Patching (Frontiersman Ability)
Tiletron
Join Date: 2004-08-27 Member: 30955Members
Join Date: 2004-08-27 Member: 30955Members
It's been years since I was on the forums so I thought I'd break the ice a little.
Have you thought about a way Frontiersmen can repair parts of a level that have been cleared of infestation... I know this may sound a little strange so I'll try to explain. According to the technology-brief, when the Kharaa infest an area it changes the fabric of the level's geometry be deforming it. This means the Kharaa have an advantage to prevent Frontiersman from building Phase Gates to keep them out or turrets to efficiently guard those areas, as the terrain is uneven.
What if the <b>Welder</b> equipment had a special ability after a certain rank; designed to "patch" the geometry in areas so that Frontiersman could build defense structures more easily and the Kharaa would need to infest the area again?
Have you thought about a way Frontiersmen can repair parts of a level that have been cleared of infestation... I know this may sound a little strange so I'll try to explain. According to the technology-brief, when the Kharaa infest an area it changes the fabric of the level's geometry be deforming it. This means the Kharaa have an advantage to prevent Frontiersman from building Phase Gates to keep them out or turrets to efficiently guard those areas, as the terrain is uneven.
What if the <b>Welder</b> equipment had a special ability after a certain rank; designed to "patch" the geometry in areas so that Frontiersman could build defense structures more easily and the Kharaa would need to infest the area again?
Comments
All I'm saying is that for every advantage there should be some disadvantage or balance to counteract it.
I'm proposing a flame thrower weapon; what it's good against alien-wise can be debated, I'm mentioning it for the part of base destroying, and burning infestation away. I'm sure I don't need to say anything else to describe that? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Similarly, the welder should be able to perform the same effect (scorching, and killing the infestation) but at a MUCH slower rate, and 'damage' is focused on the area being looked at; rather than spreading quickly to other parts (like fire would).
Have you thought about a way Frontiersmen can repair parts of a level that have been cleared of infestation... I know this may sound a little strange so I'll try to explain. According to the technology-brief, when the Kharaa infest an area it changes the fabric of the level's geometry be deforming it. This means the Kharaa have an advantage to prevent Frontiersman from building Phase Gates to keep them out or turrets to efficiently guard those areas, as the terrain is uneven.
What if the <b>Welder</b> equipment had a special ability after a certain rank; designed to "patch" the geometry in areas so that Frontiersman could build defense structures more easily and the Kharaa would need to infest the area again?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DI and welding AFAIK has the following characteristics:
1.) DI is supposed to change the environment in some meaningful way(we don't know what yet)
2.) Marines will probably be able to weld open/weld close doors on that map(this may be tied to DI)
3.) Alien tunnels will be able to be built on DI
4.) There will probably be an alien commander that builds the tunnels and spreads DI
5.) It is assumed that the flamethrower will be used to remove DI
1.) DI is supposed to change the environment in some meaningful way(we don't know what yet)
2.) Marines will probably be able to weld open/weld close doors on that map(this may be tied to DI)
3.) Alien tunnels will be able to be built on DI
4.) There will probably be an alien commander that builds the tunnels and spreads DI
5.) It is assumed that the flamethrower will be used to remove DI<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We know all of that already, thre's no need to repeat it every damn thread that suggests something to compliment it. I'm just stating an idea as an ALTERNATIVE to welding every door. Or at the very least, an ability which prevents an infestation encroaching on an area by an access-point again without Kharaa having to destroy the patched material first.
like a sock <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
So, I actually think that Tiletron is on to something. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I just wanted to let my mind ponder this one for a while.
Here is what I think he is on to, even though he may not realize it:
Do we know infestation covers half a map at the start of a game? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Personally, I have been assuming it is sorta like NS1, most of the map is actually uncovered and still under the control of nanites and by that under the control of the Commander who controls the nanites.
What kind of advantage could we offer a Kharaa team when a map starts out mostly in the control of nanites?
This is it. Sure, you gotta clear that pesky infestation with flamers, but what, then we just assume the nanites are automatically there and the lights pop back on? Or have any of you thought that welders spray nanites along with some energy, or how does it repair armor?
This would make things very interesting for sure, the marines may start with an advantage, but whenever the Kharaa get the DI spread further, its going to take the marines a team effort to get it back in their control. Cover the flames, then cover the welders spraying nanites.
On top of that, this idea also implies that a Commander is very limited in their abilities to support a team mate over the Infestation, where the Kharaa have either denied or even out right control that area now.
What do you guys think? I would love that dynamic game play.
er no I actually thought of the idea of a surface the Frontiersman could still build on, but the Kharaa could not unless they regained control over the area by destroying it. As a trade-off I suppose you could make infestations react the same way; so humans couldn't place turrets on an infested section of the map.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Tiletron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tiletron)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->er no I actually thought of the idea of a surface the Frontiersman could still build on, but the Kharaa could not unless they regained control over the area by destroying it. As a trade-off I suppose you could make infestations react the same way; so humans couldn't place turrets on an infested section of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems pretty clear to me your original suggestion is "Kharaa have an advantage to prevent Frontiersman from building". Also if you read my second post again, which you quoted, <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Basically you want to make an area un-buildable by marines after the infestation has been removed until they smooth it with welders. Also these smoothed areas will be resistant to DI without player support.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I included both possibilities of kharaa having difficulty building on patched territory unless the patches are destroyed, and marines being prevented from building on recently infested territory until they patch it. I'm asking you what, if your suggestion was included, we could do to make the second hive siege-able since clearing infestation, patching the area, and finally dropping and building the buildings would take a long time.
Who is to say it will take a "long" time? I would just suggest it take more time than it would for the Kharaa to infest the area when it is not under contest.
Values such as the duration of time for the Kharaa to infest an area and the marines to flame and resupply nanites are things that can be tweaked for game play balance and fun.
Here is how I picture it:
Start of match - Kharaa control 10% of map, Marines 90%
DI spreads, taking over previously Nanite (and by extention Commander) controlled areas.
End of match - One or the other has cleared the other's control, either by spread of DI or DI being completely torched. Other options would still be last hive toast and last command chair toast.
Values such as the duration of time for the Kharaa to infest an area and the marines to flame and resupply nanites are things that can be tweaked for game play balance and fun.
Here is how I picture it:
Start of match - Kharaa control 10% of map, Marines 90%
DI spreads, taking over previously Nanite (and by extention Commander) controlled areas.
End of match - One or the other has cleared the other's control, either by spread of DI or DI being completely torched. Other options would still be last hive toast and last command chair toast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I base a long time on the fact that you only have to do one thing now, build, where this would require three things. You'll either need one marine engaged in the three tasks for a longer amount of time or have more marines occupied while trying to set up base. The second hive siege is one of those things that is a critical make or break thing in a lot of games. No matter how you divvy it up, more time overall will be spent preparing for a siege.
And honestly, I am not sure how that is a bad thing. Sure setting up takes longer, but hey, that is the advantage the Kharaa got by choosing this or that area to infest. Would that be so bad?
For the game to be balanced, things need to be pro & con, + & -, paper rock scissors, attack & counter attack, etc. I am sure you already know that Local (love the avatar, makes me think of Zero Punctuation), just laying it out there for others to know what we are going on about.
So, I see it like sure, the marines got bad as siege weapons, but the Kharaa can slow a siege set up just a bit. Once that siege goes up though, those Kharaa are screwed.
Also, just trying to promote a bit of asymetrical game play in this, the possibility that sure, while the Marines map wicked early map control, the Kharaa once they do take an area its just that much extra effort to get it back into Marine control. I see this meaning Marine's would want to do everything they can to halt the spread of the DI, and Kharaa would take down the Marine's defenses to spread the DI.
Depending on just what the DI does - I really hope it means Commander support denial and a spookier atmosphere for the marines among other things to use in attack & counter attack by both sides - it really changes just how good this idea of "Patching" the nanites is.
If DI is nothing more than just a "visual", then the patching idea is irrelevant, yes? But if it is more than that, this could be one of the advantages of having an area infect, for the Kharaa, which I see the Marines countering with flame and spreading nanites.
Also, if areas were flamed to clear DI, I would think the nanites would automaticly attempt to spread back into that area to follow their programing, I think of patching like just speeding up the process that is already happening. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I'm not saying they wouldn't own some territory outside their hive, I agree the line has to be drawn somewhere to give them breathing room.
NS in some gameplay areas is a lot like the gameplay of StarCraft in many ways. The infestation alone, for example, is much like the Creep. For a Zerg Hive in this case the Creep actually regenerates more often than dies out. This is because the hive itself is like a control node; a region of terrain that controls the spread of the infestation to a certain number of metres, unless allied structures are present at the edges to expand it. The marines of SC are the same as the marines in NS - they can build structures almost anywhere except on the Creep, and some areas are natually impossible to infest or place human structures on because of the shape or design.
Anyway, I think it really comes down to the question of how much hassle is required to make it work. When I come to think about it, if its too much there's no reason it can't be put in as an expansion after the initial release.