaced. The average NS player (including former NS players) is quite aware of the importance of understanding gameplay mechanics, and will know most or all of the things I am about to mention. However, there's always the chance that there are one or two of these things you don't know, and I don't know where else to post it. Maybe you have something to point out that I missed, as well.
Like I said, there are few sure-fire ways to identify enemy spies. There are, however, several quick and sure-fire ways to identify not-spies. By utilising these, we can both quickly ascertain which "teammates" we can safely turn our back on and make it more difficult for enemy spies to infiltrate our team for any length of time.
#1: Spies are not your enemy: A visible spy is usually who he claims to be.
The spy you see is NOT the spy who kills you. Of course, any spy wearing the opposing team's colours is an enemy and should be shot to death, but any spy wearing your own colours is almost certainly a teammate. Spies don't like disguising as spies. This is NOT a sure-fire way to identify not-spies, but it's close enough to warrant inclusion.
#2: Paper masks are your friend: A spy wearing a paper mask is your ally.
Any spy should be disguised as much as possible. An enemy spy disguising as a friendly spy (as rare as these are) will NOT be wearing a paper mask. An enemy spy disguising as anything will look like whatever they're disguising as. A friendly spy disguising as anything will wear a paper mask to show that they are in disguise. What this means is that if you see a spy wearing a paper mask, you can be 100% certain that he is not an enemy. Don't waste your time spychecking him.
#3: The fighting man is your friend: Spies don't shoot.
This goes for the pyro who fired a quick burst of flame at you, the medic who is healing a teammate (or even you), the soldier who is spamming rockets at a doorway and the "spy" that you're busy "killing" who then turns around and fires a shotgun blast at you: They're not spies. A spy who fires their weapon (and their weapon is a revolver or knife, NOT a rocket launcher) loses their disguise. It seems so obvious, but apparently it isn't, judging by how many players don't seem to grasp this concept. Don't waste your time spychecking people firing their weapons.
#4: We're all special. Except spies.
Spies do not have access to the special ability of the class they're disguised as. A spy disguised as a heavy can't spin the barrel on his assault cannon. A spy disguised as a scout can't doublejump. A spy disguised as a sniper can't zoom in (i.e. raise his sniper rifle). Don't waste your time spychecking people doing that.
#5: A spy is a master of disguises, not arms.
An enemy spy in disguise will always seem to be holding the default (primary, slot 1) weapon of the class he is disguising as. This means that anyone holding a different weapon is NOT a spy. Don't waste your time spychecking them.
So what can you do? How can YOU help make life harder for enemy spies? It is difficult to strike a balance between not enough and too much. Worry too little about spies and they will make you pay for it. Worry too much about spies and you may end up forgetting about the bigger threat: The rest of the enemy team. So to do your part:
Be paranoid - but not too paranoid. Keep in mind the five ways of identifying not-spies and learn to trust them. #2-5 are set in stone, and #1 is so near-universal that it might as well be.
Behave like a not-spy. Whenever you have the time, show your fellow paranoid-but-not-too-paranoid teammates that you are a not-spy. Don't worry about this when you're busy fighting - the mere act of combat is a bigger sign of a not-spy than anything else. But suppose you're running back for a medpack, whip out your melee weapon. This way, your fellow paranoid-but-not-too-paranoid teammates can see that you are a not-spy, and you can also give them a friendly spy-checking whack as you run by without wasting ammunition. By clearly showing that you are a not-spy, you make it easier for the rest of your team to spy-check only those who could be spies.
And something that deserves special note: be considerate of your engineers. They're the most paranoid of you all, and both enemy spies and teammates alike will greedily barrel down on their dispenser-turret setup, albeit with wildly differing intentions. Show them that you are a not-spy by holding your melee weapon when you visit a dispenser for health and ammo. The engineer's frayed nerves will thank you.
The immediate pay-off of this is that with relatively minimal effort, you make your turf a much more hostile place for enemy spies. An actual spy among five potential spies is camouflaged. An actual spy among five paranoid-but-not-too-paranoid not-spies sticks out like a sore thumb.
Be paranoid - but not too paranoid. But more importantly: Be a not-spy. Thank you.
Comments
At this point I don't have trouble with spies ever, EXCEPT when they surprise or ambush me, in which case disguise doesn't matter so much. Unfortunately this isn't very hard to do with corners and cloaking; spies can just head past you and uncloak near your teammates, albeit out of sight, and you'll have no reason to look behind yourself... you think.
STAB
#6: Non-collision applies only to your teammates, not enemy spies.
If you EVER feel a *bump* while running through teammates or anywhere where you know where you are (no obstacles) turn to and shoot it in the face until it's no longer standing.
I can't say how many times I've felt a spy uncloaking behind me while backpaddling. Always turn around AT ONCE and see to it.
Potential #7
Where is that demoman looking? at me? shotgun in face. Even the slightest over the shoulder glance at someones back should be treated with suspicion. As someone put it in the other tf2 thread, it's quite ridiculous how some spies stare at your allies backs, drooling over their exposed weakness. Don't forget any "allies" dodging your spy check shots are also highly suspicious, fire until dead or fired back upon.
<!--quoteo(post=1661655:date=Nov 24 2007, 04:47 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 24 2007, 04:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661655"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#5: A spy is a master of disguises, not arms.
An enemy spy in disguise will always seem to be holding the default (primary, slot 1) weapon of the class he is disguising as. This means that anyone holding a different weapon is NOT a spy. Don't waste your time spychecking them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always find a defending pyro will shoot anyone and anything regardless, especially on ctf maps pyro's are just spy-detectors.
<!--quoteo(post=1661690:date=Nov 24 2007, 06:07 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Nov 24 2007, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1661690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Potential #7
Where is that demoman looking? at me? shotgun in face. Even the slightest over the shoulder glance at someones back should be treated with suspicion. As someone put it in the other tf2 thread, it's quite ridiculous how some spies stare at your allies backs, drooling over their exposed weakness. Don't forget any "allies" dodging your spy check shots are also highly suspicious, fire until dead or fired back upon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True! Also keep an eye on the location of each player. Should a sniper really rush the next capture point along with the soldiers? Most likely not. That Engineer came out of the water? What the hell was he doing there? That soldier is calling "Medic" but has full health? (ok this one happens often with REAL teammates though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) That Demoman stays hidden in the corner and there are no stickies nearby? etc.etc. Also, if you stick by a heavy-medic combo or heavily defended points, you should expect spies to pop up from everywhere, at least on a good server <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
However, people behaving oddly for their class and for the state of the game are suspect, and might be worth a good shotgunning if they are not not-spies.
Collisions are a good point, I forgot about those: Don't worry about anyone you just ran through, they can't be enemy spies.
Small point of interest: Who's faster, a spy or a medic? Medics count among the fastest classes, faster than even a pyro. Is a spy just as fast, or a little slower? It doesn't matter much: The difference, if any, is too small to notice most of the time, and spies very rarely disguise as medics.
Firsly yes. Secondly no. That'd be a stupid mistake to make.
However, people behaving oddly for their class and for the state of the game are suspect, and might be worth a good shotgunning if they are not not-spies.
Collisions are a good point, I forgot about those: Don't worry about anyone you just ran through, they can't be enemy spies.
Small point of interest: Who's faster, a spy or a medic? Medics count among the fastest classes, faster than even a pyro. Is a spy just as fast, or a little slower? It doesn't matter much: The difference, if any, is too small to notice most of the time, and spies very rarely disguise as medics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think spies runs as fast as a demoman, just a bit slower then a medic. Disguise as something faster and they will get, at least, a small speed boost.
Icons DO show above peoples heads when they use mic. I've spotted otherwise entirely invisible spies that way many times.
Now why would that be? Assuming that you play NS because you're on the NS boards you must know how important communication is for the success of a team. Further more, voice communication simplifies and streamlines the means of team work. Again, I haven't played TF2, but thinking about that it is called Team Fortress and a number of people emphasis the fact that the team does need to work together I would think that communication is in, and thus voice chat is even more in.
The reason I posed the question was if there is indeed an icon above the players head when talking (and all talk isn't on) you will have yet one more "sign" as to "not a baddie". For that matter, you could just talk to someone and see if they react to what you say since the enemy can't hear you (though, I suppose the speed at which the game moves is a little too fast for this to be overly beneficial, other than say a medic turning and healing you when you yell over the mic). The other situation, which Align pointed out, is in situations when all talk is on (and again, there would need to be a nice pretty icon showing over the head) and a enemy spy decides to join the conversation at hand (similar to a cloaked skulk chatting away).
Now would it be a stupid mistake Thaldrin? Either you are at a loss for which animated character is speaking ("I'm the sniper jumping next to you, yes, over here! No, not that way") which helps the spy or you include and icon which helps the team as a whole a lot and slightly reduces the ease of playing as a spy. Then again, shouldn't a spy player be clever enough if All-Talk is on not to speak; and if the other team does communicate regularly (when all-talk is off) shouldn't they be awarded with the benefit that they have an easier time deducing who may be a potential spy?
#8 When you see someone on your team comming from a location where he has no buisiness to be or a class is in a location where he just wont be if he has any brain at all, shoot him dead in the face. I've seen to many "snipers" trying to outflank me as sniper in a standard spy movement towards me back to commense the stabbystab.
#9 Keep a sharp eye out for feint traces of otherteam color mist, when a cloaked spy brushes up against one of you teamates he leaves a trail of enemy team colored mist...
#10 Snipers hate spies on a similar level as engies, I sometimes just sit at the standard sniper location not zoomed in to see everything. Spies don't know I'm not zoomed in even when I'm not putting the rifle against my shoulder.. They got this drooling free kill look on their face only the get a bigger knife in their face instead <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
[edit]
and No9 and No10 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
There's no icon unless alltalk is on, of course.
Regardless, spies are easy to find when you're actively looking for them, but that's not the point. The point is to passively look for them. To implement a set of behaviours that makes it harder for spies to blend in and thereby makes it more likely that they will stand out and be revealed. Ideally, all of this is accomplished with minimal or no extra time or effort, so that it doesn't take away time from what you SHOULD be doing: Hurting the enemy.
I should hope that someone with your name would be a giveaway no matter what direction they're running.
Or... not and.
When an enemy spy disguises as a member of your team, the game will show the name of a teammate of the class that the spy is disguising as. If there are no players of that class on the team, the game will show a random teammate's name.
Examples: The red team consists of two soldiers (Bob and Joe), a demoman (Willie) and a medic (Franz).
Example 1: Blue spy disguises as red soldier. The game randomly chooses between the names of red players playing soldier (Bob and Joe) and settles on Joe. If any red player (including Joe) looks at the spy, they see him as Joe.
Example 2: Blue spy disguises as red medic. The game randomly chooses between the names of red players playing medic (only Franz). If any red player (including Franz) looks at the spy, they see him as Franz.
Example 3: Blue spy disguises as red pyro. There are no red pyros, so the game randomly chooses between the names of all the red players, and settles on Franz again because it likes that name. The spy has several rockets applied to his face and is shipped home to the blue team in a bucket.