Dynamic Objectives
locallyunscene
Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Something for the new players</div>When you join the kharaa side the first few times it's really difficult to figure out what to do. A simple objective list would help a lot for new players.
Static objectives would be:
Build Resource Towers
Build 3 ability chambers
build second hive
build 3 new ability chambers
build third hive
build 3 new ability chambers
Kill Marines: <Current count>
Kill Marine rts: <Current count>
Kill Marine structures: <Current count>
Dynamic objectives would be a little different and only appear when applicable.
Kill parasited/detected marines in/near <hive>
Defend rt at <location(s)>
Spread DI to rooms<locations>
It wouldn't solve all problems but I think it would make the game a little more intuitive for new players.
Static objectives would be:
Build Resource Towers
Build 3 ability chambers
build second hive
build 3 new ability chambers
build third hive
build 3 new ability chambers
Kill Marines: <Current count>
Kill Marine rts: <Current count>
Kill Marine structures: <Current count>
Dynamic objectives would be a little different and only appear when applicable.
Kill parasited/detected marines in/near <hive>
Defend rt at <location(s)>
Spread DI to rooms<locations>
It wouldn't solve all problems but I think it would make the game a little more intuitive for new players.
Comments
but i still think having a solid single player tutorial would be more suitable.
but i still think having a solid single player tutorial would be more suitable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I turned off sown hints everytime I have to reinstall the game, but it never works. I think maybe they just put the potion button there to mess with us... *cough*
The objectives sound about right, for gorges I mean.
there's some command you can type into the console that gets rid of hints for good, but i forget what it is.
its something like cl_showhints 0, or cl_autohelp 0
anyone know the actual command?
the thing tha gets me though is some of hte CL_ commands arnt just on/off switches some have like 4 choices, why not have autohelp off/on/dynamic.
yeah the the cheack box in the menu has never eworked this is acctuly something for the bug forum.
similar to the developers comentary, but only as far as a tiny menu, but instead of haveing hte map lined with speech bubbles as such they would be radio commands to the trainy grunt of hte team, and would be bubbles per side only visable to said side.
run down. go into multiplayer tut. select a box or two
say veil is the first map your on when you join a server, the veil tutorial bubbles might all be about res controlso as you run over the first bubble a comanders voice kicks in " right soilder move to your way point we need that res node up now, if ones already there build it if not hold that area until its so. if he rocks up there he might have to shoot a fake hologram skulk and build afake res node, depending he may end up doing both or he may have to deal with a hologram skulk while building, he may have to build a real res node if his coms on the ball or deal witha real skulk, but depending on what order things come in or happen depends on the next speeech bubble. at which point it would unlock for him and give him some more information about tipping hte scales of rez and how its some important to the course, that the more you tip it the harder it is for the enamy to come back at which point your a accumulative snow ball.. ARE YOU LISTENING SOILDER" good now go to this res node and take it out, along the way a little cabbinen opens up and a shot gun there with enough ammo to drop the holo res node or real res node if the kharaa have droped one.
I guess to stop exsploits at this point so everyone doesnt check the comentary all the time, you have a limit of doing each map three times, and also if you do kill say a skulk or gorge with that tutorial comentary shotgun that creature doesnt die fer say he just instantly reses at hive back in his life form with out loseing res. and vice verser, also the comentary shot gun couldnt get ammo or be reloaded, in which case thers a few good bubbles there for swaping weapons and reloading and or takeing out res with buddies guarding.
the next node could be information about takeing out nodes with kharaa guarding then takeing out nodes with defences like OC's and or gorges,
obiously the final bubble ontakeing out nodes would unlock and would be about the importance of the hive res node and ways it can be taken down to stop then enamy from getting that last one or two res for a onos that could swing the tide of the battle
and could be about seigeing or Gling.
obiously some bubbles would over lap from map to map in certain situations, lie you migth get a GL bubble for takeing out defences at a res node, but on the weapons tutorial you may get the same bubble when its time to use the GL, the commanders voice over would be rather open ended like one bubble would flow in pick up hte GL out of hte ammo cache the gl "yada yada" it is known for its ability to bounce projectiles around courners and do a area of effect type of exsplosive damage "yada yada"
its open ended enough that the player in both situations be it learning to take out a fortifyed res node or to lern how touse the GL in hte weapons useage tutorial map.
obiously on servers with defualt stock maps and map rotation it would all make sence of what order to look at them in, also in the tutorial comentary menu you would see the map lists in order, only 6 maps might have tutorials on them, and those 6 maps might be direct ports of the classics, but clicking on a step in the tutorial menu would most likely connect you to a server with people playing that isnt full and is playing that map. I guess that leave you room to be marines and kharaa on each map once and leaves room to play that map again.
hum prolly a bit long winded but still.
a multi player in game tutorial in a live action enviroment, yes holo skulks would look really crappy like a old rolling static TV in sepia, and would disapear with one bullet touching them.
most likely more work that a tutorial map out right, BUT i think it would certainly be ground breaking.
ALSO if we do get a tutorial map, as a request obiously the marines will do theirs in the TSA boot camp but can the kharaa do theirs on kharaa home world or of a location that is just ALL serious HIVE central. The final further few tests in the kharaa tut will be a little shuttle of marines has crash landed and basicly to take out the obst so they cant get more people down things like that.
it would add some more lore to it.
Again, awesome post NEX9, and I agree that would be a good way to handle things and keep it atmospheric. I am going to assume the Kharaa would have something similar.
And to the OP: locallyunscene, objectives might be useful for new players, but they would need to be be highly dynamic. The objectives you propose, as someone pointed out, are great for a gorge, but it would be unfair to force a player go gorge - NS2 is about adaptation and the team might have too many gorges. It might be useful to have a set of unique objectives for every class (skulk: kill x/parasite y, gorge: heal z/build g, ... onos: devour t etc...) For completing all objectives for one class you get CAKE - or egg, whichever tastes better! This would allow to have a distinct role on the team like very frequently in the game. Though, again, NS is all about adapting to situation so even that might be counter to the game's philosophy.
I think a tracking system similar to Team Fortress 2 but with original values might be very useful in NS2. (On side note, the time spent on every class alone is worth gold, reminding me how much time i waste on that game!) It would help NS players identify their own play style as well as strengths and weaknesses. Also it might attract younger players to improve their stats. Going even further, it might be useful to vote for a Player of the Match, at the end of round and have these be recorded to stimulate team play.
I sure hope the developers are reading these boards and take in some inspiration.
<!--quoteo(post=1662283:date=Nov 29 2007, 03:01 PM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Nov 29 2007, 03:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662283"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It might be useful to have a set of unique objectives for every class (skulk: kill x/parasite y, gorge: heal z/build g, ... onos: devour t etc...) For completing all objectives for one class you get CAKE - or egg, whichever tastes better! This would allow to have a distinct role on the team like very frequently in the game. Though, again, NS is all about adapting to situation so even that might be counter to the game's philosophy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I tried to phrase the personal tally of marines/marine structures in a team way. Number of parasite kills would be an achievement, not really an objective. It may sound like semantics to you but I think it's a really important distinction in teamplay. Although I think there may be room for lifeform objectives like you suggest. Things like number of marines stomped/webbed, teammates umbra'd, etc.
I was suggesting this because I thought it might be an alternative to creating a tutorial. The devs have said they don't think they'll have the resources to create a single player mode, although they haven't confirmed or denied a tutorial. I would love to see a tutorial because I think it could teach much more, but in terms of overall time and money I think this would be cheaper to implement since you don't need a separate map(art assets), script(writer, possible voice actor(s), and coding required for a tutorial map.
but for first time beginners, they would still need a basic single player tutorial, just so they understand the basics of the game (how res works, how to select lifeforms, how to build structures and drop guns etc). if they have to learn all that basic stuff in a multiplayer server, they would most likely recieve some form of abuse, resulting in a negative first impression - and we all know first impressions last.
Also, don't count out a written game guide that should accompany the game. Best learning comes from doing (like dynamic objectives), but reading about resource model and such could go a long way to prepare new players.
obiously on some occations the mouse will go were you want, but other times it wont and it can be rather frustrating. as everyone walks freely into said chosen class on what a could easly be were 70 man servers or some such then suddenly when there 10 people controling each life form and so on you would see what, how and when other peoples and your desisions are the correct ones, how accuratly you effectively do them and so on. In which case ones mans choices running against the grain wouldn't hinder it one bit, but in most cases a single mans correct movment with the grain will achive so much more and will instill great mob mentality training... the scaryest part about this ###### is, where else can this be applied in trainning and learning feilds.
and how effective is it does it already exsist.
4 people control a marine, they all want to move the mouse in 4 seperate directions, north east south west.
Suddenly some one wants to move into a different direction, while 3 others decided not to move, now 2 people are forceing the marine to move into a different direction, say he picks the diagonal hes sideing with two other choices, the marine moves diagonaly, in turn nearing a edge of a cliff, this results in all 4 players instantly apon reaction a single exsact choice steered by multiple minds, and even if one person is suicidal the other threes exsact reaction will evently teach or show the stubborn or crazy person that they should jump on the band wagon for its obiously the right choice.
suddenly your learning curve becomes interesting interactive, and not only that you now have a new way to promote team work and futher game play and stratagys
also this would make a great mini game... i want my MMO bat and ball game.
It would be nice if we could bring back the NSGuide program only larger. Maybe this could be a use of the E-Team?
obiously on some occations the mouse will go were you want, but other times it wont and it can be rather frustrating. as everyone walks freely into said chosen class on what a could easly be were 70 man servers or some such then suddenly when there 10 people controling each life form and so on you would see what, how and when other peoples and your desisions are the correct ones, how accuratly you effectively do them and so on. In which case ones mans choices running against the grain wouldn't hinder it one bit, but in most cases a single mans correct movment with the grain will achive so much more and will instill great mob mentality training... the scaryest part about this ###### is, where else can this be applied in trainning and learning feilds.
and how effective is it does it already exsist.
4 people control a marine, they all want to move the mouse in 4 seperate directions, north east south west.
Suddenly some one wants to move into a different direction, while 3 others decided not to move, now 2 people are forceing the marine to move into a different direction, say he picks the diagonal hes sideing with two other choices, the marine moves diagonaly, in turn nearing a edge of a cliff, this results in all 4 players instantly apon reaction a single exsact choice steered by multiple minds, and even if one person is suicidal the other threes exsact reaction will evently teach or show the stubborn or crazy person that they should jump on the band wagon for its obiously the right choice.
suddenly your learning curve becomes interesting interactive, and not only that you now have a new way to promote team work and futher game play and stratagys
also this would make a great mini game... i want my MMO bat and ball game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha ha! Your creativity blows my mind, NEX9! If you have friends over, here's something you HAVE TO try:
1) Play any FPS with one player controlling the keyboard and another controlling the mouse.
- I've done this before and it's hilarious!
- This should also give you an idea of how your suggestion might work
but with the one mind marine every action would be weighted on by every marines desition following a majority rules kind of ordeal there is a theroy there somewere.