<!--quoteo(post=1662069:date=Nov 27 2007, 03:55 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 27 2007, 03:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game favored playing stealthy pacifist and I didn't find it fun. That was my point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, that's an artificial limitation you imposed on yourself because you feel like sucking up to your brother. The game doesn't favor anything. Paul favors the pacifist approach, but Gunther and Anna definitely don't, and you can follow either, or choose your own path. You're mistaking characters yelling at you for the game yelling at you. Those are totally different things. If you turn to the dark side in KOTOR, Bastila berates you for just about every bad thing you do. Does this mean the game favors the light side? No. In fact, the whole point of the game is the choice between dark and light. In Deus Ex, it's the choice between peaceful and ruthless.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
edited November 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1662064:date=Nov 27 2007, 01:30 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 27 2007, 01:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662064"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Jeez there should be an addendum to Godwin's law to include 9/11. We're not talking about a falsifiable event; we're talking about how much a certain playstyle appeals to me.
What part wasn't I addressing? That you only got two extra ammo clips? I saw where the game was going, the pattern of playing the game a certain way to get the best stuff. I didn't like the game enough to continue playing that way, and the other way it's just another shooter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is no pattern. Your interpretation of the game mechanics is so myopic that it borders on delusional. The only factor that plays any part in whether or not you get any item of real value is your competence. If you get the job done, you will get a suitable reward, regardless of the method you used. If you make things harder on yourself and fail an objective because of it, well, that's life, and in most other games you'd be forced to reload a save.
And since you seem to think that the choice you made was somehow one dimensional, let's take a closer look at it. Right at the beginning of the game, your brother Paul tells you not to kill anyone and suggests a variety of nonlethal tactics. Ten seconds later, your superiors order you to shoot on sight. And just in case that doesn't drive the point home, everyone you left alive in the first mission is killed by your co-workers. Now, let's look at your two choices.
If you side with Paul, you have to severely handicap by using nonlethal weapons or avoiding confrontations completely. In return, you get: The moral high ground - A lot less people had to die thanks to you. The respect of Paul and Sam Carter. This is good if you like ammo, because Carter is the quartermaster at UNATCO. On the other hand, the motives of both Paul and Carter turn out to be suspect later on in the game, and you can find evidence of this right off the bat if you look hard enough.
If you decide to follow orders, all you have to do is kill anyone who gets in your way by any means necessary, which is definitely the easiest way to do things. In return, you get: The moral high ground - There are quite a few less terrorists in the world thanks to you. The respect and admiration of literally everyone at UNATCO other than Paul and Carter. Most notably Joseph Manderley. This is good if you like money, because Manderley happens to be your current employer. On the other hand, Manderley's bosses turn out to be a bunch of a<i></i>ssholes and you missed your chance to stick it to the man.
This choice, much like any choice in real life, is deep, multifaceted, not completely obvious, and yes, not equal. If this kind of choice makes you unhappy, you should probably commit suicide, because this is the kind of thing that makes life interesting!
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1662070:date=Nov 27 2007, 04:58 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 27 2007, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662070"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, that's an artificial limitation you imposed on yourself because you feel like sucking up to your brother. The game doesn't favor anything. Paul favors the pacifist approach, but Gunther and Anna definitely don't, and you can follow either, or choose your own path. You're mistaking characters yelling at you for the game yelling at you. Those are totally different things. If you turn to the dark side in KOTOR, Bastila berates you for just about every bad thing you do. Does this mean the game favors the light side? No. In fact, the whole point of the game is the choice between dark and light. In Deus Ex, it's the choice between peaceful and ruthless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right, KOTOR doesn't favor one side, neither did Overlord. I liked both those games. In Dues Ex I could artificially limit myself(sometimes called a choice) to play a pacifist which gave you benefits. I did not find playing the game this way fun. I could also "artificially limit" myself to killing everything in sight. This way didn't receive the benefit the other side and did not have any advantage. This is unlike the two games I mentioned where you get equal but different outcomes for the different play styles. Also this second way was the same as any other shooter. I did not find this way fun.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1662072:date=Nov 27 2007, 02:27 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 27 2007, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're right, KOTOR doesn't favor one side, neither did Overlord. I liked both those games. In Dues Ex I could artificially limit myself(sometimes called a choice) to play a pacifist which gave you benefits. I did not find playing the game this way fun. I could also "artificially limit" myself to killing everything in sight. This way didn't receive the benefit the other side and did not have any advantage. This is unlike the two games I mentioned where you get equal but different outcomes for the different play styles. Also this second way was the same as any other shooter. I did not find this way fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you really couldn't find a way to kill somebody that wasn't the same as any other shooter, I am appalled and amazed by your lack of imagination.
<!--quoteo(post=1662072:date=Nov 27 2007, 04:27 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 27 2007, 04:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're right, KOTOR doesn't favor one side, neither did Overlord. I liked both those games. In Dues Ex I could artificially limit myself(sometimes called a choice) to play a pacifist which gave you benefits. I did not find playing the game this way fun. I could also "artificially limit" myself to killing everything in sight. This way didn't receive the benefit the other side and did not have any advantage. This is unlike the two games I mentioned where you get equal but different outcomes for the different play styles. Also this second way was the same as any other shooter. I did not find this way fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, if you didn't find it fun at all, I'm guessing the problem's with you, not the game, because it won so many game of the year awards and got such great reviews (and has such a huge fan following) that it looks like it did things right in that regard. I guess you just happen to not like the combat or something. I'd try the middle ground. Instead of playing it like Thief or Quake, try playing it like Far Cry, where the game rewards a methodic approach where you plan everything out instead of a run and gun approach where you slaughter everyone. The game will work no matter what you do but in this case you don't find the second way fun, so I'd try the first.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1662076:date=Nov 27 2007, 05:44 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 27 2007, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662076"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, if you didn't find it fun at all, I'm guessing the problem's with you, not the game, because it won so many game of the year awards and got such great reviews (and has such a huge fan following) that it looks like it did things right in that regard. I guess you just happen to not like the combat or something. I'd try the middle ground. Instead of playing it like Thief or Quake, try playing it like Far Cry, where the game rewards a methodic approach where you plan everything out instead of a run and gun approach where you slaughter everyone. The game will work no matter what you do but in this case you don't find the second way fun, so I'd try the first.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never said it was the game's fault. I just said I didn't like it and why I didn't like it. That's why I said "Of course that's an opinion". I don't expect every game to conform to my demands, and I don't expect to like every game even if people say it's "good".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know what *I* liked about Deus Ex? That it was singleplayer. I could choose whatever gameplay style I wanted and be happy with it. And I didn't have to listen to people complain about the way THEY chose to play the game.
So I guess the moral of Deus Ex is that it's in pain in the ass and boring to be good, but fun and satisfying to be vicious, and in the end, both 'choices' mean essentially nothing besides two extra clips of ammo? Reminds me of a scene in Kill Bill 2. What are you trying to convince me of, exactly? That your game's idea of choice is as useless as an a-hole right here (points to elbow)?
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1662078:date=Nov 27 2007, 05:55 PM:name=Pulse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pulse @ Nov 27 2007, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662078"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like I not so subtlely implied before, your reasons for disliking the game are stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry?
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1662080:date=Nov 27 2007, 02:58 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Nov 27 2007, 02:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I guess the moral of Deus Ex is that it's in pain in the ass and boring to be good, but fun and satisfying to be vicious, and in the end, both 'choices' mean essentially nothing besides two extra clips of ammo? Reminds me of a scene in Kill Bill 2. What are you trying to convince me of, exactly? That your game's idea of choice is as useless as an a-hole right here (points to elbow)?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> At this point, you're trying to convince me that you're not very bright. And I must say, you're a very persuasive fellow.
I always thought I'd go out with a bang. Sometimes I think the only reason I come here anymore is for Testament's posts, and if you can't beat em', join em'.
<!--quoteo(post=1662078:date=Nov 27 2007, 05:55 PM:name=Pulse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pulse @ Nov 27 2007, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662078"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like I not so subtlely implied before, your reasons for disliking the game are stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> your reasons for liking the game are stupid. there are lots of games with different ways to kill or not kill people. there are lots of games that make it more fun to be 'good'. Thief and Hitman can be more interesting (and rewarding) if you opt to kill no one. Planescape is, contrary to what Tycho said earlier, easier if you play the good guy, because talking your way through situations doesn't have to result in violence and getting yourself hurt. Planescape also offers much more variety in the results of your choices, too, rather than one or two lines of dialog changing.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1662087:date=Nov 27 2007, 03:11 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Nov 27 2007, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->your reasons for liking the game are stupid. there are lots of games with different ways to kill or not kill people. there are lots of games that make it more fun to be 'good'. Thief and Hitman can be more interesting (and rewarding) if you opt to kill no one. Planescape is, contrary to what Tycho said earlier, easier if you play the good guy, because talking your way through situations doesn't have to result in violence and getting yourself hurt. Planescape also offers much more variety in the results of your choices, too, rather than one or two lines of dialog changing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't even state my reasons for liking the game and I didn't read anything past the first sentence of your post but ok.
aw, look who ran out of arguments <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1662080:date=Nov 27 2007, 04:58 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Nov 27 2007, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I guess the moral of Deus Ex is that it's in pain in the ass and boring to be good, but fun and satisfying to be vicious, and in the end, both 'choices' mean essentially nothing besides two extra clips of ammo?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not boring to be good any more than it's boring to play Thief. They're similar playing styles: sneak around everywhere, and use nonlethal weapons to take down unsuspecting enemies as you dart from shadow to shadow, quietly. Some people don't like that (I do), but if you don't, you can always play it one of the many, many other ways that Deus Ex can be played.
<!--quoteo(post=1662087:date=Nov 27 2007, 05:11 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Nov 27 2007, 05:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->your reasons for liking the game are stupid. there are lots of games with different ways to kill or not kill people. there are lots of games that make it more fun to be 'good'. Thief and Hitman can be more interesting (and rewarding) if you opt to kill no one. Planescape is, contrary to what Tycho said earlier, easier if you play the good guy, because talking your way through situations doesn't have to result in violence and getting yourself hurt. Planescape also offers much more variety in the results of your choices, too, rather than one or two lines of dialog changing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't even mention Planescape :/ In any case, Planescape is a totally different game in a ton of ways. Thief and Hitman are more interesting and rewarding if you don't kill anyone, sure, but so is Deus Ex (if you like that kind of stuff). Some people like being sneaky and not bloodthirsty, some people don't. It all depends on what you like. The point in Deus Ex is not that you have a lot of ways to kill people, but a lot of ways to approach problems and a lot of ways to play the game. It's not a question of "how do I kill this next group of people." It's a larger question of "how do I approach this base/city/house."
Of course, depending on what you like in a game, this might be secondary to everything. I like the choices in Deus Ex, sure, but what I also like is the amazing writing, the good voice acting, the music, the plot, the environments that I'm free to explore, the awesome dystopian future setting, the conversations, the secrets, etc. Whether I choose to play as a stealthy sneaky dude, or Rambo, or a crazy man running around hitting people with a crowbar, or a methodical sniper, or a dude with a bunch of gadgets who hacks, lockpicks, and jumps his way around obstacles, really isn't the center of the game to me.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1662092:date=Nov 27 2007, 03:34 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 27 2007, 03:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662092"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of course, depending on what you like in a game, this might be secondary to everything. I like the choices in Deus Ex, sure, but what I also like is the amazing writing, <b>the good voice acting</b>, the music, the plot, the environments that I'm free to explore, the awesome dystopian future setting, the conversations, the secrets, etc. Whether I choose to play as a stealthy sneaky dude, or Rambo, or a crazy man running around hitting people with a crowbar, or a methodical sniper, or a dude with a bunch of gadgets who hacks, lockpicks, and jumps his way around obstacles, really isn't the center of the game to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not even I can back you up on that one. Also, as a result of your post I ended up reading Discozombie's, and it was just as stupid as I thought it would be. I blame you for this.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1662080:date=Nov 27 2007, 05:58 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Nov 27 2007, 05:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I guess the moral of Deus Ex is that it's in pain in the ass and boring to be good, but fun and satisfying to be vicious, and in the end, both 'choices' mean essentially nothing besides two extra clips of ammo? Reminds me of a scene in Kill Bill 2. What are you trying to convince me of, exactly? That your game's idea of choice is as useless as an a-hole right here (points to elbow)?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No no no, the moral is if you don't agree with <b>Pulse</b> your opinions are stupid. Didn't you read the thread?
<!--quoteo(post=1662093:date=Nov 27 2007, 05:40 PM:name=Pulse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pulse @ Nov 27 2007, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not even I can back you up on that one. Also, as a result of your post I ended up reading Discozombie's, and it was just as stupid as I thought it would be. I blame you for this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I said "good voice acting" I guess I was mostly just thinking of JC, Everett, Simons, and the MiB. Everyone else can go back to central casting to await their next turn as "stereotype of the week."
it's ironic that I didn't even want to get involved in this argument; in my first post in the thread, I said I owed the game another shot. It just so happens that the first couple times I tried to play the game years ago, I got frustrated at how difficult and unrewarding it seemed to try to be 'good'. I think I gave up one playthrough after I swore I didn't kill anyone and the quartermaster still chewed me out like I had. I was guessing an NPC or NPC-triggered explosion must have done it and credited me. but anyway, when someone calls me out, I have to defend my viewpoint, even if I already think I owe the game another shot. =p
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1662097:date=Nov 27 2007, 06:47 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 27 2007, 06:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When I said "good voice acting" I guess I was mostly just thinking of JC, Everett, Simons, and the MiB. Everyone else can go back to central casting to await their next turn as "stereotype of the week."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You know who else used bad voice acting?
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1662101:date=Nov 27 2007, 03:52 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 27 2007, 03:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662101"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know who else used bad voice acting? Hitler<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No Hitler was a really good voice actor haven't you heard his speeches
<!--quoteo(post=1662069:date=Nov 27 2007, 09:55 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 27 2007, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game favored playing stealthy pacifist and I didn't find it fun. That was my point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1662154:date=Nov 28 2007, 09:26 AM:name=Abra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Abra @ Nov 28 2007, 09:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662154"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow. You kids are insanely quick to pick up fights!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> NO WE'RE NOT. YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!
<!--quoteo(post=1662069:date=Nov 27 2007, 09:55 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 27 2007, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game favored playing stealthy pacifist and I didn't find it fun. That was my point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno, I was a stealthy hacker with a rocket launcher....but that worked for me. Your ability to adapt using the path you pick is pretty important in Deus Ex, you do have to live with your actions. <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>For axample when you fail to save whats his names daughter, hes distort the next few times you see him, but if you succeed you get some nice gadgets, that dont really affect the game much if you intentianly got his daughter killed to save ammo.</span>
The way the game was advertised, was more multiple ways to solve a puzzle.
Anyway, as long as its somewhere between Deus Ex and Deus Ex 2 ill be happy.
This thread reminds me why I don't contribute much to these boards anymore. You've basically gone "you're stupid", "no <i>you're</i> stupid" for three pages and neither of you realise the truth of the matter.
<span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>You're both stupid.</span>
Back on topic though, I don't know why the hell they bother to release teasers at this early stage when they don't really tell us anything about the game other than its going to be titled Deus Ex 3. In fact thats probably wrong as well as the final title will inevitably contain at least five colons. Because its not a <i>real</i> game if it doesn't have a colon somewhere in the title.
Comments
No, that's an artificial limitation you imposed on yourself because you feel like sucking up to your brother. The game doesn't favor anything. Paul favors the pacifist approach, but Gunther and Anna definitely don't, and you can follow either, or choose your own path. You're mistaking characters yelling at you for the game yelling at you. Those are totally different things. If you turn to the dark side in KOTOR, Bastila berates you for just about every bad thing you do. Does this mean the game favors the light side? No. In fact, the whole point of the game is the choice between dark and light. In Deus Ex, it's the choice between peaceful and ruthless.
What part wasn't I addressing? That you only got two extra ammo clips? I saw where the game was going, the pattern of playing the game a certain way to get the best stuff. I didn't like the game enough to continue playing that way, and the other way it's just another shooter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no pattern. Your interpretation of the game mechanics is so myopic that it borders on delusional. The only factor that plays any part in whether or not you get any item of real value is your competence. If you get the job done, you will get a suitable reward, regardless of the method you used. If you make things harder on yourself and fail an objective because of it, well, that's life, and in most other games you'd be forced to reload a save.
And since you seem to think that the choice you made was somehow one dimensional, let's take a closer look at it. Right at the beginning of the game, your brother Paul tells you not to kill anyone and suggests a variety of nonlethal tactics. Ten seconds later, your superiors order you to shoot on sight. And just in case that doesn't drive the point home, everyone you left alive in the first mission is killed by your co-workers. Now, let's look at your two choices.
If you side with Paul, you have to severely handicap by using nonlethal weapons or avoiding confrontations completely. In return, you get: The moral high ground - A lot less people had to die thanks to you. The respect of Paul and Sam Carter. This is good if you like ammo, because Carter is the quartermaster at UNATCO. On the other hand, the motives of both Paul and Carter turn out to be suspect later on in the game, and you can find evidence of this right off the bat if you look hard enough.
If you decide to follow orders, all you have to do is kill anyone who gets in your way by any means necessary, which is definitely the easiest way to do things. In return, you get: The moral high ground - There are quite a few less terrorists in the world thanks to you. The respect and admiration of literally everyone at UNATCO other than Paul and Carter. Most notably Joseph Manderley. This is good if you like money, because Manderley happens to be your current employer. On the other hand, Manderley's bosses turn out to be a bunch of a<i></i>ssholes and you missed your chance to stick it to the man.
This choice, much like any choice in real life, is deep, multifaceted, not completely obvious, and yes, not equal. If this kind of choice makes you unhappy, you should probably commit suicide, because this is the kind of thing that makes life interesting!
You're right, KOTOR doesn't favor one side, neither did Overlord. I liked both those games. In Dues Ex I could artificially limit myself(sometimes called a choice) to play a pacifist which gave you benefits. I did not find playing the game this way fun. I could also "artificially limit" myself to killing everything in sight. This way didn't receive the benefit the other side and did not have any advantage. This is unlike the two games I mentioned where you get equal but different outcomes for the different play styles. Also this second way was the same as any other shooter. I did not find this way fun.
If you really couldn't find a way to kill somebody that wasn't the same as any other shooter, I am appalled and amazed by your lack of imagination.
Well, if you didn't find it fun at all, I'm guessing the problem's with you, not the game, because it won so many game of the year awards and got such great reviews (and has such a huge fan following) that it looks like it did things right in that regard. I guess you just happen to not like the combat or something. I'd try the middle ground. Instead of playing it like Thief or Quake, try playing it like Far Cry, where the game rewards a methodic approach where you plan everything out instead of a run and gun approach where you slaughter everyone. The game will work no matter what you do but in this case you don't find the second way fun, so I'd try the first.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never said it was the game's fault. I just said I didn't like it and why I didn't like it. That's why I said "Of course that's an opinion". I don't expect every game to conform to my demands, and I don't expect to like every game even if people say it's "good".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry?
At this point, you're trying to convince me that you're not very bright. And I must say, you're a very persuasive fellow.
<!--quoteo(post=1662083:date=Nov 27 2007, 03:01 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 27 2007, 03:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662083"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Apology accepted.
I always thought I'd go out with a bang. Sometimes I think the only reason I come here anymore is for Testament's posts, and if you can't beat em', join em'.
your reasons for liking the game are stupid. there are lots of games with different ways to kill or not kill people. there are lots of games that make it more fun to be 'good'. Thief and Hitman can be more interesting (and rewarding) if you opt to kill no one. Planescape is, contrary to what Tycho said earlier, easier if you play the good guy, because talking your way through situations doesn't have to result in violence and getting yourself hurt. Planescape also offers much more variety in the results of your choices, too, rather than one or two lines of dialog changing.
I didn't even state my reasons for liking the game and I didn't read anything past the first sentence of your post but ok.
It's not boring to be good any more than it's boring to play Thief. They're similar playing styles: sneak around everywhere, and use nonlethal weapons to take down unsuspecting enemies as you dart from shadow to shadow, quietly. Some people don't like that (I do), but if you don't, you can always play it one of the many, many other ways that Deus Ex can be played.
<!--quoteo(post=1662087:date=Nov 27 2007, 05:11 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Nov 27 2007, 05:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->your reasons for liking the game are stupid. there are lots of games with different ways to kill or not kill people. there are lots of games that make it more fun to be 'good'. Thief and Hitman can be more interesting (and rewarding) if you opt to kill no one. Planescape is, contrary to what Tycho said earlier, easier if you play the good guy, because talking your way through situations doesn't have to result in violence and getting yourself hurt. Planescape also offers much more variety in the results of your choices, too, rather than one or two lines of dialog changing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't even mention Planescape :/ In any case, Planescape is a totally different game in a ton of ways. Thief and Hitman are more interesting and rewarding if you don't kill anyone, sure, but so is Deus Ex (if you like that kind of stuff). Some people like being sneaky and not bloodthirsty, some people don't. It all depends on what you like. The point in Deus Ex is not that you have a lot of ways to kill people, but a lot of ways to approach problems and a lot of ways to play the game. It's not a question of "how do I kill this next group of people." It's a larger question of "how do I approach this base/city/house."
Of course, depending on what you like in a game, this might be secondary to everything. I like the choices in Deus Ex, sure, but what I also like is the amazing writing, the good voice acting, the music, the plot, the environments that I'm free to explore, the awesome dystopian future setting, the conversations, the secrets, etc. Whether I choose to play as a stealthy sneaky dude, or Rambo, or a crazy man running around hitting people with a crowbar, or a methodical sniper, or a dude with a bunch of gadgets who hacks, lockpicks, and jumps his way around obstacles, really isn't the center of the game to me.
Not even I can back you up on that one. Also, as a result of your post I ended up reading Discozombie's, and it was just as stupid as I thought it would be. I blame you for this.
No no no, the moral is if you don't agree with <b>Pulse</b> your opinions are stupid. Didn't you read the thread?
When I said "good voice acting" I guess I was mostly just thinking of JC, Everett, Simons, and the MiB. Everyone else can go back to central casting to await their next turn as "stereotype of the week."
You know who else used bad voice acting?
Hitler
Hitler<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No Hitler was a really good voice actor haven't you heard his speeches
Gotta say my pants are shakin after seeing the teaser and stills.
For this you are my best friend.
NO WE'RE NOT. YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!
...oh wait.
I dunno, I was a stealthy hacker with a rocket launcher....but that worked for me. Your ability to adapt using the path you pick is pretty important in Deus Ex, you do have to live with your actions. <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>For axample when you fail to save whats his names daughter, hes distort the next few times you see him, but if you succeed you get some nice gadgets, that dont really affect the game much if you intentianly got his daughter killed to save ammo.</span>
The way the game was advertised, was more multiple ways to solve a puzzle.
Anyway, as long as its somewhere between Deus Ex and Deus Ex 2 ill be happy.
Anyway, I enjoyed both the first and second part of the series in different ways. Looking forward to the third.
<span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>You're both stupid.</span>
Back on topic though, I don't know why the hell they bother to release teasers at this early stage when they don't really tell us anything about the game other than its going to be titled Deus Ex 3. In fact thats probably wrong as well as the final title will inevitably contain at least five colons. Because its not a <i>real</i> game if it doesn't have a colon somewhere in the title.