Dynamic Infestation again...
Price
Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
<div class="IPBDescription">save aliens?</div>I realy don't know if that was already said but what do you think if:
An alien (gorge, skulk, lerk but not onos fade and higher) call for help and if they are stand on the dynamic infestation,
the dynamic infestation will go up(takes 2 seconds to grow) and the alien get in this thing for example 10 seconds.
after he is out of this, he must wait 1 minute to do it again and the DI will removed.
Oh man my english is bad, here is a picture what i mean.
<img src="http://i12.tinypic.com/8bzasyt.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
An alien (gorge, skulk, lerk but not onos fade and higher) call for help and if they are stand on the dynamic infestation,
the dynamic infestation will go up(takes 2 seconds to grow) and the alien get in this thing for example 10 seconds.
after he is out of this, he must wait 1 minute to do it again and the DI will removed.
Oh man my english is bad, here is a picture what i mean.
<img src="http://i12.tinypic.com/8bzasyt.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Comments
i dont know if that particular situation would be very beneficial to the alien, it may protect him a bit from bullets, but not flamethrowers or nades...
either way i hope there is some sort of similar interaction with aliens and the dynamic infestation...
i dont know if that particular situation would be very beneficial to the alien, it may protect him a bit from bullets, but not flamethrowers or nades...
either way i hope there is some sort of similar interaction with aliens and the dynamic infestation...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. Interaction with infestation for the Kharaa is as important as a Marine interacting with their nanites. A Kharaa should feel at home (and Marine should feel nervous) on the infestation.
i dont know if that particular situation would be very beneficial to the alien, it may protect him a bit from bullets, but not flamethrowers or nades...
either way i hope there is some sort of similar interaction with aliens and the dynamic infestation...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
jes i hope so
but
a bit from bullets?
why do i make it when it not do a big boost?
run away would be better
i like this idea really
maybe youre absolutly hided in the DI
that you dont make this "hill"
and i think its would be a great trap
"a rine group walk in a room and suddenly come lerks and skulks aut of the DI"
like the burrow abilites for zerg in starcraft
(its hold forever, buts its boring to wait)
But I don't understand the "help"ing bit?
you select in the popup menu-voices-help/heal me
EDIT:
no not like auto med
its like "weld me" for youre teammates
he suggest that ,when you on the DI use this comand you .... "his suggest"
I like this idea. One thing about territory is that spreading it is going to have to be aggressive. Otherwise people will just camp on their territory waiting for the other team to come across. I like the idea of bonuses on territory, but maybe it shouldn't be bonuses or advantages so much as tradeoffs. For example(and this is just off the top of my head) on marine controlled territory marines could have increased defense but limited offense and vise versa on alien controlled territory. Something like all the nanties in the air slow down and reduce the damage of attacks. Once on kharaa territory bullets do increased damage but so do kharaa attacks.
Of course, but what fun would it be to talk about then? DI is exciting because of all the possibilities. We're just trying to refine those possibilities until they're workable even though most of them will probably never go in, but that's not news to most people.
I agree locallyunscene, I've been around a few gaming development forums and it is unreasonable to expect any idea to make it into the final product, the Devs have the final word as they are the ones who stand to gain or lose financially from it. Speaking for myself, I just enjoy talking about games, so discussing possibilities in gaming can be fun if you are willing to accept others have cool ideas and good points as well, then compromise on what makes a good game. I wouldn't be surprised, and judging by the pod casts they do, that the Devs have conversations much like we do in these forums only they get to factor in stuff like "What is this going to cost me?" as well. If I could look at their financial books and had a decent amount understanding bookkeeping and accounting in terms of game software development cycles, I would try to factor that into my discussions as well, but seeing as I don't, I leave that up to the Devs to evaluate on their own standards. In the end, I think we want the service and the product it produces that the Devs offer, so we freely offer up our ideas for them to use for their own financial gain.
I think of this like when customer is describing to me what they would like me to work my skills in carpentry on, even though it is their ideas, I must satisfy that with what I know of building a house so that their ideas will actually work, possibly even improve on those ideas beyond what even they thought could be possible, for which if implemented well I will receive their eternal gratitude ... if the bill stays to what we originally agreed. Sometimes customers expect more than what can be reasonably expected for the contract price too, so they need to be told from the outset that they should not expect some ideas to work out unless they are willing to pay for them.
For example, you might be able to build certain specialised structures on infested strips/areas, eg. tubes, or traps, or the 'help' thing that was discussed.
However, DI doesn't mean that the alien team has 'captured' certain areas. Alien (and neutral, and marine) territory would likely have to be a <b>separate</b> feature that would be added in, that would ideally be linked to DI, yet wouldn't be DI itself. Do you understand what I'm saying?
edit: I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see territories. I might, depending how it was implemented. I'm just saying that that's a new feature that would (probably, I speculate) have to be added in, on top of DI. (There's also the concern of how territories would work in a 3D environment.)
I think it is though. If DI doesn't do something beyond look pretty then, no, it doesn't really denote kharaa territory. But if it's just eye candy there's no reason to spread it/burn it back then it's completely a non-issue and really not even a part of the game. As long as it does <i>something</i> whether it's make kharaa travel faster, prevent marine building, or hide lifeforms then it is kharaa territory.
Territory bonuses and such, that's more about what 'area' you happen to be in at a certain time. That's something else entirely.
Territory bonuses and such, that's more about what 'area' you happen to be in at a certain time. That's something else entirely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm confused. I thought that the following were territorial bonuses: "You can place specialised structures / do certain things while on/near Infestation. eg. tubes, traps; getting 'help' or 'cover'." Also, for some reason, I find myself remembering the enjoyable experiences I had in Dungeon Keeper 2...
Are you at ease now?
Are you at ease now?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, no, that does not put my mind at ease. Is there not a way to put it better? Are there other details that could have been overlooked? Are you saying you don't know how to explain it better? It does not come across as clear cut as you would like with "They aren't".
It seems to me that anything tied to the existence of the Dynamic Infestation is a bonus of the Dynamic Infestation. If something operates independent of the DI, then I can see it, but I could have sworn your examples hinged on a DI requirement. If the DI has no bonuses (but we know they are at least trying to give it bonuses with Kharaa Tunnels and lighting changes) then it is not territory and merely a graphic. Structures denote control of an area and thus that would be that side's territory. If the DI acts like a great big blanket structure because it has substance and is a pre-requisite to other structures, it denotes territory.
Specialised structures for special locations, it's as simple as that; it's not territory.
You don't really understand though, do you? The bonuses that people have been suggesting are stealth bonuses, speed bonuses, damage bonuses, health regen bonuses, etc. Do you understand now? That is not something that would be directly tied to DI. DI is not necessarily territory. Territory bonuses imply you have to be <b>within a certain territory</b> to gain those bonuses, that is, <b>within a certain area</b> - and THAT is not covered by DI.
You're using the term 'territory' in the broadest sense possible - <b>anything</b> you hold is your territory; I'm thinking of it as a territory system, the way it would be implemented as a core part of the gameplay - which is more relevant to this discussion.
So then you are thinking of a territory system where it is more like current chambers of NS1? Where you have to be witihin a certain distance to a Defense Chamber or Sensory Chamber to gain extra healing or cloak?
The thing is, if DI is required by Kharaa structures in NS2 or if there is some other reason that a Marine might want to burn the stuff away with a flamethrower, it does become something that you have to be in a certain area to gain something from it. Other wise, why would a Marine ever bother to destroy the stuff if its harmless and does not affect the game play in any way?
Yes, in NS1, I would say that a Kharaa Resource node is Kharaa territory, until such time as it is destroyed by Marine's to deny the Kharaa those resources.
I'm curious, does this mean you don't want DI to convey bonuses or be a requirement for other structures? Or is this just some confusion over a definition of what a Territory System is?
For clarification sake, my definition of Territory System is anything placed to a fixed point that is flagged for a certain team.
That means that in NS1, I consider any Kharaa structure to denote Kharaa territory and any Marine structure to denote Marine territory. If the sides could place objects that do nothing for both sides or benefit both sides equally, I would consider that neutral territory.
allow me to quote myself:
<!--quoteo(post=1667728:date=Jan 17 2008, 11:32 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 17 2008, 11:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->edit: I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see territories. I might, depending how it was implemented. I'm just saying that that's a new feature that would (probably, I speculate) have to be added in, on top of DI. (There's also the concern of how territories would work in a 3D environment.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm <b>only</b> saying, DI is not necessarily analagous to a Territory System. We don't know for sure yet. YOU chose to disagree with me.
I'm <b>only</b> saying, DI is not necessarily analagous to a Territory System. <b>We don't know for sure yet.</b> YOU chose to disagree with me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with that, we don't know for sure yet if the DI has substance with regards to the game play or if it is just for show.
I'm not trying to disagree with you, I am trying to understand your point with clarity.
Hmm, just need to review here for second...
Ahh, ok, so DI being a part of a Territory System, such as seen in other games like CoH, is yet to be determined or if it just amounts to something independent of impact on other game mechanics?
Do I understand it yet or am I still searching for the intended meaning? I still feel like I am missing something, like why would it would be important to distinguish Territory System from DI? Or would this be like how creep spreads from Zerg buildings in Starcraft but you don't kill the creep, you kill the structures, then the creep dies? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
I don't know Starcraft.
I don't know Starcraft.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh, that's pretty clear cut. When we say CoH-vein, we are talking about how it provides resources by supply lines, right?
it's an area.
an AREA.
how can i possibly put it more simply than that?
I'm sorry, I'm not picturing it. An "area" is really vague: is that a room, a hallway, a resnode, a spawn point, a grouping of rooms, the whole map?
If Kharaa hide in the Infestation, that would be a reason to burn it, right? But the Kharaa can't hide like that without the infestation. So, where they can hide in the infestation, that is their territory, and where they can't hide in it isn't - or is that somehow separate?
If we can't even agree on the definition of territory within the game, how would we even figure out a system for it?
In fact, you have got it. Yes. It's "space" or an "area in space". Don't you know basic mathematics/geometry? What's the definition of "area"? What's the definition of "space"?
It could be pretty simple and essentially you just take over entire rooms or hallways, you receive upgrades or benefits while in those rooms or territories.
Or it could be less simple and there'd be a sort of 'line' dividing your and your enemy's territory - each of the teams is in possession of an area. Again, you would gain upgrades or benefits while you or your structures were in your territory.
That's a <b>territory system</b>.
What you're talking about is simply "territory" in the broadest sense of the word - whatever you possess, is your territory - it isn't a <b>territory system</b>.
Dynamic Infestation - may just be something artistic, perhaps with a little added functionality - like the aforementioned traps, tubes, hiding spots, etc. There still hasn't been any hint as to how dynamic infestation would spread, except that it'd be 'automatic' - would you capture points and the DI would spread? how fast does/can the DI spread? is the speed variable? will DI 'spread out' or grow in 'lines'? would DI ever 'retreat' of its own volition?
What you're talking about is simply "territory" in the broadest sense of the word - whatever you possess, is your territory - it isn't a <b>territory system</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I said before, I'd say DI is a territory system as long as it gives some advantage(<i>any</i> advantage) to the Kharaa. I'd bet you a case of beer(assuming you're 21 or in another country) that if DI didn't give the Kharaa any advantage and was just eye candy, it wouldn't go in NS2. A territory system doesn't have to look like Battlefield's of Call of Duty's to be a territory system.
It would still go in even if it were just eye candy. Actually it's more along the lines of the idea of a 'dynamic environment'. If aliens have automatic Dynamic Infestation, marines also have a counterpart - manual Welding. DI hits a room, the lights go out, doors and other electronics might fail. Marines might weld a door shut, or any number of things. I think it was discussed that DI would spread based on the flow of the game - it was never said that it was anything like a territory system, or that it would give area bonuses.
So DI isn't necessarily a territory system. A big reason is that it ISN'T going to 'blanket' an area, so it doesn't give territory/area-specific bonuses - the kind of system I'm talking about.
You could have a room-to-room territory system, perhaps if you 'capture' a room (or perhaps DI spreads the length of a room), the alien team has 'captured' that area, and they gain area bonuses.
Or you could have a point-capture system, if you capture a point, it extends the area of influence (pushes your 'line' further forward), and if you were in that area, you'd gain bonuses.
I think in either system, DI would be relatively independent, and only spread within your areas of influence, perhaps allow for faster capture and better defense.
You're repeating the same mistake that CaWolf is: thinking that any system that has some semblance of "territory" in the broadest sense of the word - is a territory system, the likes of what I'm talking about.
I guess you're really just arguing about the name. Yes, capturing resource nodes is akin to 'extending your territory', but it isn't a 'territory system'. I'm discussing the actual system that allows for area bonuses (aliens may gain greater stealth, silence, etc.) - which isn't necessarily covered by DI - but might be a nice addition in NS2; or it might break it.
Maybe I should just call it 'area bonus' system, but then that doesn't cover the idea of capturing territory.
If you can't think of territory system in a broader sense than existing WWII games I wouldn't call that my or Canadian's mistake. I can agree to disagree on this one.
<!--quoteo(post=1667530:date=Jan 16 2008, 01:14 AM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 16 2008, 01:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667530"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the idea of bonuses on territory, but maybe it shouldn't be bonuses or advantages so much as tradeoffs. For example(and this is just off the top of my head) on marine controlled territory marines could have increased defense but limited offense and vise versa on alien controlled territory. Something like all the nanties in the air slow down and reduce the damage of attacks. Once on kharaa territory bullets do increased damage but so do kharaa attacks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1667599:date=Jan 16 2008, 03:38 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 16 2008, 03:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667599"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->we're not quite sure yet if DI is analagous to 'alien territory' though, <i>or simply a visual effect - or facilitating 'tubes' and such,</i> so 'territory bonuses' might not even be able to go in<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's quite obvious, then, what it is I'm talking about, isn't it?