bayonet
invader Zim
Join Date: 2007-09-20 Member: 62376Members
<div class="IPBDescription">charge</div>I know this ideas going to come under huge sceptisim for being out of the ns universe and old fashioned, but...
Id like to see the standard assult rifle/lmg come with a bayonnet as an alternative mele to the knife. This would allow squads of rines to charge down those alien scum. It could be the alternate fire for the lmg, and be slower but slightly more powerful than the standard knife.
As well as debating this id like to ask one more broad question, what dont you like about the ns1 guns/weapons, and how would you like to see them changed, in both model and function.
I dont like the HMG model or particually its function in ns1, in ns2 id like to a hmg model, thats belt fed, possibly from an ammo box
Id like to see the standard assult rifle/lmg come with a bayonnet as an alternative mele to the knife. This would allow squads of rines to charge down those alien scum. It could be the alternate fire for the lmg, and be slower but slightly more powerful than the standard knife.
As well as debating this id like to ask one more broad question, what dont you like about the ns1 guns/weapons, and how would you like to see them changed, in both model and function.
I dont like the HMG model or particually its function in ns1, in ns2 id like to a hmg model, thats belt fed, possibly from an ammo box
Comments
why? because the game is balanced around marines owning from distance, aliens owning up close. switching to knife takes time but can safe your life.
if we have everyone running around like master chief, butting and knifing anything in arm's reach and dealing huge damage, then aliens will become pathetically weak.
why? because the game is balanced around marines owning from distance, aliens owning up close. switching to knife takes time but can safe your life.
if we have everyone running around like master chief, butting and knifing anything in arm's reach and dealing huge damage, then aliens will become pathetically weak.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If marines could melee easily, why would it do "huge damage"? If there was a quick melee option it would have to weaker of course. As I said in my previous post it would have to be balanced but is quite doable.
So if its weaker i would try to get the knife instead using a 10dmg skill <.<
So basically you're saying you would prefer a slower, beefier knife strike to a deft, more precise strike. I prefer the latter to the former.
The knife is borderline as it is already.
1. Replacing the knife with a bayonet on the LMG
2. Just adding a bayonet and keeping the knife
If one then vote no as what happens when you get a HMG etc? you have no res tower attack
If two then maybe providing the bayonet had a very low rate of fire and did not do more damage.
As for the secondary fire on the other guns I would like
Shotty : Two rounds (stoak standard i Know but) with a reloading required before you can use it again. e.g. Fade jumps into view and you fire both barrels and then proceed to attack with only the primary barrel. He blinks away and then you start to reload your gun. Holding down the reload key for a normal reload or holding reload and secondary fire to reload the secondary barrel. Down side is that the later takes longer. Time it wrong and the fade blinks back around and nails you while your defensless.
LMG: zoom. Its always bugged me that the Pistol is more accurate than a rifle, this makes no sense. Holding down zoom would allow you to move closer and fire at the same rate as the pistol now.
HMG: Blust fire. Holding down seconardy fire results in controled bursts that are more accurate
GL: See my nades post on different throwing options (http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103216) Reguardless I would like to be able to hit fire halfway through a reload and not lose all nades loaded!
Pistol: Rapid fire close to HMG rate.
I still end up cutting the pie and crouching to improve my shooting because every other game out there now has it. I know NS 1 was built on the HL1 engine so of course it has it's limitations, but I am just saying NS2 really should be oh just a little bit more avanced then that. I know it's not Rouge Spear or HalfLife 2, but since it's using a newer engine I would like to think that burst firing and crouching does add accuracy [obviously at the expense of firing rate and movement].
Same thing as bunny hopping. I realize it's a popular past time of HL 1 and counter strike players, but fellas, fellas, we are past that now. Lets leave 1987 as is, and move on. That's what quake and counter strike are for. I would like to consider Natural Selection an EVOLVED experience....
personally i wouldnt mind seeing the bayonet on the LMG, but marines wouldnt carry around 2 knifes, so you should have to choose one or the other.
maybe have it like this: LMG comes standard with normal fire and alt fire (scoped, slower rate of fire but more accurate), and you have your knife sheathed. using the knife by itself deals less dammage, but is quicker to attack with. if you choose to attach the bayonet to the LMG, you cannot use the knife by itself untill you remove it from the gun, and you also lose the ability to zoom with the scope. the bayonet deals more dammage due to more thrusting power and the fact you are STABBING, not slashing. and of course the bayonet is not as quick as slashing with the knife.
and now that i think of it, seeing as every weapon is sure to have an alt-fire in NS2, why not make the knife stab with alt fire? normal slash would be good for RT's etc, and stab more effective with those pesky lifeforms.
i reckon mines should have an alt-fire detonator, that would come in handy....
seeing as the shottie is a pump action with only one barrel, i dont think it should fire off 2 rounds at once, i'd prefer to use the buttstock.
pistol could have fully automatic as all alt fire, useful in close quarters as a last resort, but would use all your ammo pretty quick. (i'm pretty hesitant about this one, kharaa need the advantage in close combat, but it would make pistol scripting useless)
thats all i can think of at the moment, anyone got some alt-fire ideas for the aliens?
- corpsman
and as a side point u will notice that the ns logo with the marine symbol on it has a gun handle with a knife blade - bayonet <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I'd love mines to have a remote-detonator as ALT-FIRE.
I'd love HMG to have explosive rounds (much smaller clip-size and slower fire-rate, not same as grenades)
I'd love Web to have a "membrane" ALT-FIRE... creating a sticky flexible membrane over an area (3-point contact?) that traps anything it touchs and slows bullets... but has a HP limit
<i>Removed posting ability for a week.</i>
While it doesn't seem to fit in the world for some reason [to me], an ALT fire for the knife is a must! Giving it a slower but more powerfull way to attack would be great. Like a shotgun, you can't just spray the area with endless amounts of ammo but when you do hit something BAM! That would be kinda cool though to see a marine impale a skulk, lerk, or gorgie on the end of his rifle. Gorgie on a stick! BBQ! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i reckon mines should have an alt-fire detonator, that would come in handy....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same as grenades? Maybe those would be deployed super quick, but with less accuracy. The regular grenade toss would be however they do it, but the ALT fire would just be thrown in the general direction your aiming but super fast.
seeing as the shottie is a pump action with only one barrel, i dont think it should fire off 2 rounds at once, i'd prefer to use the buttstock.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->pistol could have fully automatic as all alt fire, useful in close quarters as a last resort, but would use all your ammo pretty quick. (i'm pretty hesitant about this one, kharaa need the advantage in close combat, but it would make pistol scripting useless)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scripting is cheating any way you look at it. I have never used any scripts or cheats and I enjoy the game just fine. If anything it would add balance to the game from those who do use cheats like "pistol scripts" [I am guessing thats the one where you see them shoot off the whole clip in 1/ 1/2 second?].
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->thats all i can think of at the moment, anyone got some alt-fire ideas for the aliens?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ALT fire would seem strange for them since they are not weapons, but "abilities," plus the marnies ALT fire are still using the same distance/range, but the accuracy and rate are changed. So if the aliens had an ALT fire how could the developers change the "weapons" when you are already in the marines faces? Man, that's a tough one. I could see them giving the skulk a super bite, like 3 quick bites in a row followed by a need to recharge your energy, but a LA marine would be toast by then....
Maybe the aliens could have abilities that cost energy. Same as gorges using heal, it lowers the stored "energy" so they must recharge. Well, now they could slowly walk up walls but it would cost energy to stick to those walls. So they have different abilities but they too come at a cost. Or maybe they could be able to do things faster, no matter what it is. The ALT fire for aliens would be doing things at a 1 1/2X to 2X speed, but at the cost of a very quick energy depletion. Fades wouldn't be required to do it with the swipe and run, they are already fast enough, as are the skulks with leaping and running, but gorges could quickly get away from walking marines but would have 0 energy to build or heal or do anything else, onyl to run away faster. Lerks could fly faster but would have 0 energy to spike, gas, or umbra. That's kind of a tough one, because they already have so many abilities, maybe it would be a good idea to change them all somehow?
/me decides it's best left alone.<!--quoteo(post=1662177:date=Nov 28 2007, 05:16 PM:name=corpsman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(corpsman @ Nov 28 2007, 05:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662177"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe the aliens could have abilities that cost energy. Same as gorges using heal, it lowers the stored "energy" so they must recharge. Well, now they could slowly walk up walls but it would cost energy to stick to those walls. So they have different abilities but they too come at a cost. Or maybe they could be able to do things faster, no matter what it is. The ALT fire for aliens would be doing things at a 1 1/2X to 2X speed, but at the cost of a very quick energy depletion. Fades wouldn't be required to do it with the swipe and run, they are already fast enough, as are the skulks with leaping and running, but gorges could quickly get away from walking marines but would have 0 energy to build or heal or do anything else, onos to run away faster. Lerks could fly faster but would have 0 energy to spike, gas, or umbra. That's kind of a tough one, because they already have so many abilities, maybe it would be a good idea to change them all somehow?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really think this is the solution to the kharaa alternate fire mystery. Alternate fire has the potential to do some really neat things, essentially opening a whole new range of abilities. "the same, but faster, and more costly" isn't really that interesting.
Edit: The reason it's more appropriate for the marines is they all ready use conventional weaponry. The uniqueness of the two sides prevents this idea from carrying over well. I would like to see different alt fires on the marine side as well but a knife fitted to an lmg or just the access to a quick strike with certain weapons is reasonable IMO.
Why dont you add as alt fire 2 Steel Ball Pellets (fired with one shot) which do 10%dmg to HP and 90% dmg to Armor so you can take Onos and Fades down faster... IMHO not that it would take them down but they would have to "run". To be balanced you could only have 3 of the secondary ammo... so 8/40 primary and 1/3 secondary...
As the bayonet.... I like the idea of larger dmg but only if the bayo would have swing time... For example... 1sec swinging, strike, then 1 sec swing back... but fkorz since this would be too slow you should balance that time faster.
But when you look at this from "future FOV (field of view)". Swordguns would not exist... There is more chance for a guy to have chainsaw or ###### sword on his back then bayonet on gun...
Why dont you add as alt fire 2 Steel Ball Pellets (fired with one shot) which do 10%dmg to HP and 90% dmg to Armor so you can take Onos and Fades down faster... IMHO not that it would take them down but they would have to "run". To be balanced you could only have 3 of the secondary ammo... so 8/40 primary and 1/3 secondary...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
90% armor, in one shot, and you think it's justified by having just a FEW of them? Kharaa armor is like as health, but every point of armor acts as 2(iirc) points of health. So loosing 100 armor is like loosing 200 hp. Now lets take the onos as example, 750-something armor, delete 90%, around 50 left, so thats 700 x 2, 1400 health deleted at the snap of a finger. Then the rest of the squad shoots normally and the onos is reduced from a frail space cow to a bucket of pus.
thats a good way of looking at it. at the moment real-life shotguns have at least 2 different types of ammo, your normal buck shot full of pellets (good for birds, rabbits, possums etc), and solid slugs that are basicially one big bullet (good for bears, elephants, oprah winfrey etc).
this could be an alt fire option for ns2, but the problem is when you fire a shot and the gun is pumped, and the next shell is automaticially put into the chamber, you dont select which type. also the shotgun would need 2 seperate clip areas for the different ammo types.
so basicially we would have to use the weak excuse of nanites changing the bullets in the chamber, or radicially change the design of the shottie we all know and love.
either way i'd love to see solid slugs in ns2
What I ment was that dmg ratio would go more for armor and less for HP.. so for example those bullets do each 100dmg. 90dmg to armor, 10 dmg to HP, together 180 to armor, 20 to hp
And no... no nanites...
You could "remake" shotgun texture to look as 2barrel but not 1 beneath the other but 1 next to other (like 2barrels today... hunting ones).
How can I explain... Everybody knows M16 and M203 GL modifcation. So... you get extra trigger for M203... sort of it would be added with the 2nd barrel, but IMHO the look of 2barrel shootie in NS would suck <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
alt fire for aliens should be more than just the same attack with different balanced variables on speed, energy drain and damage. Having said that the skulks bite secondry attack could be less effective against rines and more effective against buildings. Or maybe the skulk could use its secondry bite to latch on to rines, so it bites em and stays stuck to em, they cant shoot and they loose health over a slow constant, but it would be easy fro other players to shoot em off. To prevent this being the ultimate attack to solo rines, this latch on bite would only last a preset number of secs before the skulk would fall off, and if the rine was initailly near full health he would survive. The other thing this latch on bite could be used for is latching on to other alien players. It wouldnt hurt them but it would me u could hitch a ride. Four skulks could latch on to a fade. The fade could fade in to a rine base and the skulks could detach and attack. this would be a risky strategy cos one well placed nade could take em all out
That's almost how it works already in NS <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> As you probably know, armor often, or always, is entirely lost before you loose all health and die. This is because all attacks already damage around 80% armor and 10-20% health. Adding your suggestion would make little difference.
Thx for clearing that out for me.
Then look at it like this. Today you have solid slugs just for armor PENETRATION <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />. In case you did not know special police forces (like for example SWAT) do use solid slugs for ppl with kevlar jackets or other sort of body armor (it they do not use FMJ bullets). So how it would be to get that armor penetration thing and make it do 50-50 dmg or 60-40 (50ar, 50 hp or 60 ar, 40 hp)... fkorz i'm talking bout percentage.
As I said... it should be balanced <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
And.... as of aliens "the same but with different attack rate, dmg and power consumption rate" i would say no... I think there was a topic bout it and ppl said it would be nice and it would suck. There should be more to it.
There is a ton of stuff the marines aren't using, the story / atmosphere side of me wonders why it is the case, and the gameplay side of me wishes it were possible without wrecking the fun of playing the Kharaa - which is a balancing issue, yes? A tweaking of cost and damage type variables and limitations on uses, like carry limits: so not insurmountable.
On the Kharaa side, I would hope for even a plethora more of biological weapons, ripped straight from studies of terran creatures: aquatic, flying, insect, and plants - even bacteria, viruses, and fungii. There is a ton of stuff the Kharaa isn't using either and I wonder why...
Attaching our current blade as a bayonet is most definitely plausible and within the realm of balance if treated with due diligence.
the original GL had a clip, but then they remade the model to have the current barrel thingy. i think it was due to balancing issues, the clip was obviously much faster to reload, and resulted in heaps more nade spamming. on the up side, you can now shoot a nade, then reload just that single nade, which is quicker than the time to replace the old clip.
personally i love the reload animation on the new one, i just wish the bloody thing would reload slightly quicker....