Dynamic Spawn Points

Radix · November 2007

<div class="IPBDescription">Primarily Regarding Gorge Gameplay</div>Is this feasible in Source? DI gets propagated by whatever algorithm you choose, then once it sets up and "hardens" or whatever the rule would end up being, a gorge can place (for maybe a res cost?) a spawn point where x percentage of the team will spawn (using statistics, every xth skulk spawns here, etc.)

I believe this concept is flavorfully different enough from phase gates to where it wouldn't overhomogenize gameplay too badly. It would solve or greatly improve the problem of spawncamping in hives, as well as increase the need for situational awareness (speaking tactically, not strategically) among the marines, thereby possibly creating more natural incentive for marines to stick together.

Thoughts?

SgtHydra · November 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Nov 29 2007, 06:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662325"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Is this feasible in Source? DI gets propagated by whatever algorithm you choose, then once it sets up and "hardens" or whatever the rule would end up being, a gorge can place (for maybe a res cost?) a spawn point where x percentage of the team will spawn (using statistics, every xth skulk spawns here, etc.)

I believe this concept is flavorfully different enough from phase gates to where it wouldn't overhomogenize gameplay too badly. It would solve or greatly improve the problem of spawncamping in hives, as well as increase the need for situational awareness (speaking tactically, not strategically) among the marines, thereby possibly creating more natural incentive for marines to stick together.

Thoughts?</div>

Hmm... sounds like something I suggested...

Oh well... I might be a noob, but I think we are all a little old to want to be credited for every little concept. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

<strike>I think it should only be able to be placed in certian rooms, or rooms which are reasonably large. I mean, a vent is no place for a spawn point.

The structure should be a mini-hive of sorts. A kind of rally point for the aliens. It has to be placed like a hive, though. We all know what happens if the spawn structure is poorly placed...so let them just...</strike> EUREKA!

Idea: RTs could have a spawn point basically built "on top of them." Its kinda like upgrading the RT. Makes more durable and a spawn point. Plus, reasourve locations are spread out anyway, so it could remain balanced.

Dynamic spawning should be alien only. Makes em more uniqueier <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

Radix · November 2007

Flayra, make sure to pay the man his royalties when you hit release.

locallyunscene · November 2007

This is a bit like the earlier ideas of spawn chambers and gorges being able to lay spawn eggs. The difference between those and this is this idea is less abusable/random(assuming map makers choose the spots).

Buzzou · November 2007

soooo.... i'm a gorge, i get some DI happening far away from the hive around a remote res point as mentioned earlier, and build the spawn point on top. marines come along a bit later, see the spawn point, and instead of killing it and the RT, they just sit around and shoot any lifeform that pops out of it. same thing might even happen on the other side of the map.

so unlike spawncamping in a hive where at least other players can use MC's or the other hive to teleport in and help you out (plus you get healed a bit by the hive), any aliens that spawn in the hive have to run all the way over to the spawn point, and try to free it. in the meantime X% of the alien team is effectively out of commission.

i vote <span style="color:#FF0000">NO</span>

SgtHydra · November 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ Nov 29 2007, 08:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662338"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>soooo.... i'm a gorge, i get some DI happening far away from the hive around a remote res point as mentioned earlier, and build the spawn point on top. marines come along a bit later, see the spawn point, and instead of killing it and the RT, they just sit around and shoot any lifeform that pops out of it. same thing might even happen on the other side of the map.

so unlike spawncamping in a hive where at least other players can use MC's or the other hive to teleport in and help you out (plus you get healed a bit by the hive), any aliens that spawn in the hive have to run all the way over to the spawn point, and try to free it. in the meantime X% of the alien team is effectively out of commission.

i vote <span style="color:#FF0000">NO</span></div>

Flaw in your critisism: I recomended that the aliens get to choose their spawn point.

I play Enemy Territory: Quake Wars and in that game you get to choose your spawn point. I like the concept and it works for the alien's overall theme of doing things on the fly.

In NS1, I seem to remember a favorite strategy of the alien bots when they play against marines... something about... waiting until another guy pops out... and then killing him...

And anyway, spawn camping is just apart of the game.

Its like getting sniped in CS. Don't get mad. Get even.

schkorpio · November 2007

as long as players can choose where they want to spawn then, sure why not

Buzzou · November 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SgtHydra @ Nov 30 2007, 04:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662341"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Flaw in your critisism: I recomended that the aliens get to choose their spawn point.</div>
sorry i guess i overlooked that point, but that really wouldnt change things much in relation to this idea and spawn camping. you would still spawn there and die before you realized and changed spawn points, as would many other team mates until they all catch on.

i guess selecting your spawn point could reduce spawn camping (providing theres more than 1 spawn point and they are spread out) but the downside is if you had to select where you wanted to spawn each time, this could delay your spawn time, reducing the time spent in-game. i'm basing this on my experience playing Eternal Silence, it got frustrating after a while having to always choose where you want to go, i'd prefer to just be plopped on the battlefield and work it out from there. but i guess if they had an option to toggle this it could be beneficial,and make everyone happy....

i know it sounds like i'm contradicting myself and/or whinging for the sake of whinging, i'm just trying to point out any flaws in your idea, so they can be addressed and therefore strengthen your proposal....

SgtHydra · November 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ Nov 29 2007, 10:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662356"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>sorry i guess i overlooked that point, but that really wouldnt change things much in relation to this idea and spawn camping. you would still spawn there and die before you realized and changed spawn points, as would many other team mates until they all catch on.

i guess selecting your spawn point could reduce spawn camping (providing theres more than 1 spawn point and they are spread out) but the downside is if you had to select where you wanted to spawn each time, this could delay your spawn time, reducing the time spent in-game. i'm basing this on my experience playing Eternal Silence, it got frustrating after a while having to always choose where you want to go, i'd prefer to just be plopped on the battlefield and work it out from there. but i guess if they had an option to toggle this it could be beneficial,and make everyone happy....

i know it sounds like i'm contradicting myself and/or whinging for the sake of whinging, i'm just trying to point out any flaws in your idea, so they can be addressed and therefore strengthen your proposal....</div>

Oh darn... I'm really bad at explaining this... (noob and all)

Its like this:

<img src="http://www.gamearena.com.au/gameres/1518/images/160/Ark-Topology.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

(hope map works)

Works well enough.

Anyway, imagine each yellow dot as a spawn point (they aren't sp's on that map in game, but oh well)

When you first join a game, you pick a team and spawn in at your base. After that initial spawn, you can choose a new spawn point from a map screen. You will keep spawning at that point until it is no longer under your team's control or you choose a new one. Spawn camping could be reduced since once everyone knows that you are camping a spawn, they'lll just spawn somewhere close by and kick your little marine tail.

Spawn points shouldn't be forced on people. Choice = GOOD.

Buzzou · November 2007

i understand what you are trying to say, and i think it would be beneficial to the vast majority of players out there, mainly new players. it just doesn't work for my particular style of gameplay, thats all. if you can toggle this option on or off, we all win. but i guess it all depends on how its implemented, and as i said, i'm drawing my conclusions on another game.

for example - at the start of the game, you can only choose to spawn from the hive. later you get 2 hives, and you can choose between the 2. if people create more spawn points, you get more options. every time you are waiting to spawn, a little map pops up indicating the new spawn points, <u>and spawn points that are currently under attack.</u> you make the choice, and spawn with a big grin on your face, and knowledge of what you need to do when you spawn. i think on this part we are in agreement, it would be very good.

now i guess the thing i need to make clear is this - do you not spawn until you select your next spawn point (like in Eternal Silence), - or does the map pop up for a brief time (however long until the next spawn time) and if you havent made your selection, you will be spawned at the last spawn point that you selected.

heres the problems with both:

option 1: (the one i hate) you cant spawn until you select a new spawn point, take a bit too long making your selection, eventually spawn but have spent 20secs in limbo in the spawn queue.

option 2:you will spawn when the next slot is available. the map pops up, but the next spawn is in 1.3sec, you dont have enough time to select a different spawn point from the one being camped, you spawn, you die. you then have a bit of time to select a new spawn point, but have eventually wasted 20sec in the queue.

obviously i dont like being spawn camped like anyone else, but ultimately i just hate the spawn queue delay, not the uncouth ruffian waiting at the other end with a shotgun. for me its more annoying if i've personally caused myself to stay in the queue 5-10sec longer, rather than Mr spawncamper forcefully putting be back in there, thats why i hate option #1.

i'd love it if option 2 came out, if i have time to make a change quickly before i spawn then i'm better off, if not, then i guess i die and i'm in the same position anyways. also there's been several times that i've spawned with 3 marines around me, and i manage to kill one. i dont kill em all , but at least i get one, and it gives me immense satisfaction. under these circumstances of option 2, at least i kill 1 of them, then have ample time to select another spawn point, then go and try to get the rest.

basicially what i'm saying is - when that little map pops up with all of the possible spawn points, have a little check-box in the corner that says wether you wont spawn until you select a spawn point (EVERY TIME, EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT BEING SPAWN CAMPED), or you will just spawn when the next slot is available, and you have to quickly pick a spot before that happens.

hope that makes sense...

SgtHydra · November 2007

On Above ^^

I agree with what you are saying. The spawn selection itself shouldn't be forced on players at all.

I'd hate it if I was shown a map every time. It should just be a little map button that ya press in order to select a new sp if ya wanted too.

I think we are in agreement, so I'll stop there...

Dynamic Spawn Points

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