Humans are just animals?

Faskalia · February 2008

<div class="IPBDescription">An ofshoot of Dread's thread</div>Hmm I actually wanted to create a discussion thread about the following youtube video and then conclude with an answer to your question: "Are humans just animals?"

I strongly believe in Descartes. Humans are evil, dumb and animals. All these 3 points can be clearly seen in the following video.

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Being an animal: Obviously the officers do not step in to protect the weak, they do not listen to their own moral instead they just comply with the group.

Being evil: They gain pleasure from the victims suffering (just look at those faces)

Being stupid: They provide evidence against them by filming the incident themselves oO ->Retards

But even if you look at it from a more biological POV. We share 95% of our genome with Chimpanzees and consider them animals. Pigs are so close to us, that we can use their organs as spares for our own! We have been, are and will be hairless monkeys for quite some time!

Scythe · February 2008

Thousands of strip searches are performed every day all over the world. They're a regrettable necessity. I would say that the woman being strip searched there exhibited more animalistic traits than the officers who were performing the search did. Screaming and hollering like a wounded cow, rather than realising that what was taking place was a normal and legal procedure.

The male officers wouldn't've been there if she didn't need holding down. If she'd made the intellectual realisation that it was necessary it would've been a lot easier for all concerned. But no, she resorted to base instincts of thrashing and screeching like an animal. GG.

--Scythe--

P.S. And who do you think is taking that video? A secret camera planted by the media? No, it's held by an officer of the law to help out in the event of her trying to sue the police. To provide accountability for those involved, so it's not just her word against the officer's.

Thansal · February 2008

Honestly, it doesn't sound like a strip search, it sounds like they were worried she was going to harm herself.

This wasn't torture for pleasure (we have pictures and videos of that from abu ghraib). The looks on their faces are honestly that of strain and lack of expression, not enjoyment.

Honestly, there are just no facts here, just testimony by the 'wounded' party, the 'offender' denying them, and some video shown with out any context, and there we only have around 30 seconds of video tbh, just repeated a number of times..

There is a big chance that something IS wrong here, but there is also a big chance that this is another case of some one doing something dumb with police around and catching a world of ###### for it. WE don't know if the lady in question was simply attacked, then abused by police (as she claims) or if she started something, is hopped up on a mixture of drugs, attempted to fight with the cops from the get go, etc etc.

All this shows is an unpleasant looking situation, nothing necessarily 'evil', and possibly just some one doing everything wrong with cops around.

Or it could be cops abusing their power horribly.

We. Don't. Know.

Side note:
BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

go look at the blog that this was originally posted to.

lol.

White power, Zionist conspiracy ftl.

More side notes.

Video was posted 4 months ago, if any one can pull up any other facts on the case I will be shocked and awed. Why?
Simple, things like this show up on the news so that they can go "we are the ONLY STATION that is bringing you this SHOCKING story with this EXCLUSIVE footage that YOU! MUST! WATCH!".
They do this through out the entire newscast so that you will stay till the last item (unless this was the initial hook), and they milk it for one or 2 days, and then they drop it because no one really cares about what happened to the women/cops, they just tuned in so that they could feel good about them selves when they watched and were MORALLY OUTRAGED!.

I mean, seriously, the second day's news on it is 100% what was in the first day, just rehashed.

So I guess this IS a good example of why humans are just dumb animals that are easily controlled and swayed.

baaaaaaaaaaaa.

[/rant]

aeroripper · February 2008

Yeah I would definitely want to know more about everything that was going on before I put full judgment on it. It doesn't help that the cop car's camera was turned off turning the initial response that could give some insight on the exchange with her.

I'd be interesting to see all the evidence in the court room, rather than solely this video. Also, got to love youtube comments, its like all the dumb people from Jerry Springer combined.

Thansal · February 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aeroripper @ Feb 4 2008, 01:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1669473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah I would definitely want to know more about everything that was going on before I put full judgment on it. It doesn't help that the cop car's camera was turned off turning the initial response that could give some insight on the exchange with her.

I'd be interesting to see all the evidence in the court room, rather than solely this video. Also, got to love youtube comments, its like all the dumb people from Jerry Springer combined.</div>
They ARE the dumb people on Jerry Springer, aka the lowest common denominator.

And yah, I just wanted to toss out, the evidence as presented is rather damning, just that it is really obvious that we don't have ALL the facts, as some one has to be holding something back or not telling the truth. (automatically assuming the cops are the lairs is just as bad as assuming the other people are in my mind).

Faskalia · February 2008

Whoo, I never said that I presented any evidence or facts.

All I said was: Here is this youtube video, which shows humans behaving like animals.

Lets clarify a few things:
In this video you can see/hear the following:
A woman who is begging/crying to be left alone.
Several men and woman who hold the woman down and undress her.

A news-reporter taking sides (kinda obvious).
---

We do not see what lead to this situation, but we are told by the reporter. So, if I trust public media in general I can safely assume that the actions performed by the police officers were nothing short of torture. And who is to blame them? The big buys (read: military, fbi, cia etc.) have been utilizing torture for decades. So it is rather understandable that "Jonny has a badge" also wants to use torture to fight terrorism.

---

Thansal · February 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Feb 4 2008, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1669513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>We do not see what lead to this situation, but we are told by the reporter. So, if I trust public media in general I can safely assume that the actions performed by the police officers were nothing short of torture.</div>
See, that is the problem.

I don't trust public media at all.

They are there to make a buck just like you an I are, and their way to making a buck is to show and tell people what they want to hear.

The video (what we saw of it) shows some one who is obviously distraught being forcibly striped by police.

We do not see what lead to this situation, but we are told by the <b>victim</b>. So, if I trust <b>the police</b> in general I can safely assume that the actions performed by the police officers were nothing short of <b>reasonable</b>.

All I was pointing out is that we honestly know nothing of the situation out side of the inflammatory video and the testimony of the victim (which the sheriff's office refutes).

so again, this was posted to youtube 4 months ago. Something more should have come of this by now, right? Well, I can't find any thing on in in the news (via google), and you would think that something like this would STAY in the news, right?

Well, they don't have any more video, they possibly have a trial, and that is it now, so that doesn't make very good news, so they are not going to show it.

grumble grumble
sheeple
grumble.

(I really am having issues with the News services atm, especially with the coverage of the election, so I am slightly biased <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)

the_x5 · February 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Feb 4 2008, 11:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1669514"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>See, that is the problem.

I don't trust public media at all.</div>
I don't distrust the public media per se but I don't trust it fully either. Especially when it is the internet...

Here are two examples I personally know people at work believed just recently fully until I proved them wrong today
ie: False internet rumors about Obama not saluting the American flag and having to be sworn-in on the Qurâ€™Än
ie: False internet rumors that Romney was having a set time table for pulling out of Iraq
ie: Second Life must be popular new MMORPG (not really)

There's so much mistranslated, incomplete, faulty, incorrect, or even intentionally misleading news and rumors in various communication mediums that <i>you </i>are a <i>naÃ¯ve fool </i>for taking everything you hear as truth.

It is understanding though that we tend to fall into the trap trusting some sources implicitly. It is easier and more relaxing to trust than to distrust and critique constantly. I'm not saying we should be paranoid (it's a balance thing), but I am saying that the majority seems to be a bit too far on the side of trusting everything they hear.

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><b>Remember your source's relability!</b></span>
That goes for all of us here, I'm not perfect either.

Now, Faskalia I have to admit Thansal is making a better arguement here than you are. You said, "Whoo, I never said that I presented any evidence or facts," but you didn't say you weren't either. Take into context my points about many people taking what they see as literal if it's on the net and you tell me what the problem with that it is.

...and shifting back to the central topic here:

I agree that humans are animals catagorically, yes.
I disagree though that animal behavior equates with evil or stupid actions.

In fact I find that rather insulting and out of charater of you, Faskalia, to lure people in with that topic title's question and then essentially pass highfalutin judge both humanity and animals as evil and stupid. It makes this topic turn from a discussionary question to a discussionary rant.

Think about your implications of that connotation for a sec' will ya? Are all animals evil and stupid? If I look up the general definition for an animal from a reputable source do I get those two words anywhere? Nope. Are all humans innately evil? Your opinion is yes they are, but I can only give a jibing sigh at the apathy of such a stance. I have seen far, far more cruel and evil things than that in this world and in my dreams but yet my faith in humanity doesn't fail.

Two seperate issues here that I will share my opinions on now:

First, humans are not evil. Evil actions are evil. Can a human be evil or good by their actions? Isn't morality technically subjective anyways? Yes and yes. BUT, they can also be turned can they not? Furthermore can a being be pure evil or pure good? Certainly not, because no action can be labeled as pure good or pure evil. There is no such thing as 100%. But alas this is something one cannot teach. A child's mind cannot make such distinction from the boolean of right and wrong, but surely an intellectual such as yourself Faskalia can see that all actions are multidimensional in many ways? In intent, in choice, in will, in power, in love, in hate, in care, in apathy, in fear, in hope, in time... There are endless ways even with the limited English language to describe any action? What is good vs. evil but another dimensional balance by which the field of the fifth universal force flows? A second, a minute, and a hour are all measurements of an abstract called time. Time's effects are real on the universe's energy and matter but what is a second really but an abritrary vocabulary term and measurement unit? I may be loosing the audience if I don't keep this simple, but do you see why it is flawed logically (gramatically?) to say it like that?

Second, I've seen both tremendously evil, hateful, or selfish actions and tremendously good, loving, or brave actions come out of humans. Yet it leads me to believe that the human nature is balanced -- not distopian or utopian, and not statically so; but varying constantly in different degrees always. Corruption, temptation, apathy, and unfair judgement are far more damaging factors degrading humanity in my mind. Evil actions don't often spawn from forces like hope, understanding, respect, or love. If you ask me ladies and gents, it sounds like to me that ol' Faskalia here is struggling with seeing the good in humanity, loosing his faith in it and thus feeling the need to polarize so he can make it easy to pass judgement. I wonder what it is about himself that Faskalia doesn't like, or if he is doing the opposite and trying to make his ego superior... Ok too much psychoanalysis! lol --and now back to the main feature...

And as far as stupidity, well yeah I like to joke about humans being stupid all the time. (anybody who deals with software or the public like working at retail knows this) Again though aren't you saying that the actions this person takes (some more frequently than others) is stupid?

Faskalia · February 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Feb 5 2008, 12:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1669573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>In fact I find that rather insulting and out of charater of you, Faskalia, to lure people in with that topic title's question and then essentially pass highfalutin judge both humanity and animals as evil and stupid. It makes this topic turn from a discussionary question to a discussionary rant.</div>

It's just my opinion.

But hey, why not just ask the people on the street which traits set humans apart from animals. Things you are gonna hear when asking this question: "Ability to heavily shape our environment. Ability to form societies that are completely different from each other! Lot will also just say: Civilisation. Ability to love/hate. Believe in God. Ability to plan ahead. Mourning of the dead. Ability to wage war."

Now the problem that I see with these typical answers is that they are either traits that are present in animals, but not as strong (ability to shape the environment) or that we simply cannot prove that those traits are only present in humans. Even worse, some of these traits are not present in every human (atheism).

So why do people thing that they are different from animals?
In fact, I believe that a dog sees and knows that he is not a mouse the same way a humans thinks that he is not an animal. Most people need to think that they are not animals, cause it causes a sense of superiority which is needed to justify our actions against nature and other beings.

What did Hitler do to make sure that the Jews were not worthy of staying alive? He invented a new step of evolution. Animal->Human->Aryan
Wow great, we can enslave and dispose of Jews cause they are not Aryan and thus not on the same step as the rest.

What is happening in every African civil war? Each side claims that they are "more human" than the other side thus justifying their actions. It's basically the same. And if it works on a humans killing humans level, it works even better on a humans killing animals level...

Thus said: Humans are not animals by definition! We are not animals cause we are obviously superior to them and thus it would be wrong to share the same evolutionary branch with them. We need our own branch! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />

lolfighter · February 2008

A quick note on the topic: Faskalia's post was originally in <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103748" target="_blank">this thread,</a> but I asked Scythe to move it and he agreed, hence the current title. It's not Faskalia's pick.

Faskalia · February 2008

Maybe we should rename the topic into something like:

Are the dumb and uneducated just begging to become policemen/women or does the police just lack common sense?
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Align · February 2008

Didn't really look at the video, but I'll make a general comment that being passive when something nasty is done isn't evil - unless you caused it in the first place-, but rather instinct of self-preservation (or cowardice depending on how you spin it).

And I'll have you know I've met plenty of nice animals that weren't as nasty as some humans are at all.

Humans are just animals?

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