Marine.... and different other classes

Kashio

I'm going to start a discussion....



I'm not sure how would you like to do this:

spawn as..

or build suit..


i don't know..

but my thought was, it would be much more interesting if there's other classes, or roles (whatever you want to call em) other then marines'

such as....

(give comment suggestions please <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

Buzzou

<!--quoteo(post=1666583:date=Jan 7 2008, 05:50 AM:name=Kashio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kashio @ Jan 7 2008, 05:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666583"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->or build suit..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they are'nt going to include "classes" like TF2 or DoD into NS2. you have a commander that determines what you can and cant have. sure with the new resource system the devs are discussing may change this a bit, but the fact remains that you will start the game as a 'vanilla' marine, and obtain guns and equipment later on. so "building a suit" as you suggest is the closest you'll get to selecting a "class".

this is also one of the great features of NS - the ability to change weapons and equipment ingame as the gameplay progresses, without having to respawn as a different class. it makes the marines more versatile.

the only suggestion i have is maybe give the marines the ability to drop their current suit (HA or JP, and any new ones that could be in NS2), the same way you can drop a SG to pick up a HMG. it would add to this versatility, and make it so you could completely change your "class" ingame.....

CanadianWolverine

I like the idea of the use of armor to determine the class role. There are different play styles that could be catered to this way.

Buzzou also comes up with a very good idea, of being able to take off the armor. May I make a suggestion? What if instead of dropping equipment, one could recycle it at the armory and use that to buy new equipment at a discount or even of equal or lesser value?

vulpesvelox

What if the commander had a graph with a slider on it, and he could control the percentage of Assault or Defense class marines. When faced with a strong onslaught, he could slide it to the defense end of the spectrum, for more HA type players to respawn. In times of weakened opposition could throw it on assault for more JP or whatnot. Wise commanders of strong teams could leave it in the middle for the marines to utilize fire and maneuver? Maybe start off with only being able to go all assault/defense, more res, the more available ratios and more upgrades for each side of that chart.

schkorpio

<!--quoteo(post=1666597:date=Jan 7 2008, 07:25 PM:name=vulpesvelox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vulpesvelox @ Jan 7 2008, 07:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666597"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if the commander had a graph with a slider on it, and he could control the percentage of Assault or Defense class marines. When faced with a strong onslaught, he could slide it to the defense end of the spectrum, for more HA type players to respawn. In times of weakened opposition could throw it on assault for more JP or whatnot. Wise commanders of strong teams could leave it in the middle for the marines to utilize fire and maneuver? Maybe start off with only being able to go all assault/defense, more res, the more available ratios and more upgrades for each side of that chart.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

very interesting <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

i can see that working well for the alien team too - sliders for speed vs armour, bite speed vs damage etc

corpsman

<!--quoteo(post=1666585:date=Jan 7 2008, 01:09 AM:name=Buzzou)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ Jan 7 2008, 01:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666585"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->they are'nt going to include "classes" like TF2 or DoD into NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Where did you read this?

Buzzou

<!--quoteo(post=1666664:date=Jan 7 2008, 08:39 PM:name=corpsman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(corpsman @ Jan 7 2008, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666664"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Where did you read this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm 99.99% sure thats going to be the case. it was in a devolopment blog, or one of the podcasts, or even a post by max or charlie in a thread... cant really remember. can anyone else confirm it, and maybe even provide a link?

locallyunscene

I think it was in the podcast discussing the "TF2 Commander" that they mentioned a class system being different from what they wanted to do or something to that effect. I don't think that really rules out a class system since the kharaa seem to be getting a stronger defined class system.

Harimau

hmm? kharaa seem to be getting a stronger defined class system? how so?

yeah, I don't know this for sure, but i think, and the general consensus is that, there aren't going to be 'classes' for marines in NS2.

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1666749:date=Jan 8 2008, 09:14 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 8 2008, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666749"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hmm? kharaa seem to be getting a stronger defined class system? how so?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that was in the same podcast but I could be wrong. They talked about the skulk as a scout. Also, if you look at the progression of ability balancing in NS1 we saw bilebomb stop doing damage to marines and move from fade to gorge. Primal scream was moved from onos to lerk. The lerk and gorge became more pure support classes and the onos and fade became more pure attack classes.

CanadianWolverine

Would it make anyone feel better if we didn't call it "classes", how about roles or play styles?

Face it, for those of you uncomfortable with classes, I suggest you steer away from those objects the Commander drops, you wouldn't want you to become a heavy weapons or close quarters specialist. Yes, note the intended sarcasm.

I know there are those of us who like to play certain ways, some like to bunny hop, some like to pistol snipe, some enjoy ninja'ing a hive for the Commander, others having fun when they do room entry with a shotgun, and other still love helping other marines out with the welder ... and so on. I think a strong NS2 game would try to give substance to each of a players preferred play styles, so that they can be a part of the team and have lots of fun doing it.

NS1 uses life forms and equipment to make classes happen, why not just continue that trend? We don't have to be like TF2, but we can learn from their success.

Kissamies

I wouldn't like strict classes for marines. Their roles are more defined by the combination of equipment they carry and their individual skills. However, the concept of classes could be used for commander for macros to drop a pile of certain equipment. HMG, heavy armor and welder for a "Heavy," for example.

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1666768:date=Jan 8 2008, 12:55 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Jan 8 2008, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Would it make anyone feel better if we didn't call it "classes", how about roles or play styles?

Face it, for those of you uncomfortable with classes, I suggest you steer away from those objects the Commander drops, you wouldn't want you to become a heavy weapons or close quarters specialist. Yes, note the intended sarcasm.

I know there are those of us who like to play certain ways, some like to bunny hop, some like to pistol snipe, some enjoy ninja'ing a hive for the Commander, others having fun when they do room entry with a shotgun, and other still love helping other marines out with the welder ... and so on. I think a strong NS2 game would try to give substance to each of a players preferred play styles, so that they can be a part of the team and have lots of fun doing it.

NS1 uses life forms and equipment to make classes happen, why not just continue that trend? We don't have to be like TF2, but we can learn from their success.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Calling equip drops classes is stretching it. Classes tend to mean distinct bodies, equipment drop is modifying only slightly. Yes the end result could be modified fairly heavily from the first equip drop but there's no distinct <i>class</i> line. Is an awp-deagle T a different class from AK-dual T? No, because that's an equipment system and not a class system. NS marines are currently an equip system.

For the record I tend to call Kharaa lifeforms, but since this is a discussion about classes makes sense to call the Kharaa lifeforms classes since they are.

CanadianWolverine

<!--quoteo(post=1666774:date=Jan 8 2008, 01:36 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 8 2008, 01:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666774"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Calling equip drops classes is stretching it. Classes tend to mean distinct bodies, equipment drop is modifying only slightly. Yes the end result could be modified fairly heavily from the first equip drop but there's no distinct <i>class</i> line. Is an awp-deagle T a different class from AK-dual T? No, because that's an equipment system and not a class system. NS marines are currently an equip system.

For the record I tend to call Kharaa lifeforms, but since this is a discussion about classes makes sense to call the Kharaa lifeforms classes since they are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Oh ok, hmm, I guess I always thought of classes as just another word for a roles within a team, and those roles seem to be determined by the type of equipment is being used, but you are right, the specialist abilities are much more narrow within a class but I thought that is what the Marine Heavy or Jet pack were like, very specialist.

But you are so right, it does offer far more flexibility than a class system. In which case, I don't want classes for Marines, I do want roles though. I would love for there to be enough flexibility in the system for a Marine or Kharaa to equip themselves with the right upgrades to become specialist roles that they have fun playing.

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1666819:date=Jan 8 2008, 09:34 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Jan 8 2008, 09:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666819"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In which case, I don't want classes for Marines, I do want roles though. I would love for there to be enough flexibility in the system for a Marine or Kharaa to equip themselves with the right upgrades to become specialist roles that they have fun playing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, roles is a good word. I'm not against templates as long as they don't have any special "class" characteristics. For example, the heavy template could be hmg-welder-pistol-armor but there's no reason that heavy would be restricted from carrying a gl or shotgun or flamethrower. SO I think you're right and I just got hung up on the word class, when we're really talking about roles.